Cheddar's Dad

Answers to the above 3. No. It's not silly if you understand the premise which was 31% of the 2014 5 and 4 star recuits bagged by Saban are O-linemen. Saban has always had top quality O-lines since going to Alabama. Conclusion; he places a priority on building top O-lines and he wins with them. He could have signed more players at other positions but he prioritized O-linemen. In 2010, San Francisco selected (T) Anthony Davis with the first of two first round picks. They then selected (G) Mike Iupati. Wouldn't you say that the 49ers priortized selecting O-linemen that year and how would you say that team has performed since those selections were made. Please don't argue that other factors made them successful. The fact remains that they priortized O-linemen in that draft and have has success since then. 1. O-lines better than Buffalo? Of course this is very subjective but I like the lines in Seattle, New England, San Francisco, Denver, Chicago (this year's line due to the addition of Long), and Cincinnatti. 2. The QBs with two of the above are elite and they are elite due in large part to good O-line protection. It is no mystery to me why Manning chose to go to Denver. It was because of the O-line there. If you recall, he also considered San Francisco. The QB in Cinci is average but they're winning anyway, the others may appear better than they really are due to good O-lines. 3. Difference making Guards? Mankins, Yanda, believe it or not, Incognito, Beadles, Iupati, Sutton, Evans, Snee. Your problems is you don't know them because you don't watch them. 4. Bad QBs in the SB? I'm not going to limit my answer to the last 10 years. Are you old enough to remember the Viking team than went to SB4. They didn't win it but they got there with a QB that could not throw a tight spiral if his life depended on it. Can't remember his name. Also the QB that led the Ravens to a SB win (before Flaco), what was his name. Having name memory issues but if they were good, I'm sure I'd remember them. 5 How many bad O-lines won SB's in the last ten years? zip, zero. Hope I've adequately answered your very easy questions, San Jose.

A very excellent question when you're considering 1. how best to build the Bills into a championship team and, 2. Buffalo may have a very good QB in E.J. I started this thread with evidence that the best college coach in the country, who obviously knows how to build championship teams, spends significant resources to insure that his O-line remains dominant. I might also have added that Belichick spent two first round picks on Mankins and Solder and a second on Vollmer so he too obviously understands the importance of building a solid O-line. Yet the only response back from the lets draft something else crowd is, I don't care about that, I want my Mapo.

Maybe you can identify one for us or, better yet, direct us to the Gronk store?

Bandit; you think the Jets have a great OL???? Are you unaware of the problems the Jets have had at LG and the fact that Mangold's play at center has really dropped off this year?? Is there a pro-bowler on that Texan's line??? If you want to make a point you need better examples. Could it be that you could not find better examples because all teams with good to great O-lines have winning records??? BTW, watched Texas Tech and Amaro the other night. You described him as an adequate in line blocker. All that I saw from him is lining up in the slot and running to a spot where he could stand between a defender and a runner. That, my friend, is not blocking as defined by Gronk.

Easy question. The 5 quality linemen make the qb look better than he is and that applies to backs as well. With 5 terrible linemen you have no all pro QB. What you have is a series of terrified QBs being carted off the field.

I can't. I think he watched the return on the screen and acted, since his back was turned, like he didn't realize till the last second that he was in the path of the runner. Does anyone know if Pittsgurg could have been flaged for too many men on the field even if the twelfth man was the head coach and not a player?

I wouldn't mind hearing from you, Bandit. I think you're an intelligent fellow and enjoy reading your opinions. I really didn't intend to rehash this subject again, but, you see, I now live in the Knoxville area having moved here from Buffalo three years ago. I'm now a UT fan and was looking at how the 2014 UT class of recruits stanks up against Alabama's. Rivals has Alabama #1 and UT #2. Then I looked at what the Alabama class consists of, saw the Alabama recruiting trend, and thought it worthy of discussion in this forum.

I disagree with much of what you wrote, San Jose. College teams have 25 scholarships that they can award to high school football players each year. So a college coach needs to make decisions regarding what positions to priortize. To build a solid O-line, both college Coach and pro GM need to priortize. In the case of the college Coach, he has to activly recruit. Saban's record indicated he activly recruits O-linemen to a greater extent than talent at other positions and he produces national champions. In the case of the pro GM, he must be the type that can ignore that flashy TE, WR, RB or whatever when he has positions to fill along the O-line. Many GMs can't do that and that inability explains why so many teams in the NFL have sub par O-lines. Atlanta, a team that the Atlanta staff expected to contend this year, has had a dismal year because they failed to realize they had deficiencies in their O-line. You can point to more than 16 teams within the 32 team NFL that have similar O-line issues. Those issues are a principle reason for the high level of mediocrity within the NFL. Would I take a young Mankins over a young Gronk. Since the Bills has a competent TE in Chandler and nothing resembeling competency at LG, you bet I would.

Easier said than done in the NFL? Not really if you set controlling the LOS as a high priority.

This past week, I have been involved with others here in discussions about the importance of controlling the line of scrimmage and drafting a quality LG early next may. Some agree that a LG should be a priority pick. Others disagree saying the concept of controlling the LOS is over rated. It may be informative to look at the way Nick Saban builds his teams at the University of Alabama. As you know, Saban led Alabama to three national championships in 2009, 2011, and 2012. During this period of time a number of Alabama offensive linemen have been selected early in the NFL draft indicating they were important to the success of those championship teams. James Carpenter was selected in the first rd. by Seattle in 2009. Chance Warmack and J.D. Fluker went in the first round at picks 10 and 11 this past draft. This year Alabama opened it's season with a contest vs. Virginia Tech. The game was close in the first half and TV commentations remarked about how good the Hokie defensive line looked against Alamama's offensive line. Running off the field after the first half, Saban was asked what his team needed to do in the second half. Saban sternly replied. "get comtrol of the Line of Scrimmage". His team did just that in the 2nd. half and won the game 35 - 10. Once again, Saban's team is ranked #1 and the favorite for another championship. LT Cyrus Kouandijo, a junior, is considred a first round pick should he declare. His brother Arie a junior LG and Anthony Steen a senior RG are also condidered NFL quality players. What is Saban doing to insure future success? Looking at his 2014 high school recruits, Saban has 2 five star and 14 four star recruits among a total of 22 committed high school players. One of the two five star recruits is offensive lineman Cameron Rolinson, 6'6", 320. Four of his 14 4 star recruits are offensive linemen Jushua Cashier, 6'1", 300, J.C. Hassanauer, 6'3", 295, Ross Pierschbacher, 6'4", 295, and Dominick Jackson, 6'7", 312. To put it another way, 31% of his 2014 5 and 4 star recruits are offensive linemen. This is how a championship coach builds championship teams. Saban puts the highest priority on getting top quality offensive linemen.

This is a little premature. Gragg was injured some in college so his experience level was limited coming out. We was good enough to make the Bills' active roster and there are a huge number of very good players in the NFL who had nondescript rookie seasons. I think judgement about him should be reserved until we see a lot more of him.

Oh boy do I agree with this; with the first three sentences at least. I'd put Hairston and Pears together in the inadequate/below average bag and leave that bag on someone else's doorstep in another city.

Bandit, are you referring to our super bowl years when we had Will Wolford and House Ballard blocking for Thurman and Davis and Kelly? Looks like you've been dipping into the egg nog a little early?

Your point about the need at TE is valid in my opinion. Because we have Chandler, TE is not a desperate need. But your argument that the Bills don't use a TE like other teams do is, in my opinion, bogus. If they had a Gronk, I'm really, really quite sure they'd use him a whole lot. Mack, seems to me, is much more than just a pass rusher. He's a three down player with exceptional ability vs. the run and the pass. The Bills have Lawson and Alonzo. Who is their third LB? Unless you think Bradham or Moats will develop, Buffalo has a need for another OLB. Hughes? The Bills use him as a situational rush DE.

We can agree on this, Bandit. I like him too. But, if Mack were there, as of now, he would be my choice over Amaro. Mack has been an exceptionally special player in the MAC. The question in my mind is will that exceptionality extend to the NFL. I hear he has been invited to the Senior Bowl. I'll be watching those practices very carefully. If they Bills win a few more games, however, this Amaro vs. Mack talk might become moot. Then I, as you know, will be rooting for Yankey (assuming scouts feel he is another Cooper or Long). So many questions, so few answers.

Jace Amaro, 6'6", 260, Eric Ebron, 6'4", 245, and Seferan Jenkins, 6'6", 276 are the top three most often mentioned. All are juniors. Ebron just declared for the draft and rumor is that Amaro will declare. I haven't heard any word about Jenkins. Regarding Ebron; he is not the real tall TE that will help with red zone TDs and Buffalo may already have his type in Chris Gragg, 6'3", 245. Additionally, Ebron's blocking is said to be a work in progress. The final 5 games might give us a clue about Gragg's potential. Amaro is tall, has great hands but, like Ebron, is not known for his blocking. Talking about Jenkins is premature until he declares. Then there's this, if Kalil Mack is there with Amaro, which player do you take. If Yankey (the Stanford guard)is there would you take him since Buffalo currently has no legitimate LG?

I think we just do not understand each other. I'm not talking about warm bodies. What I take from your listing is that I like DeCastro, Zeitler, Beadles and Levitre, all early picks. I've heard of some of the others but can't say that they stand out in my mind and stand outs is what I want for this team. The notion that you don't need to get top talent for the guard positions is becomming outdated in my opinion. Last years draft is where I think future drafts will be headed. Last year 4 interior linemen went taken in the first round; Cooper, Warmack, Long, and Frederick. Ask you area scout if selecting interior linemen early isn't, in fact, a developing trend of GMs today. I don't know how Yankey stacks up with Cooper, Warmack and Long. From the Stanford games I've watched Yankey looked tough and mobile. That doesn't mean I would target him for Buffalo's 1st. in 2014. Rumor has it that Jace Amaro (TE) will declare and I loved Mack's (UB) play vs. Ohio State this year. If I were conducting the Bills draft I would target one of those three depending on where the Bills pick and prevailing opinions on where those players are positioned or ranked in the first round. As of now, all three seem to be sure fire first round picks and since Buffalo has no bona fide LG on it's roster that position is a top priority in my mind. Controlling the LOS is something that can never be overstated. You credit the Ravens QB for their SB victory, I credit their O-line. How is that QB doing this year? You point to the Viks as having the best rushing attack yet lost their playoff game as if to say that they lost in spite of great run blocking. You don't think that poor QB play had something to do with that loss or that an extraordinary RB may have made that line look better than it actually is? You seem to want to whittle things down to superficial numbers and facts. Football is a complex game that can't be analyzed in that fashion. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

On the same page? Not likely. Let me repeat; Guard is no different than any other position. The longer you wait in the draft to fill a position of need the less likely are you chances of getting a good player. I suggested you do a failure rate study. You declined. Guess you don't want to know the facts. I've communicated with you enough to suspect that you're one of those guys that want to feel excited on draft day by that large and fast TE that looks great at the combine in shorts and tee shirt. OK. I'm like that too. But I've watched enough football to understand that in the really important games and in the playoffs it's generally the team that controls the LOS that wins the game. With guard and with any other position, if you have a weak player and do not move with urgency to correct the situation by acquiring the best player you can find, you will continue to have breakdowns that will cost you games. In my opinion, offensive linemen play a critical roll in the success and failure of the running game as well as the passing game. I don't think you're aware of the number of times the Bills have been on the opposition's 2 or 3 yard line in recent years and failed to get the ball into the end zone and specifically failed to run the ball into the end zone. I watched last night's game and Mankins in particular. I watched how he drove that tackle five yards beyond the LOS. Result? Touchdown. That is what Buffalo needs at LG. Mean, nasty, talented, plays with passion. Arguably Belicheat's best ever FIRST ROUND PICK. The senior guards that I like are Yankey from Stanford, Richardson from Baylor, and Martin from Notre dame although I don't think that Martin is first round worthy. I also like Michigan's LT Lewan. I like him because he's a fighter, has a mean streak. I don't think he's a pro LT and wouldn't take him in the first but he'd be a great replacement for that bag of turkey meat he have at RT. Speaking of turkey, have a happy Thanksgiving day.

You never said that you get better guards by waiting?? Permit me to quote you. "It's been shown league wide that good guards, more often than not, come from later picks". Sounds to me that what you said is that you get better guards by waiting. But whether or not you said what I think you said, it's a factually wrong statement that you cannot support. What you really mean to say, if I understand you correctly, is that you prefer to wait for later rounds to select a guard because you do not feel guard is a "premium" position. I respectfully disagree as do those GMs that have selected guards with first round picks last year and in previous years.

Have you given any real thought to what you've just said??? Everyone; GM's, Head coaches and every football fan everywhere want as many first roung picks as they can get in order to pick the best players. But you're selling the idea that you get better guards by waiting till the third round??? You use the argument that because Evans, Nicks and Yanda were selected in the 3rd round or later, those rounds are the best for selecting guards. Is it possible that there have been good guards selected in later younds simply because there are only 64 picks in the first two round and 224 in rounds 3 through 7 and that number of picks increases the chances that some good guards might get picked in those rounds. You want to make the argument that you've just made?? Give me a study of how many guards selected in the first two round made good pro guards and how many failed, then do the same for those selected in rounds 3 through 7. Then compare the failure rates. Do that and you will, I'm certain, discover that selecting guards is no different than selecting players in other positions. A team's chances for getting a good player are better in the early rounds and decline in the later rounds.

Take a look at Guards Yankey from Stanford, Richardson from Baylor, and Martin from Notre Dame. Why would you wait till the 3rd. to take one of these??? If you wait for the 3rd next May, the above mentioned players will be gone. Every team in this league is drafting big DT and fast DE's and OLB in the first rd. to defeat offensive linemen. And so many who comment here think you can neutralize those top talents with mid to late rd. selections or free agent O-linemen after the best have been cherry picked by other teams. Some GMs are beginning to smarten up however as two guards were selected in the first rd. in April of this year. In fact, if my memory is correct, Wood was a first rd. selection and he's a center. Levitre and Glenn were 2nd rd picks. It is no coincidence that they have been Buffalo's best O-linemen in recent years. Going back farther, Rubin Brown was a first Rd. pick. Is there a message here??? I think so. Make the selection of quality offensive linemen a top priority and your offensive will improve in all phases of the game. If you can get quality from tackle to tackle, you can dominate.

I completely agree. It is not within the team doctors, team management, or NFL official's authority to decide if it's safe for Welker to play. Welker must pass a battery of tests and then must be cleared to play by an independent physician. Hammering any of the above for Welker's early return is inappropriate in my opinion.

Forget what they did vs. Cleveland, Baltimore, Carolina and Cincy. Those teams are not in the AFC East. Patriots and Jets are and Buffalo must build an O-line that can defeat those teams specifically. Give EJ time to pass and your grandmother would look great in a Bills' uni at TE.

What would you expect from interviewing O-linemen? Mr. Sullivan, our problem is that we have a few guys that can't play in this league?