simpleman

Very few here have said that Barkley has proven to be a Franchise QB. But the figures also don't show that Allen has proven to be any better than Barkley, or that he is has a better chance of being a Franchise QB. I didn't just profess a faith, I showed the figures and statistics and didn't profess any particular faith. Your faith and hope do not matter to anyone but yourself, nor will not make it so in the harsh reality of the real world of pro football. Isn't it logical to give them both chance to prove themselves. Are you afraid to let the reality of playing the games to find out for sure because of your fear it will prove your faith to unfounded? I just want an exciting, winning team. I really don't care if either Allen, Barkley, or someone else is the QB that can make that happen. I don't have a horse in the QB race, or have the prejudices for or against any of the horses. I just want to have it happen.

Barkley has only started 2 more games or 8 more quarters than Allen by your math. And Chicago was a very bad 3-13 team, it was not just the games when Barkley started that they were bad. Judge the players by the games they start and the statistics they actually have. That is apples to apples as close as we can get.

Let us compare apples to apples. Which player has played better in their NFL starting history and their history with this Bills team? How do you know Barkley will not get better with more time and experience with this Bills team, or that Allen will get better and not already is at his ceiling. You don't, and neither do I. Just because you want it to happen does not magically make it happen. Why not try it and see? Season Team Passing Rushing Fumbles G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost 2018 Buffalo Bills 6 5 75 139 54.0 832 6.0 2 5 21 167 61.8 35 155 4.4 3 4 1 2018 Buffalo Bills 1 1 15 25 60.0 232 9.3 2 0 1 8 117.4 3 -2 -0.7 0 -- -- 2016 Chicago Bears 7 6 129 216 59.7 1,611 7.5 8 14 6 43 68.3 7 2 0.3 0 4 2

Just because a player is drafted so high, and costs an obscene amount of draft and player capital to possibly be a franchise QB, does not automatically make him a franchise QB. He was admittedly considered a project QB by the team. And according to the "process" was suppose to sit and learn, practice and keep learning more and more until he was actually "ready" to start. Because of the team's mismanagement he was started much earlier because Peterman crashed and burned in a historically bad way. There was no "Plan B". They were forced to start him. Not because he was suddenly ready, or he "earned" the start by his astounding progress. He showed occasional flashes, but still looked exactly like the raw rookie he was when he was drafted. His faults were not corrected and he did not show great progress in his starts. Maybe he can be a franchise QB in time. But maybe he will never be. Throwing a QB into the game before he is ready is not in any way historically proven to make him better. More starts before he is truly ready does not magically make him better. More polishing does not automatically make everything shinier. If he is not ready to shine yet, he will not shine no matter how many times you polish him. He needs to be ready first. No matter how badly you want him to be your savior, no matter how desperately McBeane wants him to be their savior does not make him THE savior. The fact is that Barkley made the Bills offense look the best they have in years in his first game with the Bills, with minimal practice and preparation. They just clicked. Allen did not do that. There are plenty of games left this year to give the Bills and Barkley another game to see if it was just a fluke, or if it was real chemistry. If Allen truly is the true savior everyone wants to believe he is, one less game among many in an otherwise meaningless season will not suddenly evaporate his savior-hood. If you truly are a believer in "the process" that a player earns his starts by his actions and his play, how has Barkley not earned the right to show whether his play with this Bills team in a live game that counts was just a fluke, or that he actually has the chemistry and the skills to continue to start and win?

As a fan who has endured 18 years of mediocrity I finally enjoyed a game. I would like to give the team and Barkley the chance to prove whether that game was a fluke. Allen was suppose to sit and learn this year. That was even said to be the plan and the "process" for those that actually believed in it. He started early, not because he earned it, or showed he was ready. He started prematurely because the process was so flawed that he was the only choice other than Peterman. He showed in those games that he started just how raw and unprepared he still was. The sacks, the interceptions, the incompletions, the inaccuracy, the poor decision making. The stats for games he played for the Bills show just how bad he was. While the sparkling stats for Barkley's one game with the Bills show a very different story. Let's find out if it was a fluke or not. As most everyone agrees, a game or two will not make or break an already broken season. There will still be plenty of games this year for Allen to be further evaluated if it was simply a fluke game. Maybe, just maybe, Allen will someday be ready and actually have the potential to be a quality QB. He showed that the time was not here for him yet in his previous starts. Like everyone I loved what I saw of of the rookie guard in one game. In one game the rookie WR who had speed, but not good ball skills in his previous started to show flashes the last game. The team is about more than just the QB, it is a whole group of players that need to be evaluated. If Allen comes in and looks as bad as he did in his previous games before he was injured, how can we properly evaluate the speedy rookie, the rookie guard and the newly acquired player who shined on offense in that one game. Yes, this season is effectively over already, but there is plenty of time this year to evaluate the supporting players on offense and see if Barkley's one great game was a fluke. Maybe even spend a couple games tweaking the supporting players on offense for next year before we spend all our efforts on giving Allen the chance to "grow under fire" for a couple of late year meaningless games. And maybe sitting a couple more games to let the Bills build a better group of offensive players that will give him a better chance in his future development would be in his best interest. Unlike others here I do not want to spend the remaining part of the season seeing preseason quality play from the Bills. It is bad enough seeing preseason games while the team weeds out players and gives the players the chance to learn and grow under fire. We accept that trade off. That is what the preseason is for. But having to see 10+ more games of preseason during the real season and no real season is just not acceptable to most reasonable fans of the game. Things worked with Barkley. Why not give the team and Barkley a couple of games to see if they click?

Moderators, this is exactly the type of thread that should be locked and the op should be given a time out ban for. even the title is a personal attack on another poster. This is not about football, or the Bills, it is purely an undisguised personal attack on another poster. SDS, is this what you want this board to be?

Is this sarcasm? Turnaround? From a rock bottom low the Pegula's set. Last year I discussed the Pegula's failures. I compared the Sabres record before they acquired the team and then after. Utter failure. And this year we are only 16 games in and about 50/50 on wins. In the bottom half of the Division. This year it is way too early to see how the team will finish, or call it a turnaround. Getting better from a bar you yourself so low it is set located underground is not a turnaround. The Pegula's have made horrible coaching / GM choices for both the Sabres and the Bills. And Pegula made his fortune by a lucky break in land / resource speculation. If it had not been for a new technology called fraking being advanced after he bought the speculation contracts, he would not be considered a successful businessman today. He did not gain success from managing a business or manufacturing a product. The Pegula's have definitely not shown an aptitude in their hiring decisions. Although in the Rich Mans owner's club called the NFL, once you are in, it is hard to not be successful. No matter your business savvy or ineptitude.

I have said this for a long time. I remember when SDS changed to the newer BB software. He mentioned sub boards. I always wished there could be 3 sub boards. One that was Kool-Aid Drinkers & Rose Colored Glasses, One that was Critics & Doubters and one that was for fans of the game of football where people could discuss football facts, offer solutions, ideas and civil opinions without any bias and where personal attacks on other posters was verboten. You could go to either of the extremes to commiserate and vent with your kindred spirits, or reinforce and recharge your positivity . Or go to the 3rd board and learn legitimate facts, discuss concepts and ideas and explore about football, the Bills, the NFL without personal attacks.

Really, Dak was a 4th round pick. Passer rating of 94. Completion percentage: 64.7 Passing yards: 8,408 TD–INT: 53–21 Passer rating: 94.0 Rushing yards: 875 Rushing touchdowns: 14 This is his contract: Year Age Base Salary (Guaranteed) Bonuses Cap Number Cap % 2016 23 $450,000 $95,848 $0 $0 $0 $545,848 0.4% 2017 24 $540,000 $95,848 $0 $0 $0 $635,848 0.4% 2018 25 $630,000 $95,848 $0 $0 $0 $725,848 0.4% 2019 26 $720,000 $95,848 $0 $0 $0 $815,848 0.4% Total $2,340,000 $383,392 $0 $0 $0 $2,723,392 A majority of NFL teams would be ecstatic to have drafted a starting QB with those stats and that contract from a 1st round pick, not a 4th rounder QB where you are lucky to have drafted a career backup or depth player. Maybe not a Brady, but Brady was a once in a lifetime GOAT.

The owners are the ones that hire the HC and GM. Instead of hiring individuals that have the knowledge, the skills and the temperament to use the business's existing best assets and maximize them to build a successful team, they hire egomaniacs with their own grand plan to tear down everything and rebuild it over according to their own grand vision. In their hubris they cripple the team for years in their effort. In the real world of business where there is true competition and without all the special exemptions and their freedom from oversight and control of anti competitive behaviors those business would be long ago bankrupt. Ownership of an NFL team is all about ego and personal gratification. It is an exclusive club and not a business. In order to join and be a member of the club, you are expected to have to have exclusive control and not have a board or others to answer to. Is it any wonder the owners hire people just like them? Individuals who are infected with oversized egos and hubris who want to do it their way, not the efficient or correct way. Luckily they only have to answer to fans who don't ask tough questions or hold them to standards like a business's investors or customers would.

Wrong answer. KC rated him not only 1st round, but worth 2 1st rounds, and a third. Just shows what competent scouting and drafting for QBs and offensive players looks like . Wish the Bills had that level of competence.

As no saint said, how selective do you have to be to include Brady in your figures.? Mr. Irrelevant, Chad Kelly, was the 256 pick last year. Going back to 2000 is 17 years. 256 * 17 = 4352 selections + the yearly supplemental draft allocations. If we “arbitrarily” went back 17 years to make sure we included Brady, that would be .02 %. Even then we would have to “arbitrarily” decide to round all our figures to the 100th of a percent to account for Brady, rather than deal with whole percentages.

Exactly why would you trade one of your best players for a mid to late round pick? The odds of drafting a starter are less than 50/50 even in the best possible scenario. And given the historic incompetence of our current front office on evaluating offensive talent, it is downright suicide to have to fill the hole you would create. Historic Success Chart The numbers show us the following outline for finding consistent starters: 1st Round - OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%) 2nd Round - OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%) 3rd Round - OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%) 4th Round - DL (37%) TE (33%) OL (29%) LB (16%) WR(12%) DB (11%) RB (11%) QB (8%) 5th Round - TE (32%) DB (17%) WR (16%) OL (16%) DL (13%) RB (9%) LB (4%) QB (0%) 6th Round - TE (26%) OL (16%) DL (13%) WR (9%) DB (8%) RB (6%) LB (5%) QB (0%) 7th Round - DB (11%) OL (9%) QB (6%) WR (5%) DL (3%) LB (2%) RB (0%) TE (0%) https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/2/20/8072877/what-the-statistics-tell-us-about-the-draft-by-round

Again look at the figures. don't use excuses. All the rookies have excuses. None of their teams are that great. Look at the QBR. It is designed to rate the QB himself and take into account the affect the quality the rest of the team around him has on his rating. From Wikipedia Total quarterback rating (abbreviated as total QBR or simply QBR) is a proprietary statistic created by ESPN in 2011 to measure the performance of quarterbacks in American football. It incorporates all of a quarterback’s contributions to winning, including how he impacts the game on passes, rushes, turnovers, and penalties. Since QBR is built from the play level, it accounts for a team’s level of success or failure on every play to provide the proper context, then allocates credit to the quarterback and his teammate to produce a clearer measure of quarterback efficiency.

Enough of the fanboy bias. Enough with the excuses. None of the teams are great surrounding any of the 4 Rookies. Look at the statistics. Look at the QBR. Just the facts. Allen is well below the other rookies. Potential is not reality. It is hope and dreams. Statistics are the reality. At this point Allen is not comparing well at all. (From PFF)

The logical answer is Kaep. But the majority of the posters here are not logical. They are too wrapped up in their personal politics to put winning football first.

Exactly. It was his height that caused teams to hesitate to take a chance on him. It was the lack of that ideal measurable that caused him to drop in the draft. He was not a project, but a gamble due to his height. He quickly proved he could overcome the lack of height and compete in the NFL at a high level.

Exactly!

You are such an expert. Everyone who knows anything about football (that I agree with) talks ... McD is a bottom 3rd rated coach by most everyone. http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/78295/57/nfls-best-coaches-2018?pg=2 https://fansided.com/2018/05/30/nfl-power-rankings-head-coaches-bill-belichick/13/ http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000938541/2018-nfl-coach-rankings:-bill-belichick-and-then-... http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/list/nfl-head-coach-rankings-2018-belichick-tomlin-garrett-mccarthy-gruden-shanahan/xp7hr1sq7b3j1xwyh9543denc/slide/18

Woods was the Bills only miscalculation of the receivers. He was always an above average, reliable receiver. He was not elite, but he was above average and consistent. Also he was an excellent blocker on plays he was not the schemed receiver in. He helped out the O-line and made them look better on running plays. And he spent a season playing injured and still was above average that year. The Bills just were possessed by the ghost of Ralph Wilson and did not want to pay the going rate to keep him here.

I'm no McBeane fan, nor a fan of Zay. But Beane was not GM when Zay was drafted. Many on here will claim that he was a McDermott pick. So the blame would fall there if that is true.

Many of we doubters still doubt, but give credit to those that had great games like Hughes, and Allen, who showed a lot of positive potential. Everyone tries to define exactly what a fan is, and for everyone, it is different. I do believe that being a fan does not mean you must always blindly worship all the players, coaches, and management like many do. I do not wear rose colored glasses and sip the Kool-aid. Some do, obviously. And often the more level headed and realistic posters just let the other type of fan enjoy their Kool-aid with others like them out of a courtesy to them when they get a special win like this past weekend, not because they still don't doubt the overall quality of the coaching, specific players or the management.

How many hypocrites are out there. If a player absolutely stinks on the field and is pulled from the game mid game by the coaches, only to be released the next day by the team. How is this any different. A player can get "fired" or pulled from the game at any time at the will of the team. A player also has the same right to "quit" or retire at any time as well. Rights go both ways. He decided he had enough and retired mid game. A team can decide they have had enough of a player and fire him at any time. It happens almost every week in the NFL. It goes both ways. Enough.

Geez! Get with the program. If they were good, they were not picked by Whaley, it was really a McD pick. If they were bad picks, it was Whaley's fault for them and for the mess he left behind for them to clean up. It also was McD's first year and Beane's first year, so they automatically get a pass, they were still using training wheels. And they were properly focused on the "process" which said that the main purpose in the 17 & 18 seasons was sacrificing 17 & 18 to generate lots of late round picks in 19 and 20 and taking out any "garbage" they did not personally create so they could create huge cap space in 19 & 20. This year is their year one. And it is way to early to judge it yet. It is all part of the greatly, bigly, magically brilliant "process" that must extend 5 or more years before you are allowed to judge it. Don't be so impatient and prematurely critical! All hail the all powerful "Process!