Turbosrrgood

Yeah, I understand that concept, but I was responding to the statements in bold. I don't think you have to wait 3 years to evaluate the 41st pick in the draft. I think you DO draft a guy for his 1st contract (after all, they are earning top talent money), and you want him to play right away if they are a 1st or 2nd round pick...Is this concept really that difficult?

Nice post, your evidence clearly points to you being right...whatever your point is... Facts, I like it...

I really like Nelson, he should get more playing time...By FAR the best hands on the team (I know, doesn't say much). SJ is good, but he doesn't have half the year he had without Lee Evans drawing double coverage on almost every play. Also (this may upset some), SJ does not have good hands. He is good (especially for a 7th round pick), and I am very happy to have him start opposite Lee evans. However he does NEED that threat opposite him to keep him open. I agree, with most...that Parrish is too small, and has done too little. He didn't even look good returning kicks recently. Easley looks like he has potential, but don't forget this is a 4th round pick that has never seen an NFL field, and is coming off major injury. Jones shows skill at times but is erratic with questionable hands, can he improve? Maybe, but for now I see him as a 4th or 5th option at best. Don't count on Naaman making the team, they have Felton Huggins who looked a little better to me, and is bigger. They might make a FA addition as well. My top 5 guess...Evans, SJ, Nelson, Easley, Jones/Huggins/someone not on the team yet....Ok that's more than 5

I know what you are saying, but unfortunately the Bills have yet to prove them wrong...

Some players take time fine, but if they are 1st or 2nd round picks I want them to show SOMETHING in their first few years..Yes, I commented on exactly what he said, not on some special meaning you are inferring from what he said. The suggestion that it is OK for top tier draft picks to not make any impact as a rookie, or especially as a sophomore, is not something the Bills or their fans should accept IMO. If you feel differently, that's your right.

+100...Bills fans have been beaten down by so many bad draft picks that they think they aren't actually supposed to be good right away... The fact of the matter is, most teams want to win now and expect their early picks to make contributions right away. Maybe not even start, but at least show they can make a difference... It is definitely fair to comment on draft picks that have done next to nothing, such as Maybin, Troupe, Spiller, ect... Doesn't mean they can't turn it around and surprise us, but are disappointments so far.

With Wannstedt now in the mix, that is a real possibility...

Lol, now you are completely making stuff up... No, I never said that about either of them. Please don't put words in my mouth. I said that he looked awful, was a reach, and that I hope as much as anyone that he turns it around. I am commenting on what he has done, not on what people are guessing he might do. I never said he couldn't improve...You seem to be ignoring my posts that don't make your point... This was a post about Troupe, I offered my opinion...Sorry if that upsets you.

Do you not get the concept of what he is saying? He is saying that you can't judge a player in the first 3 years, and that a guy should only be judged on whether he received a second contract. Personally I think players taken in the first 2-3 rounds should have an immediate, positive impact on the team...Like many other teams get out of their draft picks...Saying that we shouldn't judge players we draft for a couple years is simply a way of making excuses for poor draft picks Let me re-post it.. This makes even less sense when you remember that the Bills rarely resign top level talent (Clements, Pat Williams...). But they do resign guys like Kelsey...

What concerns me is that we have one really good guy, but he's not big enough (KW, shouldn't be a NT in my opinion). Then we have some really big guys, but they aren't good enough. It bothers me that we passed on all sorts of good NT's (Raji, Ngata,...) in recent drafts, then picked up these "projects" that are long shots to ever be real performers. On the plus side, I think Nix does have a clue, and showed that in this years draft...At least we have Dareus... I also like the fact that the Bills finally dumped Modrak and tried to improve their scouting (about 10 years too late, but hey, better than never)

Wow, thankfully you aren't our GM. So when we sign our 1st and 2nd round picks to 4-6 year contracts we don't expect them to do anything during that time? That's half their career. Pardon me if I don't buy into that philosophy, lol. There are plenty of players, especially in the 1st two rounds that secure starting spots and play extremely well...Just because the Bills haven't drafted any doesn't mean thats how it should be...

A lot of optimists here defending troupe. The fact of the matter is he looked awful last year (the main reason why he stopped getting playing time). I hope as much as anyone that Troupe magically turns things around (yes, I know he was just a rookie). Let's not forget that the Bills drafted him WAY too early. I remember watching ESPN and watching the announcers scramble through their papers trying to figure out who he was (after all, he played for UCF). This was a guy that probably could have been had in the 4th round or later. If they had drafted him then, there wouldn't be these expectations of an "instant starter". But when you draft a guy with what is almost a 1st round draft pick (41st overall), a starter is what you should have. So far McCargo has shown a lot more than Troupe unfortunately...

It would have been tough, and expensive...but pretty sweet. Looks like he made the right decision with super bowl ring and everything though. That's hindsight though, at this point I am happy that the FO put in the effort to try and improve by bringing in Wanndstatd as others have mentioned. I like the above mentioned pickups, our last two coaches were WAY worse (Mularkey/Jauron now OC/DC's).Honestly though, Ralph is pretty "frugal". He refuses to spend to the cap or sign virtually any free agents. Having said that we ARE one of the smallest markets, with some of the lowest ticket prices. So without seeing his books, maybe we just simply can't afford it. As far as the "nobody wants to come to Buffalo" mentality", I am in full agreement. Just because we had some losing seasons doesn't mean coaches and players won't come here...we just have to make the right play for them. If the FO shows players an coaches they are serious about improving, they will come. The Wannstedt signing shows just that...

Shanahan to the Redskins. The Bills had a better record than the Skins, a better team. I am sure Ralph would have have given him the keys to the castle...The difference money, there was no way Ralph was going to outbid Snyder. There were not many teams going after Shanahan, it was basically the Bills and Washington. +1, my feelings exactly. The fact that Nix quickly realized Edwards couldn't handle the D coordinator job and looked for a way to improve was a very positive sign.

For one, Dom Capers was available last year (now super bowl champion). My point was that Edwards is a BAD coach. We managed to hire Gailey, who at least has SOME track record. We interviewed Shanahan, there was no way we were going to match Washington (even though they sucked too) though. Whats the difference between the Bills and Washington? MONEY. Also, I never said we had to go after a "big name guy". There are plenty of college, and NFL assistants that can be had at a price the Bills CAN afford. They just selected one that hasn't proven the ability to be a successful coach. And no, I am not going to name them all, if you don't believe it that's fine by me. According to your logic, the Bills will have to be the worst team in football for all of history, because it would be impossible to get any decent coach or player to sign here...Sorry, don't agree with that.. For one, Dom Capers was available last year (now super bowl champion). I never said the Bills needed a "name" coach...And if the Bills went after Capers, maybe they could have had him. Or any other number of assistants in the NFL or college. Throwing money at a coach DOES work (See Shanahan...), sure there may be a few coaches that can "pick" their situations. But many, especially up and coming ones, will go to the highest bidder. After all there is no guarantee they will ever get another shot at that salary again... I am fine with hires of Nix and Gailey, at least they have some record of success. "5) The Bills have sucked for the vast majority of their existence. 6) The Bills are perceived, real or not, that any time they manage to get a good player, said player ends up on another team when their rookie contract expires, if not sooner. " Yeah, this is my point. Players and coaches are more than willing to stay if the Bills PAY. But they won't. If you think the Bills have to suck for eternity, because they have sucked recently. Why are you a fan? Why bother posting to these boards?

Yeah, I'm not arguing that the Bills don't draw a lot of interest. I guess I am not following the point you are trying to make. My original point was that George Edwards sucks, not sure what this has to do with that. No one forced the Bills to sign Edwards, there are dozens of other candidates out there. Trying to say that it is impossible to hire a good coach because we are the Bills is a little ridiculous. If you spend the money, you can get a coach. Especially young aspiring ones looking for an opportunity.

Yeah, he never has... Agree completely. Wannstedt isn't the greatest coach by anymeans, but he is a huge step up from Edwards. I think we will see a difference.

Yeah I guess that's the problem isn't it. But I think better d-coordinators would be willing to take the job if we were willing to pay good coordinator money...Which Ralph obviously is not willing to do. We probably would have been better off with a college prospect coach, then a proven weak NFL one.

I just re-read this post no one was saying that they "love" this RB or that he is a "sure fire stick". Personally I liked the pick in the 5th round, since the Bills have no quality depth after Jackson and Spiller. Thought he looked good in limited action in college.

I can sum this up even better...George Edwards. This reminds me of the Mularkey hire...A guy that ruined the Steelers offense, only to see it rebound as soon as he left, he then went on to ruin the Dolphins offense...With the Bills offense in between. Why hire a guy that never ran a good defense in the 1st place? Edwards was the LB coach for Miami, during which time they struggled as a 3-4 defense, especially the LB's! So what do we do? HIRE HIM! I'm sure he came cheap, just like all of the other Bills coaches. But focus your blame there. It doesn't help that they took a bunch of 4-3 players, and made them play in a 3-4 (Kelsey, POZ, Stroud, Kyle Williams, basically the most important positions on the front 7)...

As much as we all like Kyle Williams, he was far from "Anchoring the line". Kyle has a tremendous motor, and is an excellent pass rushing and penetrating tackle....But he is simply too small to be an effective 3-4 NT, its just not what he does...He can't plug up the middle when teams run straight ahead, it led to teams getting 5 yards on almost every rushing play and especially 3rd downs. I am not blaming Williams for the Bills D, he was one of, if not THE, best player on the team. The problem is he shouldn't be playing that position. The fact that we had NO good LB's last year, mean't we couldn't get away with it. Honestly though, I put most of the blame on Edwards (D coordinator). This guy was awful with Miami, who had one of the worst 3-4 defenses in the league with him. For those who hate Kelsey, blame Edwards (and Nix). Kelsey is a pure 4-3 DE (and a decent one), but another guy who was playing out of position. He should not be an OLB. Then you have guys like Stroud, overrated and past their prime...not to mention AGAIN being forced to play a position he was not meant for. POZ? again, not his position, he is NOT a 3-4 LB. When the Bill D finally started mixing in 4-3 defenses, and guys could play their natural positions (Williams, Stroud, Kelsey)..They actually looked pretty good. Hopefully with Wannstedt here now we see more of that, and less of Edwards's mess of defense. The guys that we had that were actually playing THEIR position, were just plain bad. Dwan Edwards did almost nothing the entire season except get pushed arround. Our young guys Troupe (Who is overrated and was picked WAY too early), and Carrington rarely even saw the field. Edwards brought his garbage from Maimi (Ayodele, he was bad enough with Maimi, and was AWFUL with the Bills). Davis used to be decent, but he's old and past his prime. Merriman...Oh thats right, he never played....Torbor, I never understood why anyone EVER though this guy was good. He was a weak link on the giants... Wow, what a mess.

Doesn't remind me of Dwayne wright at all. Wright was a pure power back, with virtually no agility or speed. If you are just comparing where they went in the draft (Wright was a 4th?), then I guess that makes sense. At this point in the draft at this position you look for depth and hope for more...

Omon came from a small school, and did not play against anyone near NFL caliber. There is no way of knowing if a guy like White will be successful in the NFL, but with the 5th round pick it is a low risk high reward situation.

That was my exact thought. I was so excited to see Newton and Miller go first. I really thought he was the best overall player and the "safest" by far. It also just so happens that this filled by far our biggest need...D line help. Dareus SHOULD be pissed he wasn't taken first...he simply was the best player in the draft. Newton was WAY overrated once Luck dropped out, he has upside but WAY too much risk. Miller may be good, but he is more of a pure pass rusher...Why would teams even try to pass against the Bills when we can't stop the run? He was smallish, like all of our other LB's. He just wasn't a fit for us. Of course he hasn't played yet and I'm still getting flashbacks of Mike Williams so I'll wait until he hit's the field before getting too excited. But before the draft this guy was #1 on my board by a mile....

I'm glad you brought this up. I really liked this pick. The Bills definitely needed more depth at RB with Jackson the starter and Spiller a "specialist". The 5th round was the right time, White seems to have the right combination of size, speed, and most importantly the ability to hit the hole. Also, this guy has fresh legs. He didn't get a ton of carries in college, which is the main reason he fell so far. He will see playing time in Gailey's offense, and is great protection in case Jackson gets hurt