Mickey

He made 12 over 40 and 2 more 50 or over. In 91 he was 8-11 between 40 and 49. Never know if he would have made it but I wouldn't bet against him.

Maybe not Ralph, who was our GM way back then?

My Gary Anderson theory: 1982, the year we drafted GAry Anderson to be our PK, there was a rookie deadline, if they didn't sign by then they got some sort of automatic, very cheap, contract. Anderson, who I watched practically never miss a kick in college here at SU, was picked by Buffalo who played hard ball with him on his contract knowing he had his back up against the rookie deadline wall. Reluctantly, he signed, came to camp and then proceeded to miss everything. I mean EVERTYTHING. Even xp's. He practically wiffed a few in Charlie Brown fashion. Last cut before the season we dropped him even though he was the highest drafted kicker we ever had. We ended up starting Efren Herrera who never played again after that year. Anderson was signed immediately after we cut him by the Steelers, I think he signed the deal at the airport. If memory serves, it was well above that rookie benchmark, well above. He suddenly ends up being their starter on opening day despite his dismal preseason. He nailed 83% of his kicks in his rookie year while Efren hit only 57%. Hmmm......Why would the Steelers sign a preseason washout rookie PK and have him start from day one with out so much as a hint of a tryout? Could it be that his agent called the Steelers when Buffalo played hard ball on the contract and set it all up with Gary missing all those easy kicks on purpose? Bad enough but it gets worse: After Herrera went back to selling insurance, we messed around for a few years with Joe Danelo as our kicker until, in 1985, we signed none other than Scott Norwood. The rest is history. Ralph's cheapness, at least in those days anyway, resulted, eventually, in Scott Norwood lining up that 47 yarder for the title when it would otherwise have been Gary Anderson, the most accurate kicker in NFL history. Screwing a 6th round rookie kicker out of a few samolians cost us a freaking Super Bowl title. The irony, the agony, the paranoia. Just a theory.

Yeah, 1981 and 1982 were awful drafts, nightmares in fact. Witness the ugliness: (Pick, Rd., # in Rd. and #overall) 1982 1 1 19 19 Perry Tuttle WR Clemson 2 2 21 48 Matt Kofler QB San Diego State 3 3 4 59 Eugene Marve LB Saginaw Valley State 4 4 10 93 Van Williams RB Carson-Newman 5 6 21 160 DeWayne Chivers TE South Carolina 6 7 4 171 Gary Anderson K Syracuse 7 8 23 218 Luc Tousignant QB Fairmont State 8 9 22 245 Dennis Edwards DT USC 9 10 21 272 Vic James DB Colorado 10 11 19 298 Frank Kalil G Arizona 11 12 23 329 Tony Suber DT Gardner-Webb 1981 1 1 28 28 Booker Moore RB Penn State 2 2 21 49 Chris Williams DB Louisiana State 3 2 22 50 Byron Franklin WR Auburn 4 3 20 76 Mike Mosley WR Texas A&M 5 3 27 83 Robert Geathers DT South Carolina State 6 5 24 135 Calvin Clark DE Purdue 7 6 23 161 Robert Holt WR Baylor 8 7 22 188 Steve Doolittle LB Colorado 9 9 20 241 Rob Riddick RB Millersville (PA) 10 10 24 272 Justin Cross T Western Colorado 11 11 23 299 Buster Barnett TE Jackson State 12 12 22 326 Keith Clark LB Memphis State Marve was okay and so was Rob Riddick. We cut Anderson. The rest are bums.

Fair enough but another way to look at it is that in terms of what was expected of him, he was a flop. A second round pick and only 22 catches in his first 3 years with us. Bills were 10-6 in his rookie year and 8-8 in 1983 so they were not bad for his whole term here. He had one year where he was not an embarassment and that is about all you can say about him.

I started this as a reply in another thread but on the worst players at every position but we have had so many bad WR's that the discussion deserves its own thread. With stats, here is the pool of the worst of the worst. I have concentrated on guys who were drafted pretty high or who at least raised some expectations at one point or another for some reason. Perry Tuttle, first round pick 1982: 1982: 7-107, 0 TD's 1983: 17-261, 3 TD's 1984: traded to Atlanta where he had 1 catch 1985: no catches in three games, career ends. Byron Franklin, WR 2nd Rd. 1981: 1981: 2-29, 0 TD 1982: Did not play 1983: 20-452, 4 TD's 1984: 69-862, 4TD's 1985: 10-119, 0 TD (with Seattle) 1986: 33-547, 2 TD " 1987: 1-7, 0 TD career ends. Mike Mosely, WR 3rd Rd. 1981 (picked after Byron Franklin): 1981: did not play 1982: 9-96, 0 TD's 1983: 14-180, 3 TD's 1984: 4-38, 0 TD's Eric Richardson, WR 2nd Rd. 1984: 1984 did not play? 1985: 12-201, 0 TD 1986: 3-49, 0 TD John Kolesar, WR 4th Rd. 1989 (same year Bebee taken in 3rd): Never made an active roster. Russell Copeland, 4th round pick, 1993: 1993: 13-242, 0 TD 1994: 21-255, 1 TD 1995: 42-646, 1 TD 1996: 7-85, 0 TD 1997: played for GB and Philly, 20-242, career ends. Bucky Brooks, 2nd Rd. 1994: Returned kicks until until put injured and put on IR, missed next season as well and then was put on defense by GB where he never started, not sure if we drafted him to play WR or to play defense. Trivia note: we had two 2nd round picks that year and followed up this great pick by taking TE Lonnie Johnson, without doubt the worst TE ever in a Bills uniform. Justin Armour, WR 4th Rd. 1995: 1995: 26-300, 3TD's 1996: IR 1997: traded to Philly, did not play 1998: traded to Denver 1-23 1999: traded to Baltimore, 37-538, 4TD's Bernard Ford, 3rd round, 1988: Was hurt rookie year and then cut/traded, played one year with Dallas and one with Houston before career ended with a grand total of 17 catches. Not one regular season catch in a Bills uniform. John Kimbrough, WR, 3rd rd 1977 1977: 10-207, 0 TD career ends John Pitts, WR first Rd., 1967---never made a catch...on offense, was made into a safety where he had a good 5 years before being traded to Denver where he became part of the orange crush defense. The worst stretch ever had to be the early '80's where in the space of 3 years we took 4 WR's in the top 3 rounds and they were all total busts including the likes of Tuttle, Mosely, Franklin and Richardson. Ever wonder why Jim Kelly didn't want to play for Buffalo? His targets would have been Franklin, Mosely and Tuttle. Yikes.

One quibble: You have them going from 5-6 to 6-6 after "losing a close one" to the Chargers. After adjusting for that error, they finish 7-9.

Perry Tuttle was a first round pick and was worse than Brooks.

Why isn't WR Perry Tuttle on this list or TE Lonnie Johnson?

I think Duke really has a shot at RG, maybe he gets his first crack the minute Villarial gets hurt and then never looks back. IF that happened, we would have three new starters on the line from guard to guard which, I and many others have long thought, was where the real problems on the line were all along despite Williams' mediocrity.

No love for Everett or Roscoe? They were our top picks last year and both of their rookie seasons were whitewashed by injury. It is almost as if we have four top "rookies" this year as we will be getting our best and to a certain extent, first looks at Roscoe, Everett, Whitner and McCargo.

I agree but a lot of that will depend on how well Troy is playing. Unless Koy is pretty obviously outplaying him, I think they wait until next year to start Koy.

He is my dark horse candidate to be a surprise starter, unseating Villarial on the right side.

Schobel is as good as he is ever going to be. Opinions vary on just how good that is. Many share your opinion that most of his sacks come against the weaker teams but that is probably true of every DE. My opinion is that he is a serviceable if unspectacular DE. If we didn't have so many other far more problematic holes on the roster, we might consider an upgrade here but for now, we can't afford it. Someday we might have a shot at a truly special talent at DE, maybe not quite a Bruce Smith but at least something a lot closer to that level than Schobel. When we do, Schobel isn't good enough for us to forgo that opportunity.

Even so, I think he is perhaps the most vulnerable starter on the line. If Duke ends up starting, I think it will be at RG rather than on the left over Reyes.

Nice to see some good things being said about Marv who has taken a beating on the board since the draft. In one article Peters said that the Bills were his team growing up so it made it even nicer to know that he would be with them for a long time. Gotta like that.

In terms of being on the roster at the end of camp, or making it as a starter, I don't think Losman is "on the hot seat" but he is as far as his career is concerned. I don't think it will matter much if Holcomb emerges as the starter on opening day. Losman will get a chance soon enough. Whether that is as the opening day starter or later, when Holcomb inveitably falters won't matter. How he plays when he is out there over the whole season will be critical for his career. At RB, this is a huge year for Willis. Hopefully we will have a less than terrible line this year and better play calling all around leading to manageable down and distance situations. This is the year he needs to run up some numbers if he wants the money and kind of career he clearly wants to have. Obviously, he is not on the hot seat for a position on the roster or as a starter. Williams might not make it through camp, not with Thomas on the roster. In that sense he is certainly on the hot seat but either way, I don't see that as a major concern for us at all. Even if he makes it, what snaps Willis does not get will go to Thomas. I agree on Shelton, mostly because I don't know squat about Goldsberry. At TE I think Cieslak or Neufeld might be gone no matter how much they rave about Brad. Royal and Everett aren't going anywhere unless something very unexpected happens in camp. I think we will keep three so that leaves one of the other two out. On the OL I think Villarial might be "on the hot seat." He will make it through camp and will almost assuredly be the starter but if there is a starter there that is vulnerable, I think it is him. We have been awful the last two to three years from guard to guard. We have a new LG and a new C, RG is the next one up. Duke is behind him there as well as competing with Reyes for LG. I actually think he has more of a chance at RG based on these snippets from some articles: "Preston saw spot duty at guard last season in place of the injured Chris Villarrial and has seen most of his time at right guard this past spring..." And : "They got me fitting in at both guards and at center so it's kind of the same situation I was in last year, which is kind of tough " He is my pick as a suprise starter on opening day but at RG, not LG. That having been said, you could make a good argument that no one on the O-line should feel all that secure about their position. At WR I think Peerless, in terms of his career is on the hot seat big time but then again, so is Reed and Davis. All three may be at the end of the road if they fail to land a job here. Roscoe might not be done in the NFL if he fails to win the starting job at #2 or virtually starting in the slot but if he doesn't, people will start to talk about him as a bust. Other than Evans, they are pretty much all on the hot seat one way or another. On defense, Clements can't afford another year like the one he just had if he wants to continute being thought of as a top corner. London is facing a critical year as far as proving that he can transition to a new defensive scheme and he has a contract situation brewing as well, not as critical as Clements but still, he is going to be looking for a new deal. Kelsay and Denney need to show that they can handle the left DE spot which I doubt they will be able to do. In that sense they are vulnerable, especially Denney. I don't see either getting cut though. This is likely Troy's last hurrah with the only question being when he is replaced. Conceivably it could be this year but not likely. Whitner, given all the grousing about when he was picked, will be under public pressure to prove he was worth his selection but otherwise, I think he will be the starter by week 4 at the latest. He is going to draw a lot of fan and media scrutiny. Obviously, Takeo is going to face a critical year in his career. Either he is going to be his old self or he is going to have lost a step or two and if he has, he won't be in the league much longer. Only a fool would bet against him. By week 8: WR Evans OT Gandy LG Reyes C Fowler RG Preston RT Peters WR Davis QB Losman RB Willis FB Shelton TE Royal Depending on down and distance, first off the bench will be RB Thomas, WR Parrish and TE Everett. On Defense: RE Schobel T Tripplet T Anderson LE Kelsay OLB Posey ILB Fletcher OLB Spikes CB McGee CB Clements SS Whitner FS Vincent First off the bench in the nickel will be Greer, in the dime, Youboty though I think that is a bit of a stretch. I can't help it though, from what I saw last year, I don't think King can cover well at all. McCargo will play on passing downs in place of Anderson. Most likely injury leading to a young guy starting: Vincent/Simpson followed by Villarial/Preston.

Makes Walt Patulski look like a sound pick.

Its an anti-jinx since no such thread appeared the last two years and we had injuries just the same to our top picks. This thread is a shield against bad luck. It would be a jinx if I espoused the opinion that we wouldn't suffer such an injury this year.

The Camp Goblin has snagged a few of our guys in the last couple of years including Losman, Everett (OTA injury) and Parrish. Whose turn *shudder* is it this year? What player's injury would hurt the team the most? On offense would it be Evans, Gandy ( I know, he is mediocre but what do we have behind him?), Willis, JP? Who gets your vote for mvp in terms of his absence hurting the most? On defense I would probably go with London Fletcher followed maybe by Schobel or one of the corners. Special teams, not including the kickers, McGee. He might be the overall winner of the "oh god please not him" in terms of preseason injury since we would lose a great return man and a solid corner. Will Marv influence Jauron in terms of training camp style so that we see a return of "Club Marv"? If that keeps the Camp Goblin in his hole, I'm all for it.

Getting back to the x's and o's, what I find most interesting about that quote is not his admission of the obvious when it comes to rebuilding but his statement of the new staff's plan to win with simplicity, not bells and whistles. When you try to come up with a complex system on either side of the ball, hoping to keep your opponent guessing, often the only people confused are your own guys. Having great athletes think themselves into paralysis can result from schemes with too many "bells and whistles". The old adage about being too smart for your own good comes to mind. Simple schemes focus on the athletic abilities of your players where you depend on superior skill and execution to beat the other guy rather than some trickery that fools him. Is it better to rely on a handful of plays your guys have down pat, that they can run in their sleep or is it better to have a 50 pound play book so that you have lots of options, even if those options are plays half your guys only dimly remember? You can lose the value of a player's athletecism by asking that he make too many decisions in too short a time. On the other hand, if your schemes are too simple, you run the risk of being predictable. Its a balance I think Marv understands and apparently the staff he hired were selected for, among many other considerations, their appreciation of simplicity. This year is probably too soon to expect anything dramatic but I think he is on the right track. Especially for the young guys from Losman to Whitner, simplicity and perfection through repetition is a solid choice.

I thought part of the deal was not not tag him next year as either a franchise or transitional player, no? In any event I agree with your take on why Marv didn't sign him. He did not have a good year and paying a ton to a guy who was pretty shaky makes no sense at all. For my money, I don't think Nate is a premier corner. The Patriots have a pretty good coach and back when we had Winfield, the Pats threw at Clements all day. They especially liked naked WR screens where Nate was man to man, if he missed the tackle, it was a big gain and that was often the case. I give some weight to BB's judgment on Clements which was plain to see when we played the Patsies.

I wept when I read this, so great was my joy. The collective hope of a grateful city are kindled anew at this welcome news.

I think outside observers would tend to focus on the loss of "name" players like Moulds, Milloy and Adams as well as another "name" coming off of a very nasty injury (Spikes). Apart from Willis and Clements, there is hardly anyone left on the roster that anyone outside of Buffalo has ever heard of. They don't know the team well enough to be aware of how much guys like Milloy and Adams had slipped. To them, it just looks like we have ditched just about every decent player we had going back to Drew and Pat Williams.

This team really is a mystery to me. New coaches, an entirely new defense, offensive line changes, questions at QB, etc. I don't know what to think. I wouldn't be surprised if we won 8 or 9 games or if we finished 1-15. Could depend on the schedule as muchs as whether JP can play. The OL line upgrade and a more intersting offensive scheme could change the whole face of this team. Who knows, could we end up being more of an offensive minded football team rather than defense first as we have been? The nice thing about these unknowns is that it makes it more exciting to see what they are going to do in camp and in the early part of the year.