Mickey

The only reason for us to do that is because we think Peterson won't be there at 12, ie, that someone with a higher pick than 12 will take him (some team picking between 7and 11). Why wouldn't the Bears and the Redskins just work that same trade with whatever team it is that we think is going to take Peterson before 12? It is the same deal only the Bears end up with a pick higher than 12. As far as I know, the Bears are not on a mission to get Tim Anderson who might not even have a job by the fourth week of training camp.

Failing to keep his feet in bounds on what should have been a touchdown against the Titans was one of the worst mistakes made all last year by a Bill. He also had more than his share of drops. His blocking was good more by reputation than execution. He is nothing special.

"Workout warrior" is a sobriquet usually used to describe a guy with great numbers at the combine that aren't backed up by production on the field. As such, I don't think that is a fair description of Willis. Quite the contrary, he was on everyone's list as a top LB even before he wowed the scouts at the combine with his 40 time. He has a strong history of production on the field that is backed by solid size, weight, speed and strength numbers. As for the intangibles, he is off the charts. After reading your post, it sounded as if Willis had a dismal Senior Bowl. In actuality, he was the South's MVP with 11 tackles, 7 solo, and a forced fumble. In practices they were saying things about him like this: "Ole Miss linebacker Patrick Willis is doing his best to impress at the Senior Bowl. The Butkus Award winner is calling the signals for the South defense and has turned scouts' heads with his speed and desire. He even made an interception during an 11-on-11 drill." I wouldn't judge a guy based on his senior bowl performance as opposed to an entire college career. They are too limited in terms of what they are allowed to do defensively but even so, if winning the defensive MVP isn't enough, what would be? The first round isn't a sure thing but neither is the second round. I think the team is positioned to have an excellent draft and could only screw it up if they decided to get cute or greedy. We definitely have a huge need to fill at MLB and if we have the chance to get the best one in the draft, a guy with the production, stats and character tha P-willie has, the pick is a no brainer.

I hope we do. This is actually my top contender for the "what the eff.... " award. Of all the first round picks Marv might make that would send the board into a group seizure like he did with the Whitner pick last year, taking a TE in the first is the most likely. Seriously though, I really do think we need a good TE and I just am not cofident in the people we have on the roster now. That screw up by Royal in failing to tap his feet before he went out of the endzone against the Titans was a true "Ronnie Harmon" moment. He had a number of drops throughout the year that convinced me that we need a TE.

Maybe but I think he is worth more to them in a trade than sitting on the bench watching LT. Sure he has a floor price for Turner and just as sure, he hasn't reached it yet which is why I think that whatever he is asking us for now (something none of us knows) it isn't his floor. He will get there eventually which is why I still say the price on him is going to drop from where he is now, not the floor, to where he will be eventually, ie, the floor you reference. Either that or AJ opened negotiations with his lowest price right from the get go and that would mean he is stupid.

And no team in the league thinks he is one of those 4-5 backs. Neither do I. All those other teams, despite their need at RB, felt there were better options. The Chargers don't expect to get that much and will almost certainly take less. All those other teams were aware of that and they still passed on him.

Best to wait. The price on Turner isn't going to go up. If the Titans sign him, that is one less team that is going to take a RB in the early rounds which means there will be one more back still on the board when our picks come up.

Because they decided he wasn't worth it. Exactly my point.

Good point Kelly, the draft is unpredictable. Sometimes the best strategy is to position yourself to be able to take advantage of whatever opportunities fortune sends your way. How many times have you watched the first round and after hearing a pick said to yourself, "what the F#$@$?????" Happens every year.

I have a hard time believing Pittman would drop that far but you never know. As for Poz, I know a lot of people like him but a lot of other see him as being overrated. Its all subjective so I won't argue that with you. I just see Willis as something special on and off the field. Two picks, two LBs? Good point, it could happen. I like our position in the draft and really hope we stand pat until we are on the clock. There isn't much bad that can happen given our needs, where we are picking and the direction the draft may be moving what with all the FA RB signings. The one thing that could screw this up is a bad trade a week before the draft.

That was what I was, in my clumsy way, trying to say. We have invested in improving the run game in a big way as it is with the new lineman. Now we need to do the same, or at least start to, with the interior defense. I don't expect them to ignore the need for a back but I don't expect to take precedence over the MLB issue. Now if Okoye, Branch and Willis are gone at 12 but Lynch or Peterson are there, maybe its a different story. That might entail a choice between the CB's still on the board and the RB's. Good chance RB is seen as more critical.

If so, why are we and the Titans the only teams who know how great Turner is? There was a lot of movement of running backs this offseason and no one made a mover for Turner. Why? I don't dispute that Turner has plenty of potential and could be a very good player, I just don't agree that he is a lock to be a top 5 RB year in and year out as so many hereabouts seem, with such certainty, to believe. Green, Lewis, Jones, Willis, Droughns, Henry, Bell and Rhodes have all moved this offseason so there was certainly a lot of teams looking for RB's this year. Clearly, not everyone is so certain that Turner is such a stud. Yeah, they could be wrong or maybe they didn't have the jack for his contract. Or, maybe there are some legitimate questions about Turner.

If Peterson does drop that much, it will be because ao many teams just don't need a RB given their offseason acquisitions. That pushes all the other backs down as well. And that increases the odds of a good back being there for us at 12 in the second round. I think the need at LB is greater than the need at RB and a lot harder to fill. Willis is just too good of a match for us interms of being both, the best player available and filling a need on the roster. The whole RB obsession is getting out of control. Our biggest problem last year, bar none, was the inability to stop the run, not the inability to run. We spend a bundle on lineman to repair what problems we have running the ball. We have added another DT but he is not really a run stopper. The need at MLB is so glaring that unless Jim Brown in his prime is available at 12, we need to take Willis. The alternative is to spend another season getting our butts kicked right up the gut while a highly paid RB spends most of the game on the bench wondering if our defense will ever get a stop.

Wait 'till we are on the clock in round 2 and we know what we would be passing up to get him. The 12th pick in the second is a pretty high pick.

A second round pick would be fine for a guy like Turner but we really just don't know how good he is let alone declaring him to be a top ten back. I give him a lot of credit but at the same time, I think San Diego's line would make a lot of backs look good. I would rather we hang on to our picks and only make a trade while we are on the clock so that we don't miss any opportunities that arise during the draft. If that means we lose Turner, I can live with that because the other options are pretty good ones. Good things come to those who wait. I think the price on Turner is going to keep dropping.

He isn't going to cost us just one pick though. Just for an example, if he costs a second and a third rounder, you would have to compare the chance of Turner not working out versus both a second and a third round pick not working out. Keep in mind that we ended the season with a first rounder, a fourth rounder, a fifth rounder and a seventh rounder starting with a sixth rounder getting a number of starts as well. Another factor is the salary Turner will command versus a rookie back taken, at best, at 12 in the first. I can certainly understand the interest in Turner. I just think we have plenty of options that make him far short of a necessity. I can see the tide building for another draft day collective anal seizure when Marv does something other than pick up Turner like we experienced last year when he took Whitner and McCargo.

I don't think the Truner trade should be dismissed out of hand but what is so stupid about Pittman, Bush, Irons, Walker and Hunt as alternatives to that? Good backs can definitely be found after the first round. Frank Gore, third round Willie Parker, undrafted Rudi Johnson, fourth round Brian Westbrook, third round Personally, I like Pittman. Though I don't think backs are a dime a dozen, I do think the league, largely based on economics, is moving away from superstars with huge contracts at that position and instead going for the committe approach. Big time backs have had to struggle to get huge contracts lately. James, Alexander and others. The future of the game appears to me to be moving away from the "franchise back" idea. We will still see that approach but in the aggregate, I think the best cap strategies favor a different way to win.

Yes, they had only one year but boy it was a lousy !!@#$!@#$#!@$ year. The DT's were pretty awful, there is no sugar coating that fact. If Okoye or Branch should, by some miracle, fall to us at 12, we would have some very tough decisions to make. I know I wouldn't want to have to pick between Willis, Okoye and Branch.

Yeah but who says we have to take a RB in the first round if we don't trade for Turner? This draft has lots of good backs. Turner himself was a 5th rounder. Pittman, Bush, Irons, etc, we have a good shot at landing a very good prospect at that position in the second. I especially like Pittman. With 4 picks in the top 100, I see no reason why we couldn't take Willis in the first, providing he is still there at 12 (he is moving up the charts as it is), and then get a good RB in the second and decent prospects at CB, DT, G or even TE with those two third rounders. The only thing that screws that up is some crazy trade for Turner. We don't have to have that guy, we just don't.

That could change in a hurry if Okoye or Branch falls to them. Not likely that either would or that we would take one but it would be tempting. Being on the roster and being any good are two different things. Williams is an overachiever but even at that, he is no better than average. Anderson isn't even that. We were close to the leagues worst against the run and most of that was due to problems at DT and MLB. That is why Fletcher is gone and why we traded for one in the Spikes deal. Tripplett was a huge disappointment. So what you have is awful (Anderson), average (Williams) a disappointment (Tripplett), potential (McCargo) and a decent but not great vet (Walker). Not exactly a murderers row is it? If either Okoye or Branch falls to us, I wouldn't at all be shocked if we took him.

We don't have to have Turner, there are a lot of good RB's in this draft (Peterson, Lynch, Irons, Bush, Pittman, Hunt, Walker, etc). San Diego has to get rid of this guy as he is almost useless to them now. The price on Turner is going nowhere but down. The worst thing that happens to us is Lynch and Peterson are gone by the 12th and so we take a guy in the second like Pittman, Bush or Irons. We need a RB and there are plenty of good ones in this draft and they will cost us only one pick and a rookie contract. Tunrer is going to cost us more than one pick and a high priced FA contract on top of that. The leverage here is ours.

Exactly. We don't have to have this guy, they have no use for him. End of story. If the Titans are dumb enough to give up too much for a back up RB who will demand a huge contract, then let them. Lots of good RB's in this draft, even into the 3rd round, and we have plenty of potential on the roster as it is.

Is there any way to derail this "We must have Turner or we shall die" train? We have 4 picks in the top 100, lets not get greedy and screw that up. This is the kind of "I'm the smartest guy in the room" wheeling and dealing stuff that Donahoe couldn't resist. Buffalo could put this draft on auto-pilot and do just fine. Just set the machine to "get the best LB, RB, CB and TE or G or DT you can find with those 4 picks" and then go out and clean the gutters. Where we will get into trouble is fixating on this or that guy that we somehow get convinced we just have to have and then start squandering picks to get that one guy. This is a team sport and the best "differance maker" is having solid performers across the whole roster. New England, the Sabres, that is the model.

Too many ifs, maybes and whoknowsits for my taste. No idea at all if Peterson will be there at 12 nor if we can just wave a wand and move back into the first. In the draft, there is no such thing as a lock. We have 4 picks in the first three rounds (4 out of 92). I see no reason why we can't get 4 quality players as it is without bothering with Turner and the huge contract he is going to want. We have no idea what is going to happen with the first 11 picks. Every year, there are surprises with people being taken much earlier or later than predicted. Certain trades being discussed now for us to get Turner would forfeit our flexibility to take advantage of the surprises that might happen on draft day. Ko Simpson and Youboty are execellent examples of that. Had we traded away those picks before the draft to get some FA thinking we couldn't get quality players with those picks, we would have missed out on nabbing these guys who inexplicably slipped through the early round cracks. I think we are in great shape to continue building this team through the draft and I have no problem playing the cards we already have. We declined to overspend for Clements and he was as good a CB as Turner is a RB with the added bonus that Clements proved his value as a long term starter. I see no reason to overspend and squander first day picks for this guy.

There is a danger here that we will think our way right in to a terrible draft by getting too cute. This kind of thing is the Tom Donohoe style. I know just sitting tight and taking a good player you need is not as fascinating or exciting as wheeling and dealing but I think it is the best way to go, at least for this team in this draft. There is absolutely going to be a very good player at a position we really need to fill available at 12. We can all argue about which guy is best or which position we need most. Even so, I think all would agree that we could make out pretty good with anyone from this group: Okoye, Lynch, Willis, Houston, Revis, Branch a few others. I see no reason to think our way out of what is a pretty sweet situation as it is. Lets sit and see what the options are when it is time for our pick. That is the time to consider a trade, not now when we have no idea what is going to happedn during picks 1-11. Maybe a golden opporunity pops up because somebody slides unexpectedly or someone is taken earlier than predicted. Lets keep our options open.