simpleman

As much as I’d enjoy seeing Romo play for the Bills this year, he would basically be another expensive bridge QB. It would be in best long term interest of the Bills to avoid hiring a cap expensive QB or taking the option on TT’s contract. Neither TT or Romo are long term solutions. Until the numerous holes are filled in the Bills roster, neither will ever lead the Bills to a Superbowl. It is time to find an inexpensive vet QB, continue developing Jones, and selecting another rookie QB in this years draft.( although not wasting a 1st round pick on talent not worthy of such a pick in a weak draft). Let the vet start, and give each of the youngsters a chance at playing time to evaluate them when the game situation allows it during the regular season. Use the cap savings to resign our most valuable FAs, sign a few FAs for positions of need such as RT, WR & S. Use the draft to fill those holes that we don’t fill in FA. Build the team for the future. And if next year there is a QB in the draft that appears to be a good risk as developing into a Franchise QB when we draft, take him. I know everyone wants an expensive vet QB. But again, we are not even close to being ready to go to the Superbowl with our current roster. Personally I like the idea of trading for someone like AJ McCarron if the required pick is not too much. His contract is miniscule, and he has shown potential in his NFL starts. I don’t see our record being one or two games less than it would be under TT, even in a worse case scenario. A cheap serviceable bridge QB.

For the people here who like to throw out cliched smart ass one liners and don't bother to read a post before they comment. I said: Dumpster diving sometimes works out, if you do it enough you occasionally may win. But you waste a lot of resources and time and energy dealing with the much more prevalent losses. The problem is when like with the Bills, it becomes a major part of your developmental strategy. A strategy like that could get you a league leading 17 year record of missing the playoffs, frustration and futility. For those that prefer cliched smart-ass on-line comments to informational, documented, thought out discussions : "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while"

If you want to look at 20015, lets look at it: Ritchie was released by his team for off field issues. It was not for lack of talent or performance, but well documented off field issues. He was the only dumpster dive that worked out that year. We definitely took a gamble and lucked out with Ritchie, but everyone knew he could play, he was just being black balled by the league because of off field issues. But his issues were never about his level of play. He was a gamble only because of those off field issues. I would not call Taylor a dumpster dive. He was a promising QB who was stuck behind a top solid Franchise QB with virtually no chance to be a starting QB there. His team understood his desire to start and let him go at the end of his contract. Felton chose to not exercise his option year, and went looking for hopefully greener pastures, like Taylor, he was no dumpster dive. Wynn was a dumpster dive, and was released by the Bills and never played again in the NFL. Simms was released the day after his first and only preseason start for the Bills in which he played one ugly error filled game. Connor was signed and released before the season even started. After being signed and released by the Bills, Carrington was signed and released by Houston before the preseason and has not played since. We all know how well Harvin has worked out for the team. He had talent, but was a gamble for attitude, injury concerns and questions about his character. He was a similar gamble to Ritchie, we just lost that gamble. Dumpster diving sometimes works out, if you do it enough you occasionally may win. But you waste a lot of resources and time and energy dealing with the much more prevalent losses. The problem is when like with the Bills, it becomes a major part of your developmental strategy. A strategy like that could get you a league leading 17 year record of missing the playoffs, frustration and futility.

The Bills have a history of understating injuries. May be back in time for season in best case scenario , but also possible lost season, could even be career threatening for an OT having a hip injury that affects future mobility and effectiveness. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/191868-cyrus-kouandjio-injures-hip-in-fall-at-home;-has-surgery/?p=4234660

As I previously posted Ricky Wagner , RT previously of Baltimore would be my preference.. Re: The Bills addiction to Dumpster Diving.

It all depends on your priorities. And how important you believe the Oline is to the success of the offense and winning. Personally, considering the potential of getting a starting RT in the draft is poor this year beyond the 1st round, and our high picks this year are needed elsewhere. FA is the best way to finish our O-line. We are a decent RT away from having a top quality O-line. I feel that while TT is a passable bridge QB, his contract is a detriment to building a playoff worthy team. If you don't pick up his huge contract, you not only have the cap space to resign Gillmore, you can afford to resign most of your own FAs you feel are worth resigning with the exception Woods. And you can sign a Free agent RT that will start immediately and finish the line to allow whomever your bridge QB is to play to his maximum potential. I would prefer Ricky Wagner for his experience at RT, his versatility and his age, but would be open to Reif if he was willing and able to switch to RT. Recently losing the option of having Kujo at swing tackle makes the option even more appealing.

A choice that Buffalo did not have to make. But again, their incompetence in contracts caused the problem. TT could have played for $5 million dollars less last year and proven himself worthy of a rich contract this off season. But like the contract they gave Fritz too early, they created their own downfall. Hogan could still be here and the team could have been better going into 2017, along with having the rest of the $5 million to improve the rest of the team rather than using their cap hell as another excuse for failure. But as was said, like Lev before him and others, the Bills never learn. They get themselves needlessly in trouble by bad financial decisions, and even when they judge a player's worth right, they never have a well thought out plan B to replace a player with someone of a similar talent level, other than to fantasize that a dumpster dive player will do just fine to replace them. Anyone could see they had no clear, reliable options at WR beyond Watkins & Woods. We may have a different owner now, but the Bills Front office still suffers from an addiction to dumpster diving.

If I was able to predict the future that reliably I would be too busy right now traveling the world engaging in excessive debauchery and gluttony instead of getting ready to try and make enough this week to pay my bills. It is a 50/50 gamble at best.

Wow, I heard Aaron Maybin was next.

Rated as 22nd best pass rusher on PFF. Even beat out by Hughes on his own team. Don't tell me you would choose him over any of the top 10 on the list if you could choose your own team players in the NFL. He was good, but not in any way Pro Bowl great. https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-the-nfls-top-25-pass-rushers/ It is about your overall performance, not one single statistic.

I'm not saying Lorax, Gillmore, Brown did not have a decent year in general, but a Probowl worthy year, no way! If you are not even in the top ten rated at your position, you should not be playing in a Pro Bowl. These replacement invites have reached embarrassing levels of mediocrity. Richie and Kyle earned it. The others were signs of honor-rot in the Probowl. I would like to see the list of those that turned down or were ineligible due to being in the SB or injured before they went down the list far enough to select them, it must have been massive.

TT could win a Superbowl if he went to a team like Denver with a defense that won the game a few years ago. They won not because of their Qb, but overcame the drag Peyton created that year. I seriously doubt TT will ever win a Superbowl, but he might win it if the team had a defense rare enough to overcome his mediocrity. But that Denver team was a rare team, and it is no longer even that rare team. I don't see him going to another team and a situation like that other than Denver. Houston might be able to overcome a mediocre QB, they even had an echo of a chance with a seriously crappy QB in NE. But I don't see them being able to afford using up $30 to $40 Million in cap on their crappy QB's contract dead money and TT's cap hit. None of the other teams mentioned for TT to land in are good enough to overcome his mediocrity and make it to the Superbowl.

Britt would be nice, but if we keep TT and his monster cap, or bring in a high cap vet to replace him, I can't see us affording the cap space he would require.

I agree on the WR. Keep Watkins, Clay and McCoy. Hunter at the right price. Listenbee has not really had his shot yet, his speed replaces Goodwin. Give him his shot to prove his worth (or not) early. Tate stays primarily for special teams, not for great skills at WR, but is depth. While a Williams or a Davis would be ideal, I would prefer to trade back if possible and grab one of the remaining of the top 5 Qbs. Pick up a RT in FA to fill the hole at RT using the money we would spend to resign Woods. No excuses then about the Oline by the WRs or Qbs. Neither Williams or Davis will be there if we trade back, we need those extra early picks with so many holes. We also need a Safety in the 2nd. If we get extra picks in 2nd or 3rd I'd like 1 or more WRs: The below all are very willing blockers, will mix it up over the middle, are fighters to gain yards after the catch. Have height and run decent routes. Not speed demons, but we have Listenbee to try at speed and we have Watkins for that. Cooper Kupp If late 2nd or later http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/2006951/cooper-kupp http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=123920&draftyear=2017&genpos=WR https://walterfootball.com/draft2017WR.php https://nflmocks.com/2016/07/31/cooper-kupp-wr-e-washington-2017-nfl-draft-scouting-report/ http://withthefirstpick.com/2016/11/19/2017-nfl-draft-eastern-washington-cooper-kupp-scouting-report/ Malachi Dupre: 3rd or later http://withthefirstpick.com/2016/08/05/2017-nfl-draft-lsu-malachi-dupre-scouting-report/ https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-top-nfl-prospects-every-position-2017/ http://nflmocks.com/2016/08/03/malachi-dupre-wr-lsu-2016-nfl-draft-preview/ http://draftbreakdown.com/players/malachi-dupre/ http://draftblaster.com/2017-NFL-Draft/schools/lsu/malachi-dupre-wr/ http://www.thasportsjunkies101.com/malachi-dupre-scouting-report/ Karel Hamilton – late round,ufa http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=1004703&draftyear=2017&genpos=WR

I would not spend a 1st or 2nd on a Wood replacement, but he even is compared to him. We will need to replace him eventually, but Groy allows us to take our time. RT is greater need THIS year. Pat Elflien- http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1983779/pat-elflein http://withthefirstpick.com/2016/09/13/2017-nfl-draft-ohio-state-pat-elflein-scouting-report/ http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2017pelflein.php http://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Draft-Scouting-Reports/Scouting-Report-Pat-Elflein.asp http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1983779/pat-elflein

Quick fixes for the OL in 2017. Provide protection for our QB to develop . If we are serious about developing a QB now and trying to win now, not waiting for a rookie to develop. The RT Free Agents: Ricky Wagner 27, is the prize of the group. The competition will be tough with him being targeted by a lot of teams. Could be $7-9 Million a year cap. A few improvements over Mills. Probably the next best choice, but a big drop from Wagner Mike Reemers 27 Anyone know much about: Marshall Newhouse 28 What Free Agent RT would you target, and why?

If you are looking for bridge or caretaker vet QB while you develop your rookie QBs. Use TTs cap space to develop the talent around the QB. Get a quality FA RT and your line is solid for a few years. Draft a WR high this year to be #2. A slot guy who runs goods route, good hands opposite Watkins. How about a trade for AJ McCarron. Last year of contract, Cinci is said to want to trade him. He wants to go somewhere to start. Brought back Cinci in a playoff game and almost won it a year ago. 97 QB rating, 3 year vet. Played well the year he started a number of games when Dalton was injured.May not be a Franchise QB, but might be a reasonably cost effective bridge QB that could be almost as good as TT for a lot less cap space. ($745,413) http://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/1/16/14247260/aj-mccarron-franchise-qb-potential

You really believe Houston is going to pay TT at least $12 million a year. (What Fitz got last year as a comparable QB). Brock is either 19 Million or 25 Million in dead cap. That is $32 to 37 Million for an averge bridge QB.. Yes, they have a lot of cap, but that is still a big bite for a QB who might get you to the playoffs with their D, but does not have what it takes when you are behind in the playoffs. And they are going to have to spend over $10 million to retain Bouye. If I'm spending $30 + million for a QB in the effort to make the Superbowl, he has to be much better than just average. I spend more and get one that is very good or not wasting the cap.

I think what he is saying is a WR catches the ball, is not tackled, but runs back trying to find a better hole for forward progress and is then tackled a few yards back from where he first caught the ball.

I don't disagree that TT is an average, mediocre QB. The issue is the huge cap hit the front office built into his contract. Not TT's fault the front office created the contract. (especially since they didn't even need to do it last year.) But it is just that if it is between being able to rebuild the team and resign Gilmore, or keeping TT another year, I would choose keeping Gilmore. TT is a bridge QB at absolute best. He is not the future. Gilmore could be an important piece for another 5 years. TT will not be an important piece beyond this year. Another cheaper, average bridge QB allows the team to build for the future this year and see if they can develop either the rookie or Cardale into a decent QB. Even if the other vet is slightly less than TT, it won't matter. I would rather build the team this year and have a 6-9, 7-9 record than have an 8-8 or 9-7 record, still miss the playoffs, and have to start the building the team next year, taking yet another year to get a playoff spot.

My dream draft is exactly this. A decent opportunity for a trade up to the mid first and an extra 2nd. If Davis or Williams surprisingly are there, grab them for the QB to throw to. They have Watkins & one of them as 1st & 2nd WRs, they have McCoy & Clay(who can catch) plus Hunter and the others. If one of the top 5 is in the 2nd, you grab Kizer, Mahomes or Kaaya. You use the other pick for the BPA for the Safety position. If one of the 2 WRs isn't there, you grab your highest rated QB in the first with your traded pick and grab the best WR in the 2nd (maybe Kupp, good hands, height, decent slot routes). Use TT's money for resigning Gilmore. Get a FA RT and you have a line to protect your QB properly and the top talent to move the ball. You get a vet bridge QB by trade or FA and let them compete with the new rookie and Cardale to start. Or let the vet start and work one of Cardale or the rookie into the game over the season if neither is deemed ready by the coaching staff at season start. Use the rest of the picks to fill the D needs, and even pick up Kelly with a late rounder for a gamble, if he is still there. You have a team ready to challenge for a playoff round. If you strike out,and have a bad year you have the OL and offensive talent structure built and are ready to grab a QB high in 2018.

If you have short yardage or a late game lead why would you sit one of the best fullbacks in the league. Late game lead,sit on the lead, protect the ball. Run safe plays which are runs with our personnel. On short yard go with our strength, the run game. Felton in a smart big body to open that hole. We don't have Brady to make those reliable short throws. And you want to keep TT. Who can't see the short field or throw to the middle.

:thumbsup:

Sorry Baaad, I misunderstood what you were saying. I agree. I even agree that if the pick was not too high I would trade for McCarron. He has it between the ears. He would be a perfect game manager while we develop our QB of the future. He may not have the cannon for maximizing Watkins, but he could be there making us competitive at a reasonable price. If the cap price was low enough we could sign our own FAs the new coach wants, bring in a top quality FA RT. Whoever we develop, building a solid O Line to protect them like Dallas has is #1 priority in my mind. I would prefer we look for a trade down partner that still allowed us to draft a top 5 QB. We have so many needs. We need 1,if not 2 starting S, I assume Williams will do what is best for his health and retire, I have always been a Graham fan, but think the wear and tear is getting the best of him, not sure he would last the season at S anymore. We need to draft a #2 WR high. Woods is good but will not be worth what someone will be willing to pay for him.We need a bookend for Watkins. If we either let TT go or (doubtful) he agrees to renegotiate, we can afford to try to resign Gilmore under the cap and bring back the new coach's choices on Brown, Lorax. Assuming we go to a 4-3 DC, our needs at D are not as overwhelming as it appears now.(assuming Kyle stays one final year) If the new coach wants to maximize Watkins and a speedy deep passing game I could live with a Glennon as an interm QB while we develop our new QB from among our new draft choice and CJ. I do worry about his turnover potential, but he has the arm to make them all. I would even be willing to gamble a high draft pick on Kelly in addition to the top 5 QB pick. High picks rarely work out anyway, take a gamble. Let the Vet whoever it is, CJ and new rookie fight it out for the starter. If one actually outplays the vet, give them a shot, otherwise develop them this year and let them fight it out again next year. Unless TT is willing to renegotiate his cap hit, he should be gone. The time to build for the future starts this year. Give whoever the QB is the protection by building the Oline and giving them a bookend #2 for Watkins.

In a world without a tight cap keeping TT might make sense. But in order to field a quality team and start building for the future,TT's cap just causes too much damage for his positives. That big chunk of cap over the next two years could be used to resign some of own (Gilmore, Brown, Lorax.) And bring in some FAs to fill the gaps. If he was willing to renegotiate I would have no problem. But someone will be willing to way overpay him. His cap is just too expensive for his contributions. The contract is not his fault, the Front Office put themselves in this spot and now has to live with the consequences yet again of needlessly painting themselves in a cap corner.