Cynical

Here, let me repeat this for you: "Here's a tip. Never walk into an interview, and tell management you are going to do things your way, regardless. And if they don't like it, tough. That has a tendency not to go over well." And to add to that: Especially when management is the new GM and the new HC, and both have no allegiance to either candidate. Instead of bitching about the Bills choosing RJ, and cutting Flutie loose, why don't you at least lay partial blame on the idiot that failed the interview process, because he could not keep his ego in check, and was too busy running his mouth.

Jesus. Flutie did not "leave" the Bills. The Bills cut a/k/a RELEASED him. And they didn't do it because Flutie asked them to. He failed the interview process. Here's a tip. Never walk into an interview, and tell management you are going to do things your way, regardless. And if they don't like it, tough. That has a tendency not to go over well. Maybe if Flutie kept his ego in check during the interview process, TD may have chosen DF instead of RJ.

Yeah, god knows a QB rating of 57, 12 turnovers and only 5 TDs during that losing streak makes him exempt. Was he the sole reason? NO. Did he accept ANY amount of responsibility? NO. Prior to that, did any of Flutie's team mates point out his crappy performance or his numerous mistakes? NO. IIRC, all of that took place in 1989. And either you do not remember too well, or choose to forget, but Kelly was crucified. By fans and media alike. It had gotten to the point where Polian spouted his infamous Kelly is our QB, Levy is our coach, and Marchibroda is our OC. "And if you don't like it, get out of town" rant. Also, IIRC, Kelly later apologized for his comments, and ended up changing his behavior. He no longer spoke in 3rd person when referring to himself. He no longer was quick to "blame" others for their mistakes. Did DF change his behavior after Buffalo? Apparently he did not. He learned nothing from that experience.

You are right, it was hypothetical. But Flutie himself, by himself, never won those games. The team did. There was an example stated earlier (maybe a different thread) about Neil Armstrong being the first person to walk on the moon. I though that was a great example. Because, at no point in history has anybody tried to state that Niel Armstrong was the reason man walked on the moon. Was there other astronauts on board? Yes. Neil was the first, but not the reason. Now compare/contrast that with your and other posters insistence "Doug Flutie saved the franchise". Do that knowing full well a team that is winning, regardless of who is playing, generates ticket sales. If you still believe Doug Flutie saved the franchise, then we better start saying Neil Armstrong was the reason man walked on the moon.

Both. First article is dated 12/15/01. Chargers are on a 6 game losing streak. During that time, Flutie has scored 5 TDs, but has coughed the ball up 12 times. This article came out the day after a interview with DF appeared in the Orange County Register. During that interview, DF made some rather "questionable" comments. This article also appeared before the 2nd Raiders game. This is not the full article, only excerpts. I have a copy of the full article. I won't post the full article because of copyright and IP rights. Notes: [1] The newspaper being referred to here was the Orange County Register, where the controversial statements originally took place. [2] LT fumbled the ball that was returned for a TD. Notice how Flutie is clear on what "he" produced, and that it was all positive. The implication being if it wasn't for the missed FGs and the fumble, they probably would have won that (Eagles) game. [1] The third place DF is referring to is the FAN portion of the Pro Bowl vote. If there was any doubt Flutie was NOT a big time self promoter, and DF was not about DF, then that paragraph removes that doubt. [1] Teammates refused to comment publicly. I wonder how many of DF Bills teammates were saying the same thing to reporters in Buffalo, those giving the perception the "media" was out to get DF whenever the media said anything negative about DF (i.e Gleasons column) [2] Whoops. Looks like DF forgot to include his 3 turnovers when he was "defending" himself. Interestingly enough, compare that to the Bills playoff game vs the Phins in 98, and how the Flakes like to point out DF's 300+ yards against the Phins D, and if it wasn't for Moulds, or Reed ... Somehow, just like DF, those pesky 3 T/O by the QB himself never get mentioned. [1] He couldn't name a particular instance? Maybe because said instance never existed?

I can't stand Jauron, but if he somehow directs this team to a 11-5 record, I think it would be pretty damn stupid to can him. An 11-5 record deserves another year, to determine if real progress was made, or if it was just another fluke year.

Depends on the circumstance. Peyton Manning stayed an additional year in school, and he has been quoted as saying that extra year helped him tremendously in his game. Last time I checked, Peyton was not hurting for cash.

Does Jim Trotter and Nick Canepa of the San Diego Union Tribune also qualify as 'idiots'? By the end of the 2001 season, neither one of those guys were "enthralled" by Flutie either.

Are you kidding? By no stretch of the imagination am I a Tebow fan, but if the Gators win another NC, and Tebow has another good year, some team will take a stab at him in the first round. Some team will need a QB, and they will end up thinking with the right coaching, they can correct whatever "flaw" exists. In fact, staying in school may have been the best thing he could have done. In the pros, he would have been pressured into the starting lineup before his mechanics were fixed.

This is relevant to the discussion in what way? Should I include Thurman Thomas as one of "those guys" because he made a similar comment about the team last year? What's with the attack on his character when you yourself, in the next paragraph, admit there is a problem? Stroud and Mitchell joined the team last year, and the change seemed minimal at best (from an accountability stand point). Wood is a rookie. I do not care how "nasty" (there's an overused word) he is, expecting a rookie to come in and automatically assume a leadership role is not a sign of a "good thing". That practically admits there is a huge leadership void in the locker room. TO is the best shot at leadership. Whether he does it in private or in public, he will call players and/or coaches out.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying they do not try their "best". They do. However, if their "best" comes up short, the attitude seems to be "so what". They tried their hardest, they wish they could have done better, and obviously they had hoped it would have led to a win, but in the end, it didn't. As Kelly said, he would walk into that locker room on a Monday, and he could not tell if the team had won or lost based on the mood in the locker room. That's not a talent problem. That's a "I could not give a rat's azz" problem.

If we believe the Jauron apologists, all the problems and mistakes were made by the players. Some of the same problems seemed to occur on a regular basis (i.e. play execution). Yet, the same players continued to play and start. How were the players held accountable for their screw ups? A stern talking? No gold stars? If real accountability existed, I didn't recognize it, and it surely didn't seem to make a difference.

You would be correct. That's because the spread offense is not some "new" creative type of offense. IIRC, the last time a full spread offense (or the closest thing to it) that achieved any kind of success was the Run 'N Shoot. Even in it's heyday, I think only about 3 teams ran it.

I think he was referring to the perception the team seems to lack a certain amount of heart. Nobody on the team seems to be playing with "fear": fear of losing the game, fear of losing their job, etc ... Real accountability does not exist on the Bills. Until it does, the players will only play hard enough to maintain their position.

Jauron is going to call it the "Wild Bill". It will be used in defense of the Wild Cat.

And I have that article. In full, saved on my HDD. Just read it again. Gleason raked Flutie over the coals. Here's the search result from the News archives: And here's the link (costs money to read it): Linky Just reading that brought back a slew of memories. Such as the big number of "long time die hard" Bills fans that came out of the wood work when Flutie was signed, and the same number of "long time die hard" Bills fans that disappeared when Flutie was cut. I also remember lurking on the Charger boards after Fultie was signed, and reading the Charger fans bitching about the "long time die hard" johnny come lately Charger fans that were now appearing. On one board, one of these "long time die hard" Charger "fans" had no idea who Dan Fouts was, but he was sure Flutie would be so much better than him.

"Found these stats posted by Balto at WPI (he didn't link to where he got them, so I'll just have to take his word for their accuracy) and thought it would be an interesting conversation piece:" AND "The second thing that jumps out at you is Jason Peters, LT for the Bills going to the Pro Bowl while giving up the most sacks of any other LT in the NFL (11.5) in only 13 sacks." So, to re-iterate, this guys whole analysis is based on stat he himself cannot verify the accuracy of. Yeah, he knows.

You haven't supplied enough info to give you a really informed opinion, but based on the info you did give: 2004. Without question.

Second.

This does not automatically equate to Doug Flutie being a good QB. During their SB year, the Ravens won more under Trent Dilfer than they did under Tony Banks. Based on Flake logic: Trent Dilfer must be a good QB. See response to A. Based on your own admission, Flutie alone did not do it. Therefore, if he was not alone, than he alone is NOT the reason for the success. Reference: Trent Dilfer, Tony Banks, 2000 Baltimore Ravens 2 hypothetical questions: If the Bills did NOT have a great defense, do you think the Bills would have achieved the same record? If the Bills had John Elway as QB, do you think the Bills would have achieved a similar record? A. I am not an RJ supporter. Your assumption was wrong. B. Regarding NASA and Neil Armstrong, nobody has ever stated the reason a man walked on the moon was due to Neil Armstrong. Contrast that with the Flake insistence Doug Flutie saved the franchise. C. Yes, Flutie was QB of the TEAM that made the playoffs. But that does not automatically equate to Doug Flutie being a good QB. Reference: Trent Dilfer, Tony Banks, 2000 Baltimore Ravens Just ask Trent Dilfer and the 2000 Baltimore Ravens. HOPE THIS HELPS!

What part of "team" don't you get? Suites and tickets were sold because the "team" won. Flutie just happened to be the QB. Why is it so hard to grasp that if the "team" had won without Flutie, the Bills still would have sold the suites, etc ...? It is the most basic concept of football capitalism: win games, sell tickets.

And I think if I had played the lotto last night, I would have won.

A huge ego can be a problem major problem if: The player doesn't have the abilities to back it up The player cannot recognize or refuses to recognize he can/did screw up, or is playing poorly These were Fluties problems. When he was playing poorly, and was called out on it, he never hesitated in pointing fingers at other players, and their mistakes. And if those 3 INTS were because of you, you better accept the blame. Pointing out the failures of somebody else without taking responsibility for your own failures does not create a harmonious working relationship.

Yeah, God knows these players take such a beating during the OTAs

That would depend on what you are looking at. I'll take his first season in Buffalo over his second all the time every time. While he didn't have the yardage (he didn't play in every game either), his other numbers were better. Better accuracy, more TDs, less turnovers, better pass average, etc ...