simpleman

If you are going to quote me please do not play the politician and edit the quote out of context to manipulate the truth. People who have no real facts to back up their opinions often resort to manipulations, misquotes and putting their words in other peoples mouths in an attempt to make up for their lack of real facts You left out the important summary line. It seems you have a difficult time differentiating between facts and your own rhetoric. "I'm beginning to think we let the two fight it out the rest of the season as equals and if no one rises above, we have to draft a QB high next year if one is available" I did not say bench him and forget about him, quite the opposite, You did.

That is not what I said. I said that EJ has not shown that he has the potential to be a Franchise QB on the field during the season and that Lewis has so far shown about as much as EJ.(not exactly a stellar indicator) EJ should not be given a pass or favoritism based on being a first round pick. He should have to earn his way. Play them both and if Lewis does not play worse than EJ, let them fight it out, and may the best QB win based on actual performance. Given the current performances of both QBs, it would be prudent to not rule out a QB in next years draft if neither rises above the level of both their mediocre performances.

I waited for someone to persuade me with facts and statistics that either Lewis or EJ deserved to be considered a potential Franchise OB. Or even a decent starting QB. After this thread has progressed, the only thing it has persuaded me is that it is time to start thinking about drafting a QB high next year, because according to the statistics and facts presented so far there does not appear a potential Franchise QB on our roster. I could never handle religion when they told me i just had to believe and have faith. It takes more than that to make me a believer, and nothing I have seen from or about EJ makes me a believer. At the same point in Trent's and JP's careers both of them had shown me more than EJ has shown me, and we all know how well they turned out being our Franchise QB. I'm beginning to think we let the two fight it out the rest of the season as equals and if no one rises above, we have to draft a QB high next year if one is available.

What is the breakdown? Are these offensive, defensive, or ST? If it was defense, I could understand it with the new aggressive stance of the team. Not sure I would want to mess much with things if it is defense, since the defense is winning games for us. But if it is offense, then it is very troubling, they are not winning us much of anything right now.

Okay, I keep hearing that EJ is our Franchise QB. What do you base that determination on? Come on, convince me why EJ is the Franchise QB or Lewis is not. But do not say because he was our first round pick. Where you were picked does not make you a better player, just a player who makes more money and has higher expectations to meet. How is EJ better than Lewis? Give me statistics and facts to convince me, not personal wishes and opinions. Understand I am not saying I believe that Lewis is a Franchise QB. Convince me why EJ is better than Lewis based on his actual play on the field during the regular season. Has EJ had a better long ball in actual games? Has he given up less picks per game on average? Has he given up less sacks per game on average? Has he had a better completion rate? Has he made better decisions? Has he shown better leadership skills? I am not slamming or promoting either player. I want you to convince me that either one has given an actual performance on the field that has shown that he deserves to be considered a potential franchise QB. Remember use statics and actual performance, not opinions and feelings. This is your challenge. Make your case for anointing a Franchise QB for the Bills!

wash, repeat, wash again,repeat +10

Thanks for the info!

ever hear the quote "if at first you don't succeed try, try again"? It is not "if at first you don't succeed, just give up" Winners keep trying till they succeed. Losers giver up and say "we are in a rebuilding year".

Positives: Draft: Trading back and getting the extra pick Making the smart choice on Woods Making a great pick in Kiko Taking the chance on Da’Rick, even if it didn’t work out. Hiring Pettine To be determined: Selecting EJ in the first. He still has not shown much beyond the majority of the pre draft reports that he was a raw developmental player with a great upside. I have not given up on him, but I still would not pass a good bet at a Franchise QB in the draft if one was available with our pick. Very questionable: Hiring Hackett and giving him on the job training instead of getting a polished vet coach Not hiring a QB coach specifically to mentor and polish EJ Hanging on to players too long who have no business being in the NFL Criminal: Letting Lev go without having a solid replacement already lined up Not getting a quality vet QB for backup after Kolb went down. Having such a huge amount of cap space and not using it to bring in quality depth. Of course it does not help that unlike other businesses, the Bills not only don’t get put out of business for consistently delivering a shoddy product year after year. Instead they thrive and profit. Where is the motivation to actually deliver a good product? Imagine a company that sold you a food product that tasted like rotted cabbage for 10+ years straight. Imagine a company that sold you a new car that broke down every year when you took your family on their yearly vacation and it left you stranded half way there. Would you buy that make of car again after each of your 5 new ones broke down 10 + years in a row? Would you buy the same brand of perfume for you wife if the last 10+ years you bought it she smelled like “Ode De Skunk” or “Roeton Eggles” when she put it on? The company would have gone bankrupt long ago, unless its business was actually laundering drug money. Bills fans have allowed the bar judging this organization to be be set way too low.

Does anyone have any inside scoops on exactly what it is that the coaching staff DOES NOT see in Easley? There has to be something really bad that we don't see them giving him a real shot. It is not like giving him a real chance to play WR and him really playing bad is going to ruin our shot at making the wild cards this year (sarcasm meant).

Exactly! :thumbsup:

I for one enjoy this thread, it has been tough being a Bills fan and trying to make up things to get excited about for a long,long time. When we actually have something significant to crow about and get a nice laugh about we need to enjoy it. There has not been anyone like Kiko, who is legitimately playing awesome for more than one game at a time around here for a long time that we could share silly recycled jokes about. And most of us did not have such high expectations of him when he was drafted. He definitely was a great surprise for once.

Amazing, thanks for sharing!

If we are comparing Apples to Apples then I guess we will have a better chance to judge the two on December 1st when we play Altlanta. According to the diagnosis, EJ should be back by then and we can compare the two based on Atlanta if you would like.

No way! We do not yet have existing sufficient #1 receiver talent to replace him. Suddenly we would need to draft a WR high in the next draft to replace him. I would take " a bird (not a Byrd, lol) in the hand" top level wide receiver talent over gambling that we MAY get such talent with a high draft pick next year. We also could end up drafting yet another "Maybin" and end up with yet another critical unfilled hole in our team next year.

I really can't blame the Bills for this. While we may think we have potential on our team, look at it from his point of view. Who has the better O Line to protect him? Who has the better proven TE's? Who has the better proven receiver core of vets? And who has a RB with over 2000 yards last year? He is on a one year contract auditioning for next year's FA. He needs to have the best team TODAY that will let him showcase his skills immediately. He is not looking for a team of unproven rookie receivers who are only going to get better. Or a questionable O Line. He needs immediate performance. The Vikings are a much better bet than the Bills for that. His real risk with the Vikings is will he get on the field, and stay there in enough games to make that impression he needs to make for next year's FA highest bidder contract auction. If he can, the Vikings have the best supporting cast on offense over the Bills. We all know the Bills are in full rebuild mode, and that does not give him what he needs for the NOW! It is not about the future with a team right now for him. It is about proving his worth for the whole league for a big long term contract next year. He is just a hired gun this year.

That's what I thought, but the ref was right there watching the whole play 10ft away so I thought there might be some new rule this year I was not aware of. Was it just me, or was there a noticeable lack of replays by the TV crew? Or was it because of the incredible pace of the game? We never got to see a good view of the uncalled "horse collar", so it was hard to judge. It was great seeing two QBs and receivers on both teams who actually could pass and catch the ball. It is great fun to see two teams shoot it out, especially when you don't have a horse on the field, so you can just enjoy the QB duel.

I was watching the Dallas/Denver game. The receiver was standing in the back of the end zone. With his back to the ball, the defensive player shoved the receiver out of the back of the end zone with two hands. The receiver caught the ball but it was ruled incomplete, since the receiver was out of bounds. The official was standing right there watching the play. Can someone tell me what rule there was that allowed this to not be a penalty?

While I have heard rumors about Freeman's work ethic, I'm not sure about the truth of them. I have never heard that he is limited talent wise. Do you have links, facts to share with us about that. I don't mean just opinions, but actual evaluations. Please feel free to share.

It is interesting that so many are so hung up on our mid/late draft picks. After I listed them for 6 years. It is even worse if you add in the 4th round. Very few hits there either for this team. We really draft bad after the first day. Yet I just read an article on the best CBs in the league on ESPN and almost half were 4th rounders or later, one was even a 6th.

Freeman is the best choice, actually might give Manuel a run for his position when he returns. In the short term I know I will slammed for it, but I forgot about Russell, give him a shot. Hey what do we have to loose if the other choice is Tuel, who will never be a real NFL QB, no matter what the dreamers out there like to imagine. Russell could do the job better than Tuel, just about anyone could.

Still think you are better off using your 5-7 round picks than trading them for proven NFL talent? Let’s go back another three years: 2009 Round Five (147)- Nic Harris LB •Round Six (183)- Cary Harris DB •Round Seven (220)- Ellis Lankster DB 2008 5 - TE Derek Fine 6 - OLB Alvin Bowen 7 - RB Xavier Omon 2007 6 John Wendling S 7) Derek Schouman TE 7 C.J. Ah You DE Yes, Stevie Johnson is the one pick in 6 years, and a very rare exception. And a 9th pick ( 3 7s that year) at that. One player in 6 years.

6 million next year, 7 million the year after. How does he compare to Lev this late in his career ?

With a little over 3 weeks left before the Oct. 29, 2013 4 p.m. ET Trade deadline, I wanted to open a discussion on the validity of a strategy of building your team through trading for proven players rather than using mid to late round picks on players with a low probability of ever becoming impact players. It seems to be a better strategy to build depth using proven players than drafting unknown projects who have never taken a snap in the NFL. It helps lessen the question of "Does College talent actually translate into NFL talent?" It is a big step up from dumpster diving, and it would seem to be a safer bet to get decent players for depth and backup than drafting unknown players. It seems there are many teams who value the draft picks more than depth players, and if a team were to reach out to such a team packaging their mid/late round picks, I wonder if they could fix their depth problems quicker while being as effective as the normal strategy?