Mickey

A pro bowler in the hand is worth many, many Mike Williamses in the bush.

They are obviously adamant that he play another year, at least, under his present contract. They had all offseason to negotiate and didn't. He is clearly underpaid and the team has redone the contracts of other players similarly situated. I can certainly see why he wants more money and wants it now. His only option is to hold out. We will lose games and he will lose money. Game of chicken.

That is not true.

It is simple, he is getting paid far less than he is worth. Nobody seriously disputes this. His only option to try and get what he is worth is to hold out. The team had the entire off season to redo his deal and they didn't because they want him to play one more year on his existing contract. So we have a standoff.

Unfortunately, there is nothing to talk about. The Bills won't renegotiate this year. He won't play unless they do. Nothing is going to happen until one side is forced to blink.

About what? There is nothing to say, he wants a new deal this year, they said no, he said good bye. I guarantee that if they send a text message that says "Lets negotiate, make us an offer" they will get a response.

Dockery was quoted in Wilson's article saying that last summer he only heard from Peters once, that when Jason wants to get away from the game he really gets away from the game. Peters is underpaid. According to Wilson, he wants a new deal now, they won't give him one until next year. So he is doing the only thing he can do, hold out. So far this hold out has cost him nothing, zip. If he doesn't play this year, he loses $ and the team loses a pro bowl left tackle. If the teams doesn't give in, you can kiss Peters good bye, it will just be a question of when, this year, next year, whenever. Great strategy, turn arguably our best player into a disgruntled soon to be ex-employee.

He will lose money, we will lose games. Great.

Wilson's article said: Even if Peters comes to camp, the Bills expect him to continuing playing under his current contract. Perhaps things could change, but for right now the Bills have no plans to give him a new deal this season. So much for all the talk about how the team would give him a new deal if he only came to camp. Whether he comes to camp or not, no new deal this year. Sounds to me like they said they want a new deal this year and the team said "no". Until they say "yes" there is nothing to negotiate, nothing to talk about and no need for any meetings, text messages or faxes. That all makes sense and explains the utter lack of any activity. Both sides are waiting to see who blinks first.

A modern, less penalty prone, version of Conrad Dobler. The thing about an occasional dirty shot is that it gets defensive lineman a little worried, a little tentative. It can have value, within reason.

I like Butler too but we fielded the worst offense in the history of the franchise, there wasn't a lot of fantastic play by anyone on that side of the ball.

Actually, what Brandon said is they expect him to honor the commitment, ie the contract, he made two years ago. They said, with regard to whether they would re-negotiate, they would "never say never". Not exactly a committment is it? Why on earth would him coming to camp be the dealbreaker? You mean to tell me that they are willing to pay him millions more but only if he is in Pittsford??? That sticking point is not the millions but his current zip code??? All hold outs that end with a contract are negotiated with the player not being in camp, that is why they call it a hold out. I am betting the problem is the $$$$ not his absence from camp.

I have been through all of Brandon's quotes and I am sorry but that is not what he said. They said they expect him to honor the commitment he made two years ago. They said, with regard to renegotiating, that they would "never say never" and that they "wouldn't be opposed to discussing it". That is nowhere near a commitment to renegotiating a hefty raise. Quite the opposite. Besides, why on earth can't they negotiate a contract without him in camp??? Every hold out that ends in a contract ended because they negotiated despite the player's absence. That is a ridiculous condition. They all have cell phones and it is the agent who negotiates, not the player. Everyone assumes the team wants to pay him but golly gee they can't because he won't come to camp. Does it make sense that the team is willing to part with millions more cash but by god, what they won't do is send the check, he has to come and get it or no deal? The problem isn't the current whereabouts of Jason Peters. The problem is he wants more money, and sooner, than the team wants to pay. They won't pay him and he won't come. For now, that is the deal until someone blinks.

Another, more indepth article about the surgical stats points out that 80% of those not returning to full activity after surgery had overlapping problems and further, the studies were not done properly: Rates of surgical success, defined as a full return to preinjury activity levels, have been reported to be 63% (16), 72% (5), 80% (17), and 93% (7). However, none of these studies was a randomized, controlled trial. Eighty percent of the athletes in these series who were not cured by surgery may have had alternative or additional treatable diagnoses (18), which suggests the importance of identifying and treating overlapping diagnoses before surgery. Sports Hernia Further, there is a new procedure done laproscopically with better success ratios and shorter recovery times. Like the one LJ Smith had on May 31st that got him on the field for full contact drills just last tuesday: "Until recently, the only way to treat this condition was an invasive procedure that required 10 to 12 weeks of healing time. However, Dr. Richard Cattey of the Milwaukee Institute of Minimally Invasive Surgery (MIMIS) at Columbia St. Mary's hospital is one of the handful of doctors who is now performing laparoscopic surgery to treat athletic pubalgia. This minimally invasive procedure requires shortened recovery time, and allows a quicker return to sports training. Patients can return to normal activity in four to five days and can usually return to their previous level of sports activity in four weeks. " Dr. Cattey "According to Dr. Cattey, who has a 96 percent success rate for this type of surgery, laparoscopic repair of sports hernias is a precise, surgical procedure developed by surgeons at the Milwaukee Institute of Minimally Invasive Surgery. It’s only performed by a few surgeons worldwide." New Procedure Its kind of moot anyway. Every contract, new or extended, can and are negotiated contingent on the players health. Teams never sign contracts that commit them without being able to verify their fitness. Worry about his injury is not the problem, the money is the problem. Once they work that out, he will be on the first plane and they can poke and prod him all they want. If he isn't fit, the deals is off. I am sure the team has all of his medical records, his surgeon's phone number, his therepaist cell number and everything else they need to monitor his health.

What they have said is they expect him to honor his the "commitment", ie, the contract he made 2 years ago. Just because Parker and Peters weren't so intemperate as to have warring press conferences doesn't mean they haven't made their position clear to the team. They have no obligation to tell us and I think it shows more respect to keep their mouths shur in public. Besides, that position makes no sense. "We will only negotiate with you if you come to camp". No sense at all. Every hold out that has ever ended with a contract entailed negotiating with the player NOT in camp. What are they worried about, the long distance bill? In post after post I keep hearing this myth that the team has offered to redo his deal this year if he simply comes to camp. "General manager Russ Brandon said Thursday that he believes Peters owes it to the Bills to live up to the deal he signed and get to camp with his teammates." That doesn't sound like a commitment to redo his deal this year, quite the opposite. "Brandon also said he wouldn't be opposed to discussing a new contract, but he wants Peters in town before he does so. You never say never, we have conversations with our guys all the time..." Okay, as for renegotiating, they would "never say never" and they "wouldn't be opposed to discussing" it. How on earth do people interpret that as the team having committed to a hefty new contract if Jason hops on a plane? I can't tell you how often usually near my birthday, my wife has said, in regard to any special gifts I might be contemplating, "never say never" ane "I wouldn't be opposed to discussing it". Either you are single or we need to trade wives.

Never said I had incontrovertible proof so what is your problem? I showed proof, not "logic" or speculation. The injury theorists have none. As far as I know, total certainty has never been the standard for an opinion around here to be free from personal attack. You can send someone to the chair based on just "reasonable certainty". Opinions based on zero proof on the other hand really aren't opinions, they are flights of fancy even if there is an embarrasingly remote chance that they could be true. At the very least, they shouldn't form the basis for trashing one of our best players. "Could be" is the most meaningless of standards. Almost anything "could be..." In court, your not allowed to ask a question that starts out with "Couldn't it be possible that...." The immediate objection, almost always sustained, is "anything is possible". There is as much proof right now that he is injured as there is that he is on a cocaine bender. If someone posts that and I point out the lack of proof are you going to chime in and say "hey, he could be on a bender?"

That is not how it works or has ever worked in the last 15-20 years. Teams always condition offers on health and players always accept those conditions. No team in the modern game has ever irrevocably committed to a player without proof of his physical health. I am sure the team has every medical record there is to have on him already. Any new contract would be contingent on proof of his fitness. Offer the money he wants contingent upon coming to camp to get totally checked out and he will be faster than Roscoe down the sidelines.

If Sal's source is correct, that would certainly explain why Jason isn't in camp. That makes a lot more sense than the injury conspiracy theory. [Team says no. Player says yes. Team says no. Player says yes.] = hold out until someone blinks.

Not my logic, in fact there are no deductions needed. LJ Smith having had the same surgery is a fact. When he had it and when Peters had it are facts. The reports qouting what injury he had, the routine nature of the surgery and that the surgery was successful are facts. You may not accept them as dispositive, but they aren't the result of guesswork or logic. The lack of a single published report indicating a problem with his health or recovery is also a fact, not a logically based deduction. As a result, my position is that there is no proof that Peter's injury is a problem and the proof we do have indicates otherwise thus, it makes no sense to write a 5 page post declaring with certainty that the hold out is all due to this super secret injury conspiracy. But you're right, we haven't had Peters under 24 hour surveillance since the surgery in January so I guess it could be true. Maybe Peters thinks that despite being permanently crippled, he can fool the Bills just long enough to get a 60 million dollar contract before he retires due to the injury. Yeah, thats it.

They have not stated flatly that they will give him a new contract. This is what Brandon said: “We made a commitment to Jason two years ago, we expect him to honor that commitment and we expect him to be here at camp when we go on the field tomorrow at 8:30." As for there being no contact, in fact report I read, the same one everyone read, said Brandon "...has had only brief discussions with the player’s agent, Eugene Parker." The reference being plural, they have actually had more than one discussion. No matter how brief, that doesn't exactly support your claim that everything they know about Peters is from the press. Actually, as far as I know, neither Peters nor his agent have made a public comment so I don't what you base that assertion on. That same report also indicated that "Brandon said the bulk of the discussions with Parker have centered on Hardy’s deal and not Peters’ impending holdout." Notice that Brandon said "the bulk of" not "all of". That means he has talked to Parker about Peters. Again, not exactly supportive of the notion that all the team's info comes from the press. Peters shouldn't be talking to and should not be expected to talk to the team's general manager. That is what his agent is for and Brandon and Parker have talked, and apparently on more than one occasion. Further, the team has never flatly indicated that all Peters has to do is show up and all his dreams will come true as so many posters keep claiming. Have they hinted at that? Sure. But that means nothing. If they mean that all they would have to do is phone the agent and flatly commit to that. We have no idea what has been said. Publicly though, Brandon made it clear, Peters must honor the "commitment", ie, the contract he made 2 years ago. If you are willing to renegotiate, saying publicly you won't is probably not the way to communicate that.

So all that can't be disproven must be true? First class thinking as always. Suddenly, a lot of your posts begin to make sense.

Exactly, he is a nuisance, dump him. I am sick and tired of his "look at me, look at me, I'm an all-pro" BS. If we keep good players on our roster we risk ruining our spotless streak of missing the play offs. Signing him would seriously endanger our reputation of suckitude.

...and it may not be a reason at all. Maybe, Brandon is hurt because he has always had a "thing" for Jason. Maybe not. I am not sure, since the infamous Paul Seymour trade to the Steelers for Frank Lewis that any team ever enters into a contract, new or an extension, without requiring proof of fitness such as a physical nor do I know of any player ever refusing to meet that requirement. If that is what the Bills want and Peters is refusing, it would be the first instance I am aware of where a player seeking a new contract was not willing to prove his fitness by forking over all of his medical records and submitting to whatever physical tests the team's doctors require.

The injury is called "sports hernia" or "athletic pupalgia". LJ Smith of the Eagles had the same surgery, on May 31 and he is doing contact work in camp as of Tuesday. Jason's surgery took place in January so he has had 5 additional months to recover. There has been no report of his having been readmitted, regressed or had any complication. The surgery was reported to be successful by Chris Brown when it happened. I know of no public report that would indicate that he hasn't had a full and complete recovery. Upon what evidence do you base your belief that the injury has not healed? And if the guy playing his heart out on the field is getting schooled every play while our fragile QB is getting pounded, I think I'd take a chance on the all-pro, banged up or no.

Given the contract situation, there is a lot of speculation going on that Peters is really holding out because the injury is worse than thought or that the team is stalling on giving him a raise because of the injury. What do we know? Here are the only tidbits I could find about his injury before the contract situation started all the speculation. For comparision purposed, LJ Smith of the Eagles appears to have had the same surgery Peters had. Jason’s was in January while Smith's took place on May 31st. The injury is called athletic pupalgia, or "sports hernia". Smith is in camp and though he is taking it easy, he participated in full contact drills starting last Tuesday. Jason has had 5 more months to recover than Smith had. Anyway, here are some quotes from last January: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- After formally pulling out of the Pro Bowl, Bills left tackle Jason Peters will have surgery to repair a sports hernia. The procedure will be performed next Wednesday and is said to have a high success rate. The maximum recovery time is typically three months according to physicians that specialize in this kind of surgery. Peters had been playing with a nagging groin injury through much of the second half of the season and exacerbated the injury when his right foot slid out from under him while blocking defensive end Osi Umenyiora in Buffalo's week 16 game with the Giants. He left the game and did not return. Peters also missed the season finale in Philadelphia. "I'll be okay for the future and next season," said Peters in reference to the injury. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PETERS SURGERY SUCCESSFUL: Just got confirmation that Jason Peters surgery last week for his sports hernia was deemed a success. He had it last Wednesday in Philadelphia. Typical recovery time for this routine procedure is 8-10 weeks. Bills players who have had the same procedure in the past couple of years include Ryan Neufeld, Josh Stamer and Mike Schneck. So all we know really is that the procedure was a success, it was routine and that he has had way more time to recover than others who are back full speed. Unless there is something else out there by way of proof, I don't see any grounds for speculating that his injury is the key to all this controversey. If someone else has some proof that something went wrong with his surgery or his recovery apart from deducing "with geometric logic" (thank you Captain Queeg), that it must be so, please post it. That would certainly be a major issue if true.