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This thread is incredible. Long after it has been clearly established through play on the field that Brown is fine, we must press on in pursuit of the "real" paranoid Bills PTSD laden truth!! But but but, sideline tweets said!

Ironically, Brown was looking really good yesterday after a piss poor display the day before. I'll wait and see on the injury thing because I saw the comment as well about him flying by on a scooter bike right after (The team wouldn't let him do that if he was seriously injured) the alleged injury occurred. I also heard no discussion of it today on Bills radio/stream outlets from the "in-house" guys like Chris Brown, Sal, etc. although maybe I missed it. Crossing fingers. I think Shell, if need be, can man the RT spot and be serviceable.

Wow that's a great rep for both of them! I love when that happens in the camp setting,

I think when the dust settles, and barring any long term injury (knock on wood), the Bills will have the best secondary in football this season.

Ah, the gripes that have already been addressed resurface each and every practice day here at TBD as if they are brand new! - Elam is very skilled at sticky man coverage and is still picking up his technique playing in zone scheme. No, he is not better than Tre, that was last year while Tre was still working back to 100%. Yes he is more talented than Dane of course, but RIGHT NOW Dane can play the full scheme steadily. Elam will still get plenty of time on the field and hopefully put it all together this season and take the 2 spot. - Williams is a talented player, but probably overwhelmed on having to make all the D calls right now. That's why he is growing behind Milano for the time being. Not a wasted pick... What's wrong is to count on a 3rd rd draft pick to come right in and do all that. Does it happen? Yes. Not with any certainty though. All NFL teams have areas they aren't elite in. There's a salary cap. The last closest thing to a team without flaws was the 2011 Pats, 2007 Pats and 1991 Redskins. They are extreme outliers. The 2023 Bills have an elite roster as compared to their peers.

Happy Birthday Marv!! 98 is incredible...

This ^^^^^ Other than an outlier here and there, ALL defenses in this day and age are going to "collapse" against a juggernaut offense having a day in the playoffs. There are PLENTY of examples outside of the Bills D. I will say this... the "eye test" can be of great value for those that understand the game at a very high level (yes, sometimes even more valuable than stats). ie. Folks who truly understand schemes, match-ups, film, etc. The problem here is you can't just say "I know from the eye test" on an internet forum without getting into some depth of detail about why you "know" what you know from a football perspective. It takes proven accuracy and trust over time to be able to appreciate someone's eye test results. Most will stick with trusting the eye test of folks like a Greg Cosell , and not necessarily Joey Donuts from N. Tonawanda.

This! Also because today was 3rd and long situations day where they move Groot inside.

For short form tweets etc, that's fair, but we both know that typical readers are going to go ahead and do what they do and think either the sky is falling or their guy is going to be the greatest ever. I'd suggest to the typical reader to consider the other variables like down and distance/ situational football before jumping off their bridges :), and find their content from those who provide that level of detail.

The thing I've noticed that gets left out of these flash reports is context. Very few of the reports are providing that. For example, one practice day, most of the action was in the red zone (ie. tight space and timing). On another day, the team worked almost exclusively on 1st/2nd down (ie. advantage offense), today it was mostly 3rd and long situations (ie. advantage defense). Context matters.

Make that type of conclusion at the end of camp if he is still the #3 or #4 cb then AND if Jackson/Benford aren't playing great. I think that's what people are getting at. Judge not on day 2 of camp with no pads.

think of the post as bait...

Man, It’s easy to forget that even in the crazy heat, and with all the cramping, our offense went up and down the field on them all day long, but just couldn’t punch it in in the red zone.

All of Cam's accomplishments are pretty well known common knowledge for a football fan. As a passer there is simply no comparison, and that is ultimately how a QB is measured. They aren't in the same zip code as passers. My points are not related to any sort of unfamiliarity with Newton's success.

Because they are miles apart as passers, that’s all. Cam in his best days was a mediocre spinner of the pigskin Definitely more like an Elway

Can we please please stop comparing Allen to Cam Newton, ever? Its kind of an insult at this point. As pure passers, there is simply no comparison. Cam never even remotely came close to the level of Josh in this area. Possibly close from a strength perspective but not the accuracy and layered touch that Josh has developed. Even as runners, while Josh can be "reckless" with the ball in his hands while running, he doesn't take nearly the car-wreck shots that Cam did in the open field. Sure, Josh may not slide or run OB enough for our liking, but he seems to set up his contact with more awareness. And lastly of course, and as some have already stated, Josh's significant (time missed/affected for following games) injuries in the NFL to date have occurred while he was prone in the pocket.

My list in priority order: 1- O-line improvements (seems to have been addressed well) 2- Josh take the "low hanging fruit" more often (ie. open receivers underneath) 3- Better production at #2 pass catcher (WR or TE) 4- Scheme adjustments in-game

The O-line was an even more impactful issue last season (and going into this one) than production from #2 WR. The adds at both starting interior OL and depth overall at OL this year should make a nice positive impact, even though WR#2 still may remain a concern.

That's because its true. It's literally what they told us he was used for against the more predominantly Man cover teams like the Pats were. Crossers vs. Man constantly. So while Lil dirty was a limited player, separating vs man was his thing that keeps him on NFL rosters.

I'd agree here overall, but I do see Swat's point about depth of target in the Bills scheme as a part of the statistical struggle had by Gabe, and I do also believe that Gabe is still fully able to affect his own outcome in overcoming the drops, and CAN become a solid #2. Just not there as of yet, and not a sure thing.

Well put.

I wasn't really saying anything about Gabe. Just that Juju ain't it. I don't think Kincaid will quite get there to #2 status in year 1. I think Gabe is a fantastic #3. Gotta make it work by hitting the open man in this offense instead of opting deep all the time when there are underneath options. Knox will help too, That is also a good point... how they are utilized makes a difference.

He's always been very inconsistent at getting open and in the end is average as WR's go. Steeler fans were never sold on him as a whole either. Certainly more frustration than joy with him. Limited speed, explosiveness and dedication to the game at times. Pretty dang good hands though! Pretty much defines average. a middle of the pack #2. If we're looking to set expectations of the Bills #2 (Whom I think will be Kincaid before too terribly long) I would hope we can find a better example. That's all.

I'm just laughing that we (or some) decided that JUJU was a good WR now. Carry on.

Mods, I'd probably be checking 2 particular sets of ip addresses.