Mickey

When Walker makes the pro bowl, then we can have this discussion. At present, he is getting paid more than his performance justifies unless you want to ignore his regular season performance and base his entire salary on 7 or 8 plays in a preseason game. Besides, the precedent was already set with Schobel so its a little late for the team to be worrying about that now. I can see why so many fans back the team and crap all over Peters. Afterall, the front office has been spectacularly succesful over the last 10 years, hasn't it? Thank goodness we have spared the horror of forking over more cash to keep good players like we did back in the day for players like Thurman, Jimbo, Bruuuuuce and Andre. What a relief it is to have a healthy salary cap number and a crummy win loss record than the reverse.

Right, he would be fired and then he could go to any employer he wants to looking for another job at whatever pay his skills, in the job market, command. Peters can't do that either. I am sure Peters would love to give the Bills the ability to fire him in exchanger for his having the right to quit this job and get a better one with all the teams that would line up to pay him what the Bills refuse to pay him.

What family breadwinner has an average career length of 3 years? Joe Schmo has a work life expetancy of 40+ years. Lest see, 40 years x 52,500 = 2.1 Million, assuming he goes his entire life without a single raise and not including fringe benefits which, for the average American worker tacks on another 17%. Besides, I don't think the right to get the best pay for your services evaporates just because you are more succesful than Joe Schmo. He is not "sacrificing" anyone. Everyone on the team can continue earning their pay same as they would without him. The only difference between him and the rest of us is we get to hire ourselves out to the highest bidder while he works for a monopoly that limits his abilit to do what we all have a right to do. But, because he is good at what he does, he shouldn't have the rights the rest of us have.

Duke has looked good every preseason and yet, without fail, has been next to useless once the regular season started. The team will do whatever they feel they have to do money wise with Peters. But don't tell me we aren't a better team with Jason Peters.

We aren't talking about a High School team here. This is what they do for a living, this is how they feed their families. I bet your employer would be more profitable if you took a 50% pay cut. Any chance you will put your "team" first and give back half your paycheck? These guys aren't being any more selfish than any of us are when we try to get the best pay we can get for the work we do.

The team has made it clear, they are not going to renegotiate his contract this year. As they have said over and over, they expect him to live up to the commitment he made two years ago. They won't give him a new deal and he won't play without one. That adds up to a stalemate, otherwise known as a "holdout".

If that is the case, he will get traded to a team that will pay him what he is worth and be a fixture in the pro bowl for years. That'll show him. I am not willing to accept one decent preseason outing from the offense as proof positive that we have no need for a pro bowl left tackle. Call me crazy but I don't see Duke Preston getting snaps at RT, a position he has never played before, as reason to be optimistic.

I agree with you, there is a small chance that he doesn't totally suck. Yippee, playoffs here we come.

Agreed. Not what you want to see in the red zone from your starter. Obviously, you can't judge him on such a limited appearance. Barring something drastic, he is the starter this year. However, for its limited worth, the truth is that JP played better than Trent last night. Doesn't mean a heck of a lot but there it is.

You really can't underestimate the impact that Spanky and Alfalfa have had on the modern game.

Of course you are right but if that was the standard around here we would never be able to praise or criticize any player because, after all, the coaches know better. Pretty much the whole point of this board is to have a place where we can all express our opinions about the team even though we aren't coaches.

I don't think anyone is making any long term judgments here. The simple fact is that Trent did not look good at all and JP played well. That doesn't mean we should change starters or start this whole QB controversy thing up again. It just means that one guy out played the other for a few snaps of preseason football. It doesn't mean a lot but it doesn't mean nothing either.

What exactly would be our strength? Moorman?

run on 1st, run on second, jump off sides on 3rd and then throw on 3rd and long. Wow, totally different offense from last year.

I am sure you are right. I don't know who and I don't know when but somebody is going to end up paying him a lot of money, enough so that the pension set back will be peanuts by comparison.

#6 will save more than about 2 hours from the whole experience for us Syracusans as it is we leave at 9:15 and get home around 8:30. that is a long day for my 70 yr old dad. 10:30 to 7:30 is much more doable. Skip Dinner and we could get home by 6:30.

How dare he put his interests and those of his family before ours? Where does he get off doing what everyone else does, get the biggest paycheck for his hard work as he can get? Here is someone whines that "but oh gosh, he signed a contract, where is his honor?" To which I reply, if any player ever challenged these "contracts" in court, they would be unenforceable as the NFL is a monopoly. If a player like Peters gets pushed too far and challenges the system all the way, say good bye to the NFL draft and all these free agency rules. They would all be free agents from the get-go, just like you and me. So the NFL gets to be a monopoly and the players accept it and the players get to break contracts.

Think maybe there is a reason why the coaches, who have watched him up close all this time, have started him only once?

I thought he was kidding.

The reason LT's like Peters are paid as well as they are is because they are very important if you want to win games and because they are really hard to find. I have seen Chambers play, in a game. Not good. Could they surprise us? Sure. It would be foolish however to count on that. If Chambers starts at RT, I think is a really good idea to make sure Hamdan and JP get lots of reps in camp.

I invite you to go back to the quotes, that is not what they said. In fact, as far as getting a new deal, what they said is that they would "never say never". And frankly, it makes no sense for them to take the position you think they have taken, that they will pay him a gazillion bucks, no problem, they just want to be here when the papers are drawn. McCargo held out, Whitner held out, Lynch held out and none of them showed up until their deals were signed. Lets take a look at what the team has said or at least quoted as having said by the media: Brandon on Peters: "...we made a commitment to Jason two years ago and we expect him to honor that commitment..." "...its difficult to have discussions with someone that is not here..." "...again, we expect Jason to be here and to honor his commitment as the organization made a substantial commitment to him two years ago..." "...Jason was in I believe to have a quick check up coming off his surgery..." See See WGR audio tape of Brandon's comments regarding Peters From that tape, it is clear they want him to honor his deal from two years ago, ie, no new deal, he even said it twice and pointed out that the commitment the team made was "substantial". It also puts the lie to so many posts hereabouts that the team has no idea how the surgery went because there has been zero contact with the team. The guy came in for a check up with the team doctors after the surgery. Lastly, the comment about it being difficult to have "discussions with someone not here" is patent BS. Parker has a cell phone, I am sure Brandon and the team can reach him anytime they want. Peters isn't returning calls because his agent is the guy to speak to, not him. That is why they hired him. The notion that physical absence from camp is some sort of logistical bar to negotiating a deal is Bozo level foolishness. More from Brandon on Peters: "Brandon said Peters’ absence from all offseason activities at Ralph Wilson Stadium has been puzzling because he has been unable to get a read on the situation, primarily because he hasn’t spoken to Peters and has had only brief discussions with the player’s agent, Eugene Parker." "Brandon said the bulk of the discussions with Parker have centered on Hardy’s deal and not Peters’ impending holdout." See D&C Article quoting Brandon From the above, all those posts about there being no contact with the team are total BS. There has been contact, in fact, there has been more than one discussion with Parker (it says discussions). Also note that "bulk of" is not the same as "all of" thus, they did speak about Peters. Have they been brief? Sure but "brief" is not the same as "none". It also doesn't take long for the team to tell them no new deal this year and for Parker to tell them to call if they change their minds. Then there was this from Chirs Brown, note that the assertion is Brown's opinion, not a quote from the team: It appears the Bills are not opposed to discussing a new deal, but Brandon would like to see Peters in person to begin such talks. "It's difficult to have discussions with someone that's not here and has not elected to participate in what we're trying to do," said Brandon. See Brown on Peters This is just a repeat of the line quoted in the D&C from which Brown reaches his own opinion as to what it means. It is the same BS line about it being somehow "difficult" to have a discussion with someone not in the room with you. I'll personally chip in a few tin cans and really long string from Brandon's office to Parker's. From the Buffalo News: Brandon said the two sides barely have discussed Peters' deal. "Very briefly with Eugene," Brandon said. And this: Brandon did not rule out considering a new deal for Peters, but made it clear nothing is happening anytime soon. "You never say never," Brandon said. "We have conversations with our guys all the time, and I think we have a proven track record of trying to get guys done and extend guys out. We've done it already this offseason with Kyle Williams and Brad Butler. We've done it with [Aaron] Schobel in the past and Terrence McGee. It's a long line of guys that we've done it with. But it's very difficult to have those conversations when the individual is not participating in your work." See Buff News' take on Brandon Press Conference The first quote is yet another example of Brandon admitting that despite his "road map of silence" meme, he has spoken with Parker about Peters. Was it brief, I'll take his word on that but I do note that the guy who came up with "road map of silence" has in fact had a number of discussions with Parker. Again, how long does it take to say "Jason wants a new deal" and "No new deal this year"??? The second quote, the "never say never" line is apparently the line you are relying upon to assert that the team is willing to give him a new deal for millions of dollars more but only if he comes to camp. "did not rule out" and "Never say never" is not exactly a committment to give him a new deal now is it? Sounds like what my wife would say if I asked her to go to a hockey game or for a certain special present on my birthday. Besides, he finishes that line with the same lame justification that it is just so gosh durn difficult to negotiate with Jason not here. Presumably, Brandon has maxed out his minutes this month talking to Evans' agent so cell phones are out. It also ignores the many deals the team has made with hold outs who actually held out. McCargo, Whitner and Lynch are just a few that I can recall off the top of my head. And so, respectfully, I think you are wrong in asserting that the stumbling block to a new deal is his absence from camp. The team has never committed to giving him a new deal if he simply comes in to camp. The have done nothing more than say the equivalent of "maybe, who knows, you never can tell, stranger things have happened, etc." The stumbling block is the financial reality that Peters is worth way more than his current contract but that the Bills could conceivably get another year out of him at a bargain basement price because he has so many years left on his deal. Peters isn't going to easily accept getting paid so much less than he is worth and the team isn't going to easily part with more money for a player already under contract. There is no idiocy or prickiness on either side. There is no easy solution that we see that the team or Peters doesn't because he or they are bunch of greedy, good for nothing morons. The agent isn't a jack a$$ and neither is Peters. Peters is justifiably trying to get what he is worth and he has an experienced agent with a track record of success dealing with these situations and getting his clients a good deal. The team is justifiably trying to enjoy the fruit of the good bet they made on Peters. This is life in the NFL.

He has leverage, it may not be enough but he definitely has some. We are not going to let a pro bowl LT go to waste, not when, at the very least, we could trade him for some good picks. If we aren't going to pay him so we can play him, we should trade him.

Two pros with a track record of success getting raked over the coals by amateurs. Yeah, nothing similar here.

They don't need to have discussed specific numbers to know whether they want to give him a new deal or not. They know what the market range is for a top LT and they know they clearly don't want to pay it. So, although you are right, we don't know if they have talked numbers, that really isn't relevant to the point. He wants more money and he wants it now, we all agree on that. The Bills won't give it to him, that is why he isn't here. And, they have told us, they expect him to honor the commitment he made two years ago. Translation? "No new contract." Result? Hold out.

After reading the links and seeing that you were wrong, this is all you had huh? Don't be embarrassed. I am sure no one noticed.