Mickey

I'm not losing sleep over him being gone this year but at the same time, the guy can flat out play. He has made some of the most difficult catches I have ever seen by a Bills WR with all due respect to Marlin Briscoe, Frank Lewis, Jerry Butler, Andre and Bobby Chandler. He has huge hands which enabled him to make those one hand grabs. I think the fall off in most of his numbers are more the product of a crappy offense, with crappy plays, crappy quarterbacks and a really, really crappy offensive line. He has had a great career and did it with the likes of RJ, Todd Collins, Kelly Holcomb, an aging Bledsoe and Flutie at QB. His glory days are gone, I agree, but I think he still has some game left in him. Not enough to justify the salary we would have had to pay to keep him maybe but still, I wouldn't bet against him having a decent year. Maybe he is past his prime and all but man, in his day, he

That is sad to hear. If JP isn't the answer, then its back to square one at QB after two 1st round picks, a second and a fifth. Yikes. Boy, didn't we have it good to have Jimbo all those years so that there was never any question who are QB was going to be. We were able to use our personnel "capital" on other things rather than a bi-annual search for a decent signal caller. I wonder what they do to test accuracy exactly. That is the one unifying trait I think that all good QB's share whether they are big, tall, strong armed, have quick feet, read well, etc, etc. They all have differences in physical abilities but what they all had in common was accuracy.

Yeah, Holcomb is dependably average at best. If JP can't be more effective than Holcomb and last year he wasn't, then JP will be selling insurance by '08. If he improves his accuracy, and I expect that he will, he will be fine. If not though, we may very well not have a better choice on the roster than Holcomb.

Yeah, I agree, it likely shows both. My hope and belief is that JP's accuracy will improve, especially if we stop rolling him out so much. If he can start nailing the easy ones, those legs and his arm strength might make him a pretty decent QB after all.

I know it is not the main point of your post but I find the notion that defenses dared us to pass by loading up on the run interesting and you are not the only one to mention it in this thread. I didn't really see it that way. What I saw, or thought I did anyway, was that opposing defenses knew our line was, as coach BB said, "for sh*t". Consequently, they figured they would put lots of people up close and blitz a lot because they weren't going to get burned. Our line would not hold them off long enough for the QB to find the open guy. That halted our passing game at the point of attack, where it starts, in the pocket. As for the run, having all those guys up close put them in fine position to stop the run as well. If you have a line that can hold them off, then a defense has to back people off to try and improve coverage of space in a zone and players in man coverage. That moves those people away from the line and opens up the run. At the same time, passing is harder in that there is better coverage but easier in that the pass rush is more manageable. In short, putting 8 in the box was a defensive tactic used against us because it stopped both, the run and the pass. It wasn't necessarily because they didn't fear the arm of any of our QB's, that didn't matter. They didn't fear our OL and knew that if we did throw, even with thinned out coverage due to all the bodies up close, they were going to get through our line and into the QB's face before he could take advantage of the thinner coverage.

You guys are arguing over two different stats I think. I pointed out earlier in the thread that HJolcomb has a higher yardage per attempt number (ypa) but JP has the higher number when it comes to yards per completion (ypc). The shows that when JP threw, he went deeper than Holcomb on average but he didn't complete enough of them to move the ball as effectively as Holcomb did. Normally, the guy with the higher ypc would have higher ypa as well but not here. The reason is the drastic difference between the completion percentages. Holcomb completed so many more of his passes than did JP that it more than made up for the fact that he threw shorter than JP did. Again, the issue is accuracy.

Last two starts he was 50% and 37%. Yes, the 37% was NE but it was at home, Holcomb, on the road against NE was at 60%. He had three games in the latter part of the season after he became the starter again where he was in the mid 50's so you are right, he was a little better. Still sucked though, both of them. Here is a cool stat, well maybe not: Inside the 20 JP threw at a 31% clip, Holcomb, at a 70% clip. Were the red zone plays that different? I beleive JP will improve his accuracy, he has to.

Great, just what we needed, another inaccurate QB. *sigh*

I guess we saw different things. What I saw was a lot of roll outs because JP was supposed to be good at throwing on the run and we needed to roll out to avoid pressure. They tried that with Drew. Remember that Titan game with Volek where we needed the two point conversion to send it to OT on the last play of the game. We rolled Drew out and he threw to Shaw who appeared to catch it but when he raised it in the air to celebrate it was knocked out of his hands as he lay on his back? After a replay review they called it incomplete and we lost. That freaking play was a Mularkey fave and he ran it like crazy last year with JP and it didn't work because JP wasn't throwing accurately on the run. Take the Tampa game, first three series we ran the ball with Willis on first down. The first pass was a short one to Neufeld, incomplete. Second pass, short one to Reed for 4 yards. The game plan was different, I won't argue that. They didn't roll out Holcomb for one. Still, it was the same crappy line. We ran the ball, or tried to and failed. That set up bad down and distances from the get go. It was the same with both QB's, the running game failed more often than not. I think we both agree that JP needs to improve, especially accuracy. Whatever the problem was last year is over and done with anyway. I just think that Dick and Marv aren't going to care about some of the issues so often mentioned around here when it comes to picking a starter. I think that if JP is outplayed, albeit clearly outplayed, in preseason, he won't start. I doubt it will come down to that. More likely it will be a murky, less than clear deal and if so, JP starts with a pretty quick hook like last year.

I agree, he has good legs and great arm strength but you know, so did, *gulp* RJ. It won't matter if he can't deliver the ball on target. Holcomb had 230 attempts and was sacked 17 times, JP had 228 attempts and was sacked 26 times. JP did have 154 yards rushing compared to 11 for lead foot Holcomb. It seems like Holcomb got rid of the ball more and completed more while JP took the sack trying to make a play that wasn't there. That is precisely why so many wanted to get rid of Drew. He held on to the ball trying to make a play resulting in disaster rather than just getting rid of it out of bounds or on a dump off so that we kept field position and let our defense win the game. Funny, Holcomb did what everyone said Drew needed to do. Problem was, our defense collapsed last year so throwing it away to avoid a sack or tossing a dump off way short of the first down wasn't enough this year. Without a defense, we needed a QB to actually win the game as opposed to simply avoid losing it.

Never said that Nall was outplaying anyone, nor did I intend to make any prediction as to who the starter will be. Just that if JP is still throwing them at a 49% clip and either Holcomb or Nall does markedly better, he will sit. Do you disagree that if JP is sailing them over people's heads in preseason and Nall isn't that JP will not start? I think that the number one thing JP needs to work on is accuracy and if he doesn't, he could lose the job, even to a nobody like Nall or a neverwas like Holcomb.

I totally agree on the idea that he is still young and I brought that up in my post giving him the benefit of the doubt that the 49% was not a true indication of his abilities and pointing out that it was essentially his rookie year. All that other stuff, about the lousy coaches, plays, situations, OL, etc. I agree, that was a problem last year but you know what, Kelly Holcomb played behind the same line, with the same coaches, same bad situations and the same bad plays. What worries me are not the incompletions he threw while running for his life on third and 12, trying to hit Evans long. What worries me are the roll outs we tried so often to get him away from pressure where he threw the ball over the head of Moulds or whoever on a 5 yard out pattern. I saw that a lot. I am absolutely willing to give him the benefit of the doubt as to what happened last year. Not this year though. If he is still sailing them over people's heads or tossing them in the dirt in pre-season this year and Nall or Holcomb aren't, he should sit, despite his arm strength, foot speed, draft position and all that. I think the job is his to lose and that if he is not clearly out performed in camp he will start but only by default and there will be a quick hook. My hope is that he plays up to his potential in camp, clearly wipes the floor with Nall and Holcomb and emerges as the undisputed stater opening day. That will happen....if he improves his accuracy.

What I said: "As ineffective as Holcomb often was, his percentage was 67%. " What you heard: "...Holcomb's 67% is great". ineffective=great???? The point I was making is that 49% is indescribably bad and that Holcomb, as bad as he was, wasn't that bad. Not all JP's incompletions were long bombs, a lot were 7 yard button hooks or outs on third and 6. Holcomb's avg. yards per attempt was 6.5, JP's, 5.8. Kelly had 14 plays over 20 yards and 3 over 40. JP had 15 over 20 and 6 over 40. The average per completion was 9.7 and 11.8 so JP was a little higher but in the end, he was not as effective as Holcomb but the bottom line is that neither player deserved to be a starter in this league. All those numbers tell you is that you had a little better chance of moving the ball forward when Holcomb dropped back to pass than when JP did. JP isn't going to be a QB on any team throwing at a 49% clip. As bad as Holcomb is, he was better than JP last year if only barely. If JP doesn't improve his accuracy and if Nall is more accurate, JP sits. Not really a radical notion. I think JP's problems are not his attitude, his personality, any of that stuff. I think his problem is accuracy. He hasn't hit his targets long or short. Dick and Marv are not going to care about JP's credentials. If the other guys don't really show themselves to be markedly better, JP will get the benefit of the doubt and be the default starter with a quick hook waiting if he falters.

I think I heard recently that Fletcher said LM was unable to cover anymore and so they constantly had him up in the box in run support. You can't have a guy like that on the field at any price. MW was beaten out of a position fair and square by a better player, ie, Jason Peters. On top of that, he showed himself unable to play guard. We gave him a shot and got Holcomb knocked out of the game as a result. Even re-structured, he would have been a waste of cap and roster space. Even Adams himself knew he was a goner. I think this draft will turn out to have been a solid one. It just doesn't please people who like to see head line grabbing picks and trades coming out of the front office such as trading for Bledsoe, picking McGahee or trading up for JP. SS and DT are not exactly glamorous positions to address. It is what we needed though. We are playing a defense that relies heavily on good DT's and an active SS to be effective and going into the draft we had Coy Wire at SS along with Tim Anderson and aging vet Tripplet at DT backed up by essentially nobody. In the draft we got the best SS, or second best if you count that other guy as a FS, on the board at the time we took him. We got the best DT left on the board when we took him who was also the last decent prospect available at that position (the next one was taken in the third or fourth round). I know, we didn't show how clever we are with trade downs or score high on the abstract "value board" that Mel Kiper and other draft gurus use to evaluate the wisdom of this or that pick. Donahoe's drafts consistently were graded very highly by these same experts. That worked out well didn't it? When was the last time you found yourself saying to a buddy in the car while waiting in stadium traffic after a game "boy, Lawyer Milloy had a helluva game, didn't he?" or, "Williams was an animal out there today" or "Big Sam dominated the game today"? It is a little early to be declaring this draft to have been an abject failure. We needed a SS, we got a good one. We got a guy from freaking Ohio State, a virtual DB factory, who ran a 4.45 at the combine. We needed a DT who can get in the backfield, we got one, a 300lb tackle who runs a 5.1 40 who consistently makes plays in the backfield. Both are juniors who haven't even shown their best yet. Why are so many convinced that this draft was such a freaking Waterloo?

Does anybody remember the IBP? He was its first and only President. Those were happier and more friendly times around these parts. Those are the times I remember most when I think about Bib.

There has been a lot of talk about JP's fast feet and about who does and doesn't like him in the locker room and all that. I don't think those factors are what is going to decide who starts for us this year. I think the critical factor is going to be pretty simple: Accuracy. Accuracy. That is the main thing. I saw JP totally miss open guys on short routes too many times, especially on third down. Above all else, an NFL QB has to be accurate. His completion percentage was 49%. As ineffective as Holcomb often was, his percentage was 67%. I am convinced that JP's completion percentage, his lack of accuracy, is why Dick and Marv are not sold on him and why they brought in Nall and promised him a legit shot at the starter's job. It doesn't matter what problem we have on the line, Holcomb threw behind the same line as JP did. I don't think Marv or Dick really care whether or not JP can make some plays occasionally with his feet. I don't think they give a hoot whether this or that vet likes JP or hates him. What they want is a QB who delivers the ball to an open man accurately. Yeah, the blocking is likely to be bad. There might not be as many opportunities to make a play as we would like as we try and rebuild this offense. However, when there is time to throw and there is an open man, the QB has to find him and hit him. We can't afford to many unforced errors from the QB. When they have a chance to get the ball to an open guy, they can't sail it over their heads or throw it into the dirt. If JP can show himself to be accurate, he will start. If Nall or Holcomb show better accuracy, JP will not start. 49%????? That better have been a result of his lack of experience and not a true indicator of his ultimate abilities. Given his lack of playing time in year one, last year was his rookie campaign. Class is over for JP. He has no more leeway. I think Nall knows this is the best chance he will ever have at winning a starting job and I expect him to give it all he has. Holcomb has to know that this is his last hurrah as a starter. I think he will make the most of the opportunity as well. Should be an interesting camp.

Clearly, with the Watson acquisition now complete, we have everything in place to make our run for the title in '06.

Not good enough to crack the starting lineup of arguably the worst team in the National Football League. Hmmm...... I think his nickname is "Camp Fodder".

I've known Bib a long time from this board. He is one of the few people on the board I've ever spoken to directly. Our political differences were sharp but they didn't stop me from respecting and liking him. We have shared reading lists and carried on enlightening discussions through PM's, off the board. I'll miss those. The depth of his anguish over the loss of his wife was immeasurable. I hope he has some peace and is with her now. The one time I spoke to him was when I had some problems in my own life, when my step daughter was beaten. He gave me some good advice then. It wasn't the quality of his advice that struck me. It was that he gave a damn in the first place. This place won't be the same without him.

I look for Schobel to have a typical year for him. That means 11 sacks or so, 80% of which come against the two worst teams on our schedule, whoever they end up being.

I think you are overestimating your importance in this game by referring to yourself as a "pawn". Pawns are in the game, we are not. Ralph's heirs and their estate attorneys are going to decide what to do and it won't matter what we do or say or what the press does or says. Economic reality is going to decide it or some white knight who maybe wants to do Buffalo a favor like Golisano. I think Ralph is worried that under the current CBA and revenue sharing scheme, at some point economic reality is going to dictate that the team moves, whether that day arrives while he is still around or long after he passes away, it doesn't matter. When that day arrives, the team is almost certainly gone. He is trying to get that situatiion addressed to improve whatever years he has left with the team or to pave the way for a new owner to at least have the option to keep the team here. I think he is doomed though I appreciate the effort. The question isn't whether the team is viable here which is something his current efforts might help, the question rather is whether it is more profitable to move the team elsewhere. If it is, then it is probably just a matter of time and circumstances before it moves.

Add in that we played the easiest, patsy filled schedule, we could possibly have ever hoped for in 2004 and that summs it up. The reason some of these yahoos didn't produce in 2005 but did in 2004 is because we played crappy teams that made those guys look better than they were in 2004. The 2003 and 2005 team were pretty much the same, 2004 was a scheduling induced fluke.

...and could block, hence OJ. He never dropped a pass that I can recall. He was better than Belitnakoff.

Man, I don't understand why so many votes for Sestak. Consider this fact about the Bills defense in 1964 when they won that first AFL title: That defense held their opponents to a pro football record 913 yards rushing on 300 attempts, while also recording fifty quarterback sacks in a fourteen-game schedule. The leader of that defense was Sestak. We won those AFL titles because we had a great, truly great defense and Sestak was the best of the bunch. I'd vote Kemp off long before Sestak. He may be one of the best to have ever played DT in professional football. I have a hard time choosing Bob Chandler, that guy never dropped a pass, ever and was a great blocker back in the OJ days. He was a classic WR in the Belitnikoff mold. Still, Ritcher was a top lineman for 13 years, numerous pro bowls. I would have a tough time choosing between those two. But Sestak? I don't get it.

I am going to go way out on a limb here and predict that they are going to start the most accurate QB of the bunch, whoeve that ends up being. I know, I know, it is a radical concept but there it is. Not foot speed, not arm strength, not "leadership", just the simple ability to hit an open WR in the hands. It is amazing how little accuracy is discussed when it comes to QB's. You simply can't afford to miss an open receiver. The whole offense is designed to get to the point where there is an open receiver and to give the QB time enough to spot and throw to that receiver. You simply can't have a QB who zings them into the dirt or zips them over their heads with regularity. The coaches and the whole team can get the QB to that point where there is an open man and he has time to thorw it. That is when your QB takes over and does the one thing that he must do and that only he can do, deliver the ball within the receiver's reach. If he can't do that, he can't play in this league no matter what his 40 time is or how fast his fastball is.