Rocky Landing

It's going to have to be!

... or when not to quote someone and reply to their post...

I don't know if there will be an upgrade available that we can afford, and I don't know where Beane/McD consider it on the priority list. But there's a whole lotta hope in your post. All those guys you mentioned have lined up on the outside at some point in there careers, but I don't think you can consider a single one of them a primary X receiver, or #1WR. Maybe Coleman becomes that? I hate to hang my hat on a rookie, but that's probably where we are.

"A receiver positioned farthest from center on their side of the field which takes their stance on the line of scrimmage, necessary to meet the rule requiring seven players to be lined up on it at the snap."......... That's a cut and paste from Google. There's plenty of literature on what makes the position unique, and it's relevance to offensive, and defensive schemes. For the Bills, and Josh Allen, after the loss of Diggs, and Davis it should be a priority. I get that he's been reliable in the post season, and that's not nothing, but what skill set does he have that is unique to the other 6'4" WRs on the roster?

You're not really saying anything I'm disagreeing with. Neither are you answering anything I brought up. IMO, his high drop rate, low catch%, and low QR rating when targeted pushes him down the depth chart. And for context, Mack Hollins had a slightly better drop rate, better catch%, and a higher QB rating when targeted (with a far worse QB), and he plays special teams. The perspective that I disagree with on this thread is the assumption that MVS is a near lock, or that he offers something unique to this roster. I just don't think he does.

Why would you make that assumption??? (That's a rhetorical question. I'm aware you're trolling.)

I'm really not sure that the dimension he adds downfield is all that different from the other five 6'4" WRs we have on the roster. Mack Hollins is also a proven blocker, and a special teams standout. And while MVS didn't have a dropped pass in his 8 receptions in the postseason, I worry that may just be a function of a small sample size. It certainly doesn't explain a 7% drop rate, or a 50% catch rate in the regular season. Some of those drops were on short passes. At least one of those drops that I recently watched on an All-22 was on a check down. That's concerning! I think MVS has a good chance to make the 53, but if those very real issues persist, there's going to be a lot of second-guessing going on. And with Knox, and Kincaid, and all the predictions of two TE sets (including from the HC, and GM), how many 6'4" WRs do we really need? What we do need, is an X receiver.

Written without a shred of irony...

One could also argue that McDaniel was given much longer reins, and Flores had been set up to fail.

To be fair, "congrats to all the wimmins get'n a degree today... now git in the kitchen and make your man a sammich..." is probably not the best way to kick off a commencement speech... But, I'm with WEO. As my own snarky comment might suggest, this thread has nowhere good to go...

I think Tua did enough to get a contract, and stay in Miami. It may not be the contract he wants, but I don't know if he'd be a better fit anywhere else in the league, given what is known about him. Tua had a successful(ish) season because Mike McDaniel engineered a scheme that played to his strengths, and minimized his weaknesses. Tua held the ball for the shortest average time than any other QB in the league, and was able to throw with impressive accuracy, considering how quickly the ball had to come out. Tua thrived early in the season with quick timing plays in which the receiver had to be on their routes at precisely the right time. The speed of their receivers made this possible. But McDermott figured this out the first game we played them (week four, iirc), and it was their first loss of the season. McD figured out that none of his defenders needed to match Hill, or Waddle's speed-- they just had to throw them off their timing. Bump them at the LOS, delay their routes, and the scheme fell apart. Because as accurate as Tua is, his ability to function off-script was abysmal, and when he felt pressure from large individuals bearing down on him, he folded like a lawn chair. It remains to be seen if the Dolphins did enough in the offseason to improve their O-line, so that Tua could have some chance of extending plays. He needs time without pressure to get that done. I'm very happy the Bills visit Miami in week two (and at night). If it takes time for their O-line to gel, Tua will have a rough start to the season, IMO.

MVS is getting a lot of props on here for being "playoff proven," or whatever-- meaning he didn't drop the ball during the playoffs, and made some nice plays. But, to my mind, that really doesn't discount the fact that he had an egregious drop problem during the regular season. Those happened, and some of the drops I've watched have been terrible. And yeah, he's not fast, and doesn't cut well. But he does have upside. He blocks well, he high-points well, and he runs a nice fade. Right now, the Bills have six WRs at 6'4", with similar traits, and if any other one of them had been on the Chiefs instead of MVS (with the hopeful exception of Coleman), I would imagine they would have been used in much the same way-- stretch the field ahead of Kelce, throw down some blocks, and target them just enough to keep defenses honest. Frankly, I don't see MVS as any kind of reliable answer to our X receiver problem. I think he's looking at a five-way competition with Claypool, Hollins, Shavers, and Shorter, and I'm not sure he's at the top of that list. His biggest advantage is that he caught some passes in the post season, and that he played for the chiefs, but I certainly don't think he's a lock. Hollins might have a leg up on him for special teams, and Claypool, reclamation project though he may be, might have more upside. They probably both have more reliable hands than MVS.

A little separation cures that...

Our D-Line is too thin. I doubt this is going to be a year with a heavy rotation. There's going to be plenty of opportunity for Groot, and Oliver. Dpoy would still certainly be a long shot tho...

I've never really understood the contract strategy of "holding out" during voluntary workouts? It seems counterproductive for both sides of the negotiation. It's not like they don't know who Tua is, or what his capabilities are. And I have to believe that there's value in the franchise QB attending these things, if for no other reason than to meet the rookies, and establish his leadership. But, it feels like for a player to hold out diminishes their value, if even slightly. Wouldn't showing up to voluntary team activities send a better message than holding out? Just my 2¢, but what do I know?

I’m saying get Clayton on the 53, play him in those dreadful Jumbo packages they’re addicted to, and have him declare as an eligible receiver. Let’s see how many defenders he can flatten.

That is incorrect. The context of "alligator arms" started with the post above from GunnerBill, who has apparently been hacked by BADOLBILZ.

Is it NextGen Stats that has the metrics for catch radius? It’d be interesting to know what Shakir’s stat is in that regard, because it’s not just a measurement of his arm length. I’ll guess his catch radius is actually pretty good for his height.

Before this week, I really didn't know a lot about Marquez Valdes-Scantling. So, I decided to get in little tape on this guy, and I went to the all-22 of weeks 7, 12, and 13 of the ’23 season (Chargers, Packers, and Bills, respectively) because those were the games that MVS had the most targets (mostly focused on week 7). And I gotta say… he looked rather pedestrian. But it wasn’t all bad news (at least from my eye. I'll admit, I’m not the most knowledgeable fan on this site— but I’m not the least, either…) Here’s what I saw: The Cons: The drops are a real issue. I was assuming, as some others on here were, that his high drop rate was a function of his deeper routes, and sure… not all drops are created equal. But, that really didn't seem to be the case. His drops were reminiscent of the drops that Isaiah McKenzie used to make (a Bills player whom I loved, btw). Bone-headed stuff. This is easily the biggest knock on the guy, IMO. He does not have reliable hands. His burst off the line is slow, and he does not have quick acceleration. Once he gets going, he can build up some speed— not uncommon for a big guy— but it makes separation in shorter routes an issue. He does not cut well, even for someone his size. Obviously, that makes separation an issue, as well. The Good: He knows how to use his big body. He seemed utterly un-phased by press man, lack of burst notwithstanding. He can brush off a bump at the LOS with ease. He’s a very, very good blocker. In fact, one of the primary ways the Chefs seemed to use him was to stretch the field ahead of Kelce, and then block for him to get Kelce those YACs. Through much of those games, with several of Kielce’s receptions, #11 was about 5-7 yards ahead of him, drawing coverage. IMO, if he makes the 53, this will be the biggest reason. He knows how to run a fade. It’s the strength of his game. And that works well for the Bills, since Josh Allen knows how to throw one. He knows how to extend a play. That’s important if Mahomes is your QB. And, obviously, it’s important if Josh Allen is your QB. One other little bonus I got from watching the all-22 from week seven, was that Will Clapp was the starting center for the Chargers, and I focused on him, as well. I had more or less assumed he was JAG… but now I’m not so sure. He seemed like a competent, well rounded center in both pass pro, and the run. In the run game, he seemed to follow his assignments well— drew to the side the play called for, and finished his push to the end. In pass pro, he held his own all game. One thing I really liked was that when a gap opened up, he would maintain his block, but extend an arm out towards the gap, and a couple times took on a double block— and he did it pretty well. But even when the double block wasn’t there, he was able to narrow the gap that had opened, and at least slow the pass rush. I thought he looked pretty decent— at least in what I saw of him. Don’t sleep on this guy. He could be our next center. And I’ll admit— I don’t have a ton of faith in David Edwards as a LG. Obviously, he’s not a better option over Connor McGovern, or he’d have had that role last season. And I have no idea how McGovern will fare at center. GO BILLS!

I mean… I suppose…. But why does this read like an optimistic justification to not feel bad about a pedestrian WR corp?

But will that receiver that they will want to move be Aiyuk? Their SB loss must still be stinging. I have a hard time believing they're going to trade away the guy who caught for over 1,300 yards if they have aspirations of returning to the SB.

The Bills playing on Thanksgiving gave me a welcome respite from my obnoxious, Patriots*-fan in-laws. Now what am I going to do to get them to leave me the ***** alone for three hours???

How much trade capital do we really have, though? Fans act like Brandon Aiyuk, and DK Metcalf are just sitting on a shelf waiting to be sold. Should we have mortgaged the future in the draft a la Sammy Watkins? The Diggs trade worked out for us spectacularly, but Diggs wasn't even the Vikings #1WR at the time, and was reported to be a locker room distraction, complete with his signature tweets. But google trade rumors for either Metcalf, or Aiyuk, and articles with speculation involving multiple teams will come up. And neither of those players have moved... at least yet... June 1st is approaching, and we'll see what happens. But even after this WR-rich draft, the competition for a stud WR will be robust.

Maybe it's the homer in me, but that does look like one helluva roster... It's unclear if we even have the capital to land either of those guys. If we did, it would surely be steep, and our cap situation is not the best. Is spending that much on a single player (and I assume the cost would be considerably higher than what we paid for Von Miller?) a sound strategy? The Bills aren't the only team that might covet players like Metcalf, and Aiyuk. And neither of them have moved. Of course, there is that June 1st, Tre White cut coming up...

His brand of condescension is nothing special.