Mickey

OJ Simpson led to Jim Kelly. The Bills traded Simpson to the Fortyniners for a raft of draft picks including the one they ultimately used to draft Cousineau. In face, I believe he was the number one pick in the entire draft that year. He signed with the CFL where he led Montreal to the Grey Cup. Eventually he wanted to get in to the NFL but Buffalo wouldn't sell his rights. Eventually he signed with the Bills who immediately traded him to Cleveland for a pick they later used to draft Jim Kelly.

Overdorf does it

C'mon, if watching Craig Nall throw some outs to Josh Reed doesn't get you excited, nothing will. Seriously, I think the average fan can only take so much uncertainty and with all the new faces, from Marv to McCargo, we have plenty of things to be uncertain about. Add in all the negativity surrounding our draft that has, perhaps fairly, been thrown around, I think lots of us are not as excited as we would usually be.

Up until Reed and Lofton, Butler was the best receiver I had ever seen in a Bills uniform and that includes Haven Moses, JD Hill, Frank Lewis, Bobby Chandler and Marlin Briscoe. Had he not been derailed by injuries, I think he had the talent to get to the Hall.

I second that nomination. I was going to go with John Fina but I didn't have enough concrete on hand to build a flame proof bunker first to protect me from the likely reaction. Big Pete was awesome on third and 5 and could block. He rarely dropped a pass and could go weeks without a holding penalty. He was no Kellen Winslow but he was a throw back to the old school TE's, a big target with soft hands making tough grabs in traffic and absorbing nasty hits while still hanging on to the ball. These days, everyone is obsessed with TE's who can "stretch the field". If that is what you want, ditch the TE and start a third WR. A real TE in my opinion is one who can block like a tackle and who can outmuscle the defense to make those drive saving short catches. Pete Metzelaars definitely gets my vote.

The teams we beat and their records in 2004: Miami 4-12 Jets 10-6 Arizona 6-10 St. Louis 8-8 Seattle 9-7 Miami 4-12 Clev 4-12 Cinn. 8-8 SF 2-14 Draft Order for 2005 Draft: SF Miami Clev. TB Ten. Minn. AZ Wash Det That means 4 of our 9 wins came against the three worst teams in the entire league, 5 came against the 10 worst. The bottom 13 of the draft order was: Dallas Jacksonville Balt. Oak GB Wash Seattle Atl SD Indy Pitt Philly NE Our record against that bunch? We lost twice, badly to NE, we also lost to J'ville at home, in the opener no less. We lost to Pitt, at home, against their backups with a play off spot on the line. We even managed to lose to Oakland who is in that group despite their 5-11 record due to trades. For those counting, were were 1-5 against this bunch. The Jets and Seattle were the only teams with winning records that we beat. 2005 is 2005. No doubt though that we had a pretty easy schedule in 2004. As for margin of victory, I am more concerned with wins and losses. If we must go there though, lets note that "up and coming" Cincy gave up 82 points in two games against the 4-12 Browns. The Rams gave up 31 to the 4-12 Dolphins, another 31 to the 6-12 Cardinals, 45 to Green Bay, 40 to the Patriots and 34 to the Falcons. Seattle also gave up 30 or more 5 times that year including 43 to the Cowboys. SF gave up over 30 points 6 times that year including 76 points in two games against he Seahawks. In the two week before we beat the Browns 37-7, they gave up 58 points to the Bengals and 42 to the Patriots. The 37 they gave up to us was the best they had done in weeks. No matter how you slice it, that was an easy schedule.

I don't think that in order to honor Pat Tillman and what he did that we have to pretend that what happened after his death didn't happen or agree never to speak of it. One can discuss the Warren Commission without it somehow degrading memories of JFK. It is not an either or situation. The two issues are unrelated.

You know I agree with you on how we have neglected the offensive line over the years. My main complaint there would be how we used high picks on skill players at positions that were already reasonably, if not spectacularly, manned while we tried to make do on the line with cast off FA's. I think this year is a different situation. All the guys we took are at positions where we are definitely short or will be next year. Nate and Troy will almost assuredly not be starting for us next year. The Tampa 2 relies heavily upon the SS and our choice, had we not taken Whitner, would have been between Wire and a FA cast off. We not only needed a SS, we were desperate for one. A funny thing happened while we wasted those years ignoring the offensive line. Along the way, the defense collapsed and at this point, is an even worse problem than our perennially underperforming OL. This is not a year where we took a flyer on a guy like Willis when we had a serviceable back like Henry and could have taken Eric Steinbach to fill a gaping hole at G. This year, the gaping holes were at SS and DT. The ones we got were the best on the board at the time we picked and may very well not have been there later. The other option is that they could have been more active in free agency trying to sign a SS and some DT's and then used the draft on the OL. That isn't the way they went. Instead, they picked up Reyes and Fowler as FA's and used the draft for the other holes. Judgment call. Only time will tell. Besides, I really don't think it is possible, given the laws of physics as we know them, for Reyes to play worse than Anderson or for Peters not be a significant upgrade over Williams.

The whole Pat Tillman story or just part of it?

Every team and every fan hopes to find a gem or two, either late in the draft or in free agency. The "nobody from nowhere" narrative is as emotionally compelling as it is an excellent step towards building a winner. Your cap money can only go so far and when you blow a ton of it on high profile, low performance guys like, oh say, Mike Williams for example, you have to make up for it with some high performance, low profile and low contract players or you are doomed. Thus, every year, as we obsess over every new name on the roster, we are always looking for the guy who will be this year's most likely candidate for the "nobody from nowhere" award. Nance is this year's candidate. Yeah, there is a lot there based on nothing more than hope, and if it is hype, which is just another form of hope, call it hope without reason, then so be it. Seems to me that hope and even hope without reason, is as good a statement as to what it means to be a Bills fan as any. Go Nance, Go Bills.

You are right, there isn't much difference among them. Buried in there though are usually a few gems.

Correct, but Mike-Mayer played in only 2 games for the Bills in 1982. Mike-Mayer Efren Herrera replaced him after the first two games in which Mike-Mayer missed 1 of 3 FGs including one under 29 yards and an extra point. Anderson was actually drafted to replace him as Mike-Mayer had been with the team since 1979.

You just never know until they strap on the pads in the NFL. Plenty of nobodies make it and lots of "can't miss" prospects miss by a mile. When it comes to any particular player, no one really knows for a certainty. This is not even a science let alone an exact one. Maybe Merz will be stepping out of the tunnel at the pro bowl, maybe he'll be selling insurance by Labor Day.

The fact that Nance wasn't drafted isn't a good sign at all but that fact is not enough to declare it an absolute impossibility that he will ever amount to anything. The Bills signed him and could have signed any number of other undrafted players besides him. They apparently saw something in him. Some may see signing with an NFL team as a UDFA to be proof positive that the player doesn't belong on an NFL roster. I don't really get that. Such a signing means that you have a chance, a chance that legions of other players not so lucky would die for. Respectfully, I just don't see how signing with an NFL team means you have no chance of making an NFL team. It would seem to me to be a reasonable position to take that Nance not having been drafted is not a good sign for his future but that even so, he is on the roster for now, will be in camp and will get his shot. Maybe he will prove that he should have been drafted, maybe he will prove that he shouldn't even have been signed as a UDFA. We will find out soon enough. I don't have a problem with those who think he sucks nor with those who have high hopes that he was a steel.

I agree that a deal now can carry less risk, and less reward, then a deal next year or the year after. What I didn't get was the "long term" aspect and how that is an advantage to a player that he should consider in deciding, as Peters did, to sign an extension now rather than to play out his current contract and the see what he can get as a free agent. I wonder how much the players and their agents worry about injuries? Clements, as you point out, is taking a risk to get past that franchise designation to have a shot on the market after this season. He must have decided that the risk of injury, or a bad season, was low enough in comparison to what he will gain if he gets to the market (as part of his deal this year the Bills agreed not to franchise him next year so he knows he only has to get past one year without any troubles). Can you imagine having to advise a player on that kind of thing? Pretty difficult call to make and if you are wrong, the consequences are just awful.

I had a chance to check into Cousineau's side of the story thinking that so much time has passed, maybe he finally told his side of the behind the scenes story. He was initially elated that the Bills drafted him because he liked Knox and Buffalo was close to his hometown of Cleveland. After the draft he went to the airport in NYC to fly with his agent to Buffalo to meet everyone and talk to the media since he was the top pick in the whole draft and all. There was no ticket for his agent who thought it was a trick to give the Bills a chance to talk to Cousineau without his agent being there. Once that was straightened out, the two made it to Buffalo and were to have dinner with the GM, Stew Barber and Ralph Wilson. They were to meet in the hotel lobby but Barber and Wilson never showed up and also never bothered to call. Cousineau and his agent were insulted and believed it was part of a hardball negotiating strategy by the Bills. His agent called Montreal who offered him a lot of money. They told the Bills that they didn't have to match that offer, just get close or at least in the ball park. The Bills offered him half what the Alouettes offered. Again, Cousineau was livid and decided that he wanted nothing to do with the Bills. That is his side of story. In the end it worked out for everyone. Cousineau ended up in Cleveland, his hometown and Buffalo ended up with Jim Kelly.

When something like this happens, I have to wonder if some behind the scenes rumor made the rounds that killed his chances of getting drafted. Maybe a rumor about drugs or an injury that never healed. I see no reason to lose any sleep over why he wasn't drafted. If it was because he is simply no good, who cares? He didn't cost us a pick. If it turns out that he is one of those real talents who slipped through the cracks, then good for us and shame on the teams that passed him up. I have seen plenty of guys come and go who had unbelievable numbers that just never translated to on-the-field performance. Anyone remember Dan Brandenburg? A LB from goodness knows where who was big, strong and had a 40 time most WR's would envy. He hung around for a year or two but never made it as a starter. It happens. Nance is a very intriguing prospect, the kind of player really that Marv was always pretty sharp at spotting. Not future pro bowlers mind you but guys who could produce way beyond expectations and who really fleshed out the roster. Hopefully that will be the case with Nance.

Saying you won't play for this or that team may not be as common today but it was once fairly common. Tom Cousineau was a much heralded LB that the Bills selected as the first pick in the entire 1979 draft. He swore he wouldn't play for the Bills and instead signed a contract with the Alouettes who promptly won the Grey Cup with Cousineau as the title game MVP. On a side note, when the Bills traded OJ to San Francisco, one of the picks they received was their first round pick for the '79 draft which they used for Cousineau. When Cousineau wanted to finally play in the NFL, we traded him to the Browns for some picks including the one we used to select Jim Kelly. Without OJ, we would never have had Kelly. By the way, if memory serves, Kelly had not interest at all in play for the Bills which is why he ended up in the USFL. Eli Manning made it pretty clear he wasn't going to play for San Diego as well. It just goes to show that you interfere with a person's freedom to contract for his services with the highest bidder at your peril.

Isn't that the plot for Buffalo 66? ****Sound of me throwing my replay hanky******** Find me some footage. Lets clear Norwood of theses scurrilous charges once and for all.

Yeah, but that money has been paid. I don't see it as part of the "long term" aspect of the contract. I just don't see much advantage to the player for these long term deals. What matters is the bonus and the first year or two which they are likely to realize even if they don't play well since it would cost the team too much to let them go that soon. The later years of the contract are not guaranteed in terms of getting paid and they could be cut at anytime. The advantage to the player is that he gets the deal now rather than a year from now or later when the situation may change drastically. Maybe he gets hurt, maybe he just starts playing poorly. The risk is that he misses the opportunity for a big pay day if he should have a breakout year. So called "Long term contracts" are good for teams, not for players.

Long term deals are nice but they aren't guaranteed apart from the signing bonus. He makes 4.2 in the first two years but that goes way up to 6.35 in the last two. No guarantee however that he will ever see that money. From the player's perspective, there really isn't anything long term about these contracts. The long term aspect of it is in the team's favor, they don't have to worry about free agency for the life of the contract so, if they want him that long, they have the player sewed up. The player however can be cut at anytime no matter if it was a 5 year or 10 year deal.

Exactly, this is one of Marv's best moves since he became GM, that and cutting Williams and Anderson.

I think Erxleben was using half deflated balls, er...footballs, which was legal back then in college but not in the pros. No one was clamoring to keep him after what he did in preseason and everyone was shocked when he had such a great rookie year in Pittsburgh. There weren't an awful lot of SU players likely to go far in the pros or even make a roster so were all following Anderson closely. I was so psyched when the Bills drafted him since I would have had one of my favorite college players in a Bills uniform. At the time I was hoping they would keep him and chalk the preseason up to rookie nerves but it was not to be.

I agree, I included them because they were tapped in that other thread by some as making the all crap roster for the Bills. These are not who I think are busts, they are the candidate list. I looked into this because I saw names like these guys more than I did Tuttle. Tuttle was the Mike Williams of his era. To be fair, I can see why some remembered Copeland and Armour as being pretty bad. Neither of those guys were high picks but because they showed such promise early, expectations were raised, and dashed. With Armour, it was especially disappointing because he would make great catches, 2 or 3 at least, and then off to IR for another year. "Bust" doesn't fit him as well as "Excruciatingly disappointing".

We didn't have the dome until, I believe, 1980. He was the kicker for SU from '78-'81. So for a couple years he kicked in Archbold which made the Rockpile look like the Plaza Hotel. Even after the Dome was built, he played 1/2 his games outdoors in the northeast against Pitt, Penn State, Boston College, Rutgers and the like in all sorts of bad weather. I saw every home game he ever played and that guy was money, like Christie. Not a huge leg but accurate with a capital "A".