Donald Duck

do you know what intentional means

Michael also writes some real good Bills reports/ articles,

These guys are moving at a very high speed Scraps,ever think maybe the offensive players movements/reactions have something to do with it, takes two to tango, the D can't read minds. why is a player going to intentionally cost his team 15 yards, Or cost himself thousands of dollars. Plus, Going helmet to helmet does not discriminate from one person to the other as far as concussions go, it could knock them both out of commission. It shouldn't be a penalty to begin with unless you want to start penalizing the Offense for doing the same thing, but regardless, it was not an intentional helmet to helmet hit in my opinion

lol, great job as usual Michael, love looking through your pics

I admit I'm reaching for straws on the high diving, its not a good comparison As I said in a previous post, Kevin Everett's injury had nothing to do with improper tackling techniques. One of my points however is why should the defense get penalized for something offensive players continue to do, which is lead with their head. If I did Dorkington, I would design and develop the helmet protection I spoke of in my original post along with the swivel/flex neck brace that connects the helmet to the shoulder pads and make it mandatory for my players to wear.(with the leagues permission) Plus teach them proper tackling techniques and anything else I could do to protect the players. I'm not disputing some of the already known facts and ways to help prevent serious injury, but its not enough.

hehe

Yes Shrader, I can be very hard headed sometimes...

I like to debate things and calling me a troll for doing so is brilliant buddy, nothing better to say, attack the poster, I know how it goes, Good Lord, common sense would tell you bigger splash means harder impact then preferred has occurred somewhere on the divers head or body. This thread was started in an effort to discuss ways to protect players from helmet to helmet collisions. I admit proper tackling techniques would be one of them. I also admitted to DrDare from a medical standpoint lowering your head increases the chance of severe spinal column injury. I respect the Docs opinion and have no argument that what he says is true. Its common knowledge and nothing new to me. With that being said I'm damn sure not going to admit proper tackling techniques or keeping your head up is going to stop all severe spinal chord injuries from happening in the game of football because its simply not true. So don't call me dense because I'm searching for a solution to a problem that is life threatening/ altering to athletes we know and love. You don't like my thread, don't post on it...

Let me repeat this, Marc Buoniconti: the new rules are going to put officials in a tough position. "There are going to be other instances where people are having head to head contact and it's not intentional," Buoniconti said. "It's hard to play football and not hit your head, it's nearly impossible." So a statement from a player that has actually suffered the injury isn't good enough for you... I did not say to lower your head anywhere on this thread, but players damn sure do it and it will never change How about watching some of the RB's in the NFL and see how many times there head is lowered when making contact with the defensive players. It happens all the time

I'm damn sure not totally wrong in saying you are not going to get every player on the football field to get there head up on impact and to suggest so is stupidity.

Marc Buoniconti: the new rules are going to put officials in a tough position. "There are going to be other instances where people are having head to head contact and it's not intentional," Buoniconti said. "It's hard to play football and not hit your head, it's nearly impossible."

Do you have a point here besides calling my comparison stupid? High diving is another high impact sport, at 50 ft the water is like hitting concrete, at 100 it could kill you. You guys are making a huge deal out of using proper tackling techniques and it had nothing to do with half the serious neck injuries that have occurred in the game of football. So what your saying is proper tackling techniques will help the Offense now also, talk about stupid...

Just like players put their forearms out in front of them to lessen impact, but you don't see divers tilting there head up to protect themselves from spinal injury do you. Never said to tilt your head forward, I said to leave your head in its normal position. No God did not intend for us to do some of the things we do and is why protection devices are created for when we do them. No argument on the 200 lbs falling on you from above...dead

hehe, from a medical standpoint I'm not totally disagreeing with you Doc, but you are asking to much from an athlete in my opinion to think proper tackling techniques are ever going to solve the problem of helmets impacting helmets at a high velocity on a football field. As I said in a previous post, DB's are looking to dislodge the football with vicious hits(not tackle) and If you can slam into them as an offensive player head first then the defensive player should be able to do the same. Or Start calling a penalty both ways. Better to increase protection where needed on the head and neck or take the helmets off completely. Note: The added padding on the top of the helmet I'm suggesting/stripes down the center(original post) would also decrease impact on the spinal column in my opinion, especially in conjunction with a neck brace which should become mandatory for all players

We automatically protect our face regardless of wearing a face mask because the top and back of your head is a hell of a lot more durable then your face. Maybe you can tell yourself Doc that in a split second by bringing your head up you will have less chance of spinal injury, but most people are going to react naturally and protect their face in my opinion. We're not robots... Actually just the opposite and that's my point ball of Beer, you keep your head positioned normal, not turned up.

Dive into the water from a high elevation and see what happens If you bring your head up and look at the water when you hit. This premise that keeping your head up is safer depends on certain variables like how your body is positioned on impact. Standing/running upright is one thing, leaning forward on the run is another. How is your head any safer then the way God intended it, which is sitting straight on your body. I've worked a lot of construction and when someone says heads up from above you do not bring your head up to look, you let your hardhat take the brunt of the force squarely on the top or you will get injured or killed. again, its a natural reaction to duck ones head and protect the face on high impact.

Death from head injury occurs frequently because of the whiplash effect it has on your brain inside the head. Same way shaking a baby hard can cause severe injury. appreciate the insight Doc hehe

Just because I'm still debating the issue doesn't mean I'm not absorbing/respecting your opinion Doc, but on the other hand neck injuries can occur in both instances and for you to imply otherwise is incorrect. ducking ones head is a natural reaction vs smashing into something face first. The difference here is players are going to touch/ get burned on the hot burner because it just goes with the territory. There are no actual percentages(that I'm aware of) to differentiate between injuries occurring with the head up or injuries to the neck that occur with the head down. More injuries are occurring with the head down in the NFL and other sports because the head is down more often then not on high impact collisions.

There are very plenty of folks out there who do have actual playing experience that disagree with penalizing the defense for leading with the head. As far as googling spinal chord injuries,(shrader) its under the premise the player will see whats coming at him and protect his head and neck accordingly and less to do with the actual impact, or how its distributed. Head up, less injuries occur because the player reacts accordingly. Again, its a natural reaction to duck ones head vs smashing your face into an oncoming object.

Why the insult? No, I'm not in my 20's and common sense in my opinion should tell you its not fair for the offense to lead with their head and not the defense. Hits with the shoulder or shoulder tackles are just as frequent as anything else and DB's are looking to dislodge the football/prevent reception nine times out of ten, not tackle with proper tackling techniques.

Respectfully disagree Doc, Helmet to Helmet contact will never go away, better to come up with solutions to prevent injury when it happens then to ask players to do something that is next to impossible. Neck support with swivel/flex capabilities connecting the helmet to the shoulder pads in the back would go a long way in preventing spinal chord injuries just like padding on the outside of a helmet will reduce whiplash

The blow is more evenly distributed and partially absorbed through the shoulder pads when your head is straight. Turning your head up on impact would increase the chance of severe injury in my opinion.(break your neck) Bend down and then hold your head all the way and tell me how your neck is going to bend further without breaking. RB's lower there head constantly plowing for more yards, why can they do it and not the defense? Again, ducking your head is a natural reaction vs smashing your face into an oncoming obstacle.

When you are leaning forward on a full run, expecting a player to hold his head up on contact is not even possible in my opinion. Players are not robots programed to smash their face into oncoming objects. Also sounds like a good way to break your neck. Ducking ones head is a natural reaction.

So whats your saying is it was a deliberate blow knowing he was going to get penalized and I disagree.

Good example Dr Dare, In my opinion there is a good possibility the defender meant to make a shoulder tackle but because of the speed and inability to precisely time the hit/placement the players ended up going helmet to helmet. Nobody with any common sense wants to cost their team 15 yards.