Mickey

The success of the league and the teams suggests that they have done a pretty good job. The owners clearly see trouble ahead which is why they didn't extend the CBA however but up until now, they have been spectacularly successful.

Do you really believe that parker hasn't asked for a new contract for Peters? Do you really believe that the problem is not the money but Peter's current whereabouts? Besides, we don't have to wonder what the team's position is, they have made it clear in public that they expect him to honor his current deal. Don't be so dramatic, I am sure there were no expletives involved. A polite "No" or "we expect him to honor the commitment he made 2 years ago" is all they had to say, a position by the way, most people hereabouts support and find to be very reasonable. Why does it seem so improbable to you that they would want to make good on the bet they made on Peters two years ago?

Please cite the information upon which you base your claim that Parker didn't ask for a new contract or stop making it. As you know, I have, on many occasions provided the links to articles showing that Brandon and Parker have in fact had discussions, however brief. I don't think they were talking about the weather, do you? Further, I posted the link where Overdorf himself said that they approached Schobel's people early and also the article where the agents were cited as having worked on the negotiations for 6 months which means February of 2007 which also means Schobel's skipping of 4 practices in March was a clear message from him that despite the good faith negotiations, they better give him a new deal or else. You keep ignoring those facts as if they don't exist and then make claims like this with no proof at all.

Hats off to ya!

I agree, it is a business and this will have an effect. I just think the better business decision is to have worked out a deal, as we did with Schobel, to keep Peters knocking the snot out of opposing DE's for a long time to come. Reasonable minds can differ on that. I just don't see why it has become so personal for so many here. The board is filled with bile about Peters.

Was it just as moronic to give in to Schobel? The team approached his agents in February of 2007 after the Kelsay deal and then spent 6 months negotiating a new deal for him which, save for a few details, was done before training camp. Despite the team showing all that good faith, Schobel skipped the first 4 offseason practices in March of 2007 to send the team a message. He had three years left on his deal too and the deal he had just signed had made him the highest paid guy in team history as I recall. This is football, not a scout troop, integrity has nothing to do with it. It is a business that is about money. On the field it is about winning and if you can complete passes or sack quarterbacks, it doesn't matter if you do so with or without integrity. The business part of the NFL, like the game on the field, has its own internal rules, traditions and accepted ways of doing business. Holding out was not invented by Jason Peters or Eugene Parker. Last year it got Larry Johnson a huge new deal as it did Steve Jackson this year. There are no villains here, just two businesses fighting over their share of the money pie.

Either way, it explains the lack of communication and supports exactly the point I was making, they aren't talking because there is nothing to talk about. It seems you are more a fan of Russ Brandon than the team. Maybe you should get a lawn chair and sit outside Russ's office and do a one man wave. Who would want to watch Peters pancake a blitzing LB when you can watch Russ increase profit margins. Did you see the way he sharpened that pencil? Sweet.

I hope they do the same thing they did for Schobel and pay him what he is worth which is about twice what he is currently getting paid. But then again, I am more concerned with actually winning football games. That is just me. This team, based on the work done by Marv, was finally starting to look like a contender. The first serious issue for the FO to deal with since Marv left is Jason Peters. If Brandon's job is to get the best players we can get on the field rather than to get back slaps for looking "tough", I don't think he is doing very well. Its not easy managing all that highly paid talent and titanic collection of egos but that is the job. I am beginning to think Brandon isn't up to it.

They won't give him a new deal this year, period, unless Peters and Parker can force them into it. Showing up or not has zero to do with why he doesn't have a new deal this year. The reason he doesn't is that the Bills have figured out the exact point you are making, that they have enough power to force him to play for far less than he is worth for at least another year, maybe two. Its the money, not Peters' current location that is the sticking point. So far this has cost Peters nothing. Likely, he will come in before he loses a game paycheck on the condition that they waive his fines (I wouldn't doubt his agent has agreed in advance to pay any holdout fines for him or to reduce his fee to cover them). Of course, he won't be ready to play for 2-3 weeks. In that scenario, he loses virtually nothing and gained a much longer summer vacation as well as having laid the groundwork for a new contract next year. The team will have lost a pro bowl LT for 18% of the season and had to use roster space to carry an extra T waiting for Peters to be ready to play. If they lock him out, they still owe him his paycheck. Letting him rot is an option that if circumstances arose to make it possible, would hurt the team as well. Why let a guy you can trade for a couple high draft picks who is, otherwise, of no value to you, gather dust on the shelf? That would be petulant and immature.

Another option is that he is keeping his yap shut because he has too much class to engage in a tit-for-tat with the team through the media. If the team won't negotiate, exactly what does Parker or Brandon have to say to each other?

There is nothing to communicate. 29 days ago and counting: Parker: Jason won't play without a new contract this year. How about it? Brandon: No. Parker: Call me if you change your mind. Parker isn't returning calls from the media. I am reasonably confident he would return any call from Brandon. The reason their is no communication is, simply, because there is nothing to communicate. Not yet anyway.

Fair enough but that is not a huge difference and you could just as easily argue that a number of factors would cause one to lean in favor of Peters. He made the pro bowl quicker and is already a more dominant player than Schobel ever was and he will get even better while Aaron is likely on the downside of his career. The basics are there. Both had recently signed new contracts, both had pro bowl years and both could argue they were underpaid, especially given what lesser players on the team (Kelsay and Walker) are getting. Both had 3 years left. Overdorff negotiated Schobel's extension while Marv was still the GM. Maybe Brandon is the difference that accounts for the disparate treatment, not anything Peters or Shobel has done. No way to know that.

Only they know why. Could be anything but I highly doubt that is the case. They might have decided that Schobel's extension was a mistake they don't want to repeat. It doesn't really matter anyway, they are treating him differently and I don't know how they could ever convince Peters or his agent that they aren't. The domino effect that everyone is worried about avoiding started last year with Schobel. I am sure the team has their reasons. Could be just simply that they want to reap the benefit of the good bet they made on Peters. An extension would be hugely expensive. I don't have a clue why people hereabouts see these remarkably similar situations as so drastically different and heap praise on Schobel while they have nothing but scorn for Peters. The most recent article finally makes clear what Kelly and I have been arguing for weeks, that his absence from camp isn't why he doesn't have a new deal. He doesn't have a new deal because the team won't give him one this year. That doesn't mean that Peters and Parker are right or that they are going to win this fight in the end. It does however put an end to the uncountable posts that greedy peters would get a new deal if he only showed up at camp. "The Bills are taking a hard-line approach, demanding that Peters play under his current contract this season before they consider negotiating a new deal." As Kelly and have said (and been raked over the coals for) the money, not his absence from camp or alleged is the problem here. The bottom line is Peters is underpaid but the team has him by the short hairs. Thus, you have a stalemate with Peters using the only leverage he has, withdrawing his services. It might not be enough, but its all he has and so far, I don't think it has cost him anything despite the mounting fines, none of which he has had to pay.

Why did the team start negotiating with Schobel in February of 2007 even though he had 3 years left on his deal and not do that with Peters? Did Schobel show respect for the team when he skipped out of the first 4 OTAs to send a message even though, at the time, the team was already in negotiations with his agents? Why did the team spend 6 months dealing with Schobel's agents hammering out a new deal and not do the same with Peters?

The team approached Schobel to start negotiating a new deal in February of 2007 when he still had 3 years left on his contract and even though negotiations were under way, Schobel skipped out on the first OTAs in March of 2007 to send a message to the team. They had his deal done with the exception of a few details prior to camp which is why he was in camp. In contrast, the team hasn't offered to give Peters a new deal and have instead insisted that he "honor the committment he made two years ago", an issue that didn't stop them from going to Schobel. Camp has nothing to do with this. They don't want to give him a new deal this year, period. And if they had done that to Schobel, he wouldn't have missed only 4 off season practices. They could have, if they were willing to give him a new deal, started negotiating in February 2008 and would have had 6 months to get a deal done before camp ever became an issue. The team did set a precedent with Schobel and then abandoned it with Peters.

The link for the article is no longer good (Buffalo News) but I found it reproduced here: Schobel I have excerpted the important parts. Overdorf says that they approached Schobel early and that his people did likewise. The article says the agents worked on the extension for 6 months, it was signed in the third week of August so that means they started in February. Schobel skipped the first 4 day OTA which was, I think, in March. There was an article I have cited in other posts which I don't have time to find where Aaron himself says that the basics were worked out before camp but it took awhile for some details to get done. Clearly, the team was willing to give him a new deal even though he had 3 years left just like Peters. Clearly, they started negotiating early, as far back as February and got it basically done before camp. There was no reason for Schobel to holdout because a new deal was already in the offing, it was just a matter of finding the right number. Even so, with discussions underway, he sent a signal that he meant business by skipping that first OTA. They haven't done the same with Peters. The team is not willing to negotiate a new deal, period. That is why he isn't here. There is no question in my mind that the team treated Schobel drastically different and not because of any thing Peters has done to justify the double standard. “We value Aaron very much,” said Jim Overdorf, the Bills’ vice president of football administration and chief contract negotiator. “Obviously, we want to keep our own and this is one of the ways to do it. We approached them, they approached us and we came to a common ground. It was a long process. Obviously, it worked out pretty well.” Schobel’s contract, which averages $7.2 million per year, ranks him among the highest paid defensive ends in the NFL. Just before training camp, Indianapolis made defensive end Dwight Freeney the highest paid defensive player with a six-year, $72 million deal that included $30 million worth of guaranteed money. Last week, New England awarded defensive end Ty Warren a five-year, $36 million extension that included $17.5 million of guarantees. “I think the reason we were able to get this deal done was because of the way Aaron has handled himself during his career in Buffalo,” said Schobel’s agent, Jeff Nalley, who along with assistant Vann McElroy has been working on the extension the last six months.

Hold outs suck. But Peters is not going to get a huge raise. If they wanted to give him one, they could have negotiated one in January or February, or March, or Apil, or May, or June, etc. They didn't because they have no intention of doing so. Peters has two options, play another year on his current contract or gamble on a hold out. Smart move? We'll know that when all the dust settles. Larry Johnson's hold out lasted 25 days he went from $2M per year to a 5 year, 42M deal with 19 guaranteed.

Being at camp has nothing to do with it. Its the money, not his current zip code. All they have said about renegotiating is "never say never" and they expect him to honor the commitment he made two years ago. If they were willing to give him a new deal, this would have been done in January, or February, or March, or April, or May, or June. Long before camp was an issue. They want to reap the benefit of the good bet they made two years ago. He wants what he is worth. That is the problem, not all this whining about him not coming to camp. That happens with every hold out that ultimately was resolved with the player not in camp.

Why do you hate Peters so much? Is it because he makes more than you'll ever dream of making despite his low wonderlic? So far, how much has he paid in fines? Try zero. How many injuries has he incurred in camp? Oh yeah, none. Larry Johnson's hold out cost him 357k in fines but since his new deal was 43 million, 19 million guaranteed, he and his coach actually cracked up laughing when the press brought up the fines. There was probably some angry, envious little man in KC posting about what an idiot Johnson and his agent were all during his 25 day hold out just like you.

If you want to make ethical points, fine, great idea. If you want to win games and you have a choice between trading a guy for a high pick or two in the draft or getting nothing, zero, nada, zip, you trade the guy. Whatever happens to Peters is not going to end the practice of holding out. The guy is worth more than he is being paid. That is what is at the heart of this and despite all the rancor on the board over the issue, everyone pretty much agrees on that.

Schobel held out by skipping some off season stuff. They let him know they were going to give him a new deal so he came in. The numbers were all worked out before training camp though some details delayed the signing of it for a few weeks. I am sure that if they committed to a new deal for Peters in February, with the numbers and all to be negotiated, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The team has made it clear, he isn't going to get a new deal this year. If you want to look at it closely enough, there are differences that work in Peters' favor. What differences there are, don't justify the radically different treatment. One guy gets a spectacular new deal shortly after already getting a spectaculary good deal, the other guy gets bupkus. The situations are certainly close enough for Peters to argue he is getting shafted compared to how they treated Schobel. Frankly, no one thinks Schobel is the best DE in the league and never will. There are some who already think Peters is the best in the league. I don't agree but I do think he is in the top 3 and may end up the best before he is done. We have likely already seen the best of Schobel. Peters made the pro bowl earlier in his career. Like I said, you could find many reasons to favor Peters. Overall, the situations are close enough.

I highly doubt Peters will actually stay home all season. However, if he did, and promised to do it again next year, what do you think the Bills will do? Just let him sit there for spite? No way. They will trade him. And he will get he pay day he wants. His leverage is that they can't make him play and at some point, he is worth more to them in a trade then he is sitting home. "let him rot" might sound fun and certainly would appeal to the authoritarian apparatchiks around here but it would be pretty pointless for the team to let an asset like that, whether he is on the field or traded, go to waste. Peters is a very unique situation. You don't often have a UDFA make it to the pro bowl after you already extended him once. Its a B word for him and the team.

How much time does Ralph have? Do you think how much he pays Jason Peters keeps him up at night more than wondering if he will ever win a championship before he dies? He'd quadruple Peter's pay if it got us in to the playoffs. For a guy who thinks Peters is a worthless, greedy, stupid crybaby, you do seem to be pretty upset with his hold out. Why do you care, we don't need him, right? Much better to make a point just in case any other UDFA on the roster makes the pro bowl this year. If it costs us a pro bowl LT, its worth it, right? Oh, so he didn't play in the pro bowl, that means a lot. You are right again, he stinks, we don't need him. Still, why do you keep posting in the Peters threads if you are so sure he is so useless? After all, he didn't actually play in the pro bowl as you so keenly observed so it must follow that he is no good. Certainly explains why his hold out has garnered no attention hereabouts now doesn't it?

Ummm....... I never said countless others have held out with 3 years left, I said countless others have held out. Can't you read? But the point being argued, as opposed to your childish game of gotcha, is whether Peters is a pos for trying to get what he is worth. I don't think he is. I do think that a lot of fans around here seem to feel personally betrayed at the notion of a pro bowler wanting to be paid like one and have been bitching and crying about it for weeks. Your fantasies to the contrary little boy, the NFL is about money. The players want all they can get their hands on and the teams want to keep all they can. But if it helps you, go ahead and paint one side as villainous and the other as heroic.

I don't think Peters, comparing his situation to Schobel's would agree that they have been reasonable. We don't know the team's specific strategy anymore than we do Parkers.