Turbosrrgood

I was specifically talking about OL, so I thought you were too. Maybe you should actually bother reading the posts to determine what was being discussed. Offensive lineman Ok, you just proved the point you were trying to fight...All of those players you named were lower level free agents when they were signed, not one of them was a "big name" signing (maybe TO, but no other team wanted him). They were all guys that had a "decent showing". So this post proves that not only is Ralph cheap, but that when he does actually sign someone, he has no idea what the contract should be worth.... Having said that, if you read my whole post you would have noticed that I LIKE what they are doing this year. They picked up one of the best available free agent LB's in Barnett, at just a 12 mil contract. The signed Florence to a 15 mil contract. These signings were way more valuable than the Dockery/Walker signings, at half the price. Maybe Nix actually knows what he is doing, and is actually calling the shots...

First name? Team? Those aren't standing out to me. There are free agents available, my point if you are going to hand out a big contract, they should be BETTER than the guys you already have. We don't need more Langston Walkers, or Derrick Dockerys. Clabo was a young, proven talent and would have been a huge upgrade. We didn't get him, but that's the type of guy we should target if we are going to make a move...not just more of the same average players we already have. Just my opinion of course.

Well it's tough to go wrong when you are stating the obvious, lol...The Bill's 0-line is weak...Surprise news of the year...

Let me ask you this though...Who should they sign? It's not like there is unlimited talent just waiting to be signed, there aren't any young proven OT's out there. This was also considered a very weak draft for OT's, so I'm fine with them not spending an early pick and hoping for the best. They went after Clabo, even though Atlanta had a huge advantage. He was the only real big name OL available this year.

I am more than fine with Dareus being that size...IF they play him at NT. Everyone loves KW, but he doesn't have the bulk to jam up the middle...Dareus does. Short arms or not, I think KW would do just fine at end. He's a beast. Plus they will surely be using pleny of 4-3, which means KW can play his more natural 4-3 penetrating DT position.

I don't think you need to be an "expert"(yeah right) to know the Bill's have a weak OL. Some Bills fans and local writers "rave" about Bell, but he his only good in Buffalo Bills standards. I doubt he starts for another team, at least a winning one. I am not smashing Bell, he holds his own and was a good pick up as a late round draft pick. He just doesn't open up running holes, and can't match up against top level pass rushers. To have a solid offense, requires this position to be ABOVE AVERAGE. Having said that, pouring money into random free agents (like Dockery, or Walker)doesn't magically fix the problem. Neither would a washed up, penalty machine like Flozell. They need to fix this through the draft, or by spending money on real talent (they tried with Clabo). I like Wood at center, but the rest of the OL hasn't shown much.

I am one of those fans who firmly believes Ralph is cheap...Come on the evidence is plentiful. Having said that, I have no problem with the way the Bills have gone about this off season. As a matter of fact, I can't think of many things they could have done better so far. Other than the moves the Bills made below, which were serious positions of needs there really aren't any free agents that could help us. Why break the bank on another Dockery? Save that cap space for a special player, or when we actually have a chance to contend... Resigned Florence (their best CB by far the last 2 years), to a reasonable deal. Got rid of POZ, some may like him, but he is overrated and doesn't fit this defense. 6 years 42 mil? Good luck (LA?)Jags, lol. Signed Barnett. No superstar, but bigger and better than Pussluzny...to top it off we got him on the cheap (of course) 3 years 12 mil They went after Clabo (best available OL), but there as long as Atlanta was interested there was never a chance he would leave. We signed Thigpen, had an amazing 08 season WITH CHAN GAILEY on a horrible KC team (21 TD's in 11 starts) only 1 start since. As a backup. All other available QB's were very expensive and very overrated.

Whitner first and foremost in my mind, mistake prone, big play prone, VASTLY overrated, cocky, and money hungry. He isn't even the best player at his position on the team...bye bye...He is surely gone anyway. For the second, any of the mediocre LB's they tried starting last year..High on my list, Torbor, Ayodele. I have no real love for POZ in the 3-4 either. The only reason I say keep Kesley, is that despite his troubles in the 3-4, we have no one else that is effective in 4-3 fronts. He was very effective in those situations last year. He is not a LB and should not be asked to play as one. He isn't going anywhere anyway, recently signed to heavily incentive based contract. Those calling for Moorman to be cut are showing signs of insanity IMO. Granted last year wasn't his best, but he was still better than most other punters last year, and is almost certainly better than anyone we would replace him with. We have WAY BIGGER PROBLEMS TO DEAL WITH than to worry about one of the few players on this team that actually has proven talent. Don't forget, the special teams was awful all around, with new coaching. I wouldn't call it blind hatred...I would call it an honest reaction to his play on the field. The guy is a safety, you cant have him "shoulder tackling" every time, which leads to MANY missed or broken tackles resulting in BIG PLAYS. Countless times I watched him go for the big hit and bounce off opposing players, only to have them keep on running. Yes, he is very aggressive, and will get ok stats for tackles, especially with our leaky run D, but that does not indicate talent or success. When he lands a big hit or tackle, great...but it's not worth all of the ones he doesn't make. Maybe even more importantly, the guy simply can't cover, especially TE's. That doesn't bode well going against a team like NE....I'd take Keion Capenter over him, and Coy Wire was drafted as and played LB his for almost his entire NFL career, not a great comparison.

Fred was injured, CJ was a rookie and not planned to be an every down back...Plus the ongoing thought the he was going to be traded, a lot harder to trade a 3rd stringer than a starter. It's not like the Bills were going to be competing for the playoffs last year, why not maximize value? Plus, its not like he was the worst back of all time...

Hell yes. We have the cap space x10...He was our best CB by far last year... Unfortunately I am skeptical that they will...Ralph almost always seems to let guys like this go....And yes, Ralph has the final say... Well said...

Nice, post. This guy definitely meets all of the size requirements, and I second the guy who said he would rather have a guy a little too heavy than a guy a little to lite at that position. Lets hope he can actually transition into an NFL NT and put all that weight to good use... BTW, thats Jasper in my picture at OG. That RB has to feel pretty safe...

I think the key here is that many people do not consider Evans, POZ, or Whitner to be "truly good", especially considering their draft status and resigning costs (Evans is signed). With POZ you could make the case that while he is less than spectacular, we don't really have much to replace him with depth wise. Whitner is over-rated and a big play allowing machine...Plus we have plenty of depth behind him. IMO getting rid of him makes us better regardless of signing costs (He's all but gone anyway, regardless of how we feel). I still think Evans is decent though. You certainly have to take into consideration the carousel of QB's and coaches he has had to work with, changing almost every year, sometimes several times a year. You also have the problem of who would replace him, I don't really see any viable candidates quite yet. So I'm with you on this one. Case in point, T.O. came to the Bills and was awful. But when he went to an established offense he was lights out...

I guess I don't understand why anyone thinks the Bills are "rich" or "loaded" at wide receiver. We have a few prospects, and a few mediocre receivers. I still think Evans is a good WR, and probably the best on our team. SJ had a great year last year, but I am not ready to proclaim him a great WR quite yet. I'd like to see that success continue into next year to know he wasn't a 1 year wonder (Peerless price). Behind them who do we have? Parrish? Made for Gailey's offense, but can never stay healthy (understandably, he is built like a 12 year old girl). Nelson? I have to admit, I like this guy. Best hands on the team. Tall. Runs great routes. He is a little slow though, so I don't know if he can push to be a starter. Easley? Many are already crowning him a "great" receiver. There is only one problem, he has never played WR in the NFL. He was a 4th round prospect that is coming off of a serious injury. He definitely COULD be good, but I will wait to see him on an NFL field before I make that judgment. After all, our 2nd round pick from a few years ago was supposed to be great too...Right now I would compare him to Sam Aiken, another 4th round pick with similar measurables... Donald Jones? He filled in pretty well for injured players, and looked OK on special teams. He is athletic, but inconsistent in most aspects of his game. Questionable hands, iffy routes. Decent depth player. Roosevelt? I know people like to root for the hometown guy, but he was on the PS for a reason. I'm not sure he even makes the team. I'd rather see a guy like Huggins make the team, tall, fast, but raw prospect. I'm not bashing our WR's, I am saying right now we have more "hopeful prospects" than anything else. Only Evans and SJ have proven that they can produce and stay healthy for a full season. I don't see us getting rid of evans, our only experienced starting WR on the team. Having said all that I wouldn't be opposed to it if we could get a decent return (2nd). We won't be contending this year, so it doesn't hurt to get younger...I just don't see it happening.

Yeah, I may like Scott as a stop gap SS...but if we are using him at LB, well we saw what happens to that team... Edit: Just curious as to where you found out exactly who started what position in how many games ? I only found more general starting info, and was going off of that and memory. You seem to have a knack for finding exact information, even for obscure topics.

I certainly don't expect you to value my "speculation" over anyone else. You seemed to be knocking my perspective on Whitner because I was speculating, then just provided more speculation to prove your point. I am just saying, virtually anything we say here regarding this is speculation. It will be interesting to see it play out, if the lockout ever ends. Also, Scott started every game he was healthy for in 2009 (9 GS, a few of those were at LB) only being replaced due to injury. Whitner only started 8. I respect your opinion to consider the drafting of Searcy an equal indictment on Scott. But Scott is almost certain to be on the Bills roster this year, and is very likely the starter (more speculation). I personally take the drafting of a SS like Searcy, and another possible Safety in Williams, as insurance/depth for the likely hood that Whitner won't be back, and that the Bills will be in need of depth. I don't think Scott is "great" or our SS of the future, but I think he is a more balanced and consistent player than Whitner. I don't think Whitner should get a 4M a year contract, let alone 5M, or 7M lol.

Wow, I thought this was going to be one of those threads that people glance at and move on. Kind of surprised to see heated discussions and opinionated essays...Good reading...

Equal amount of speculation in the article you referred to. I also didn't attach a dollar amount, I said low ball...which means lower than the anticipated actual value. I don't expect the Bills to out right cold shoulder their first round pick from a few years ago, but to me its clear they aren't too high on him either, hence the benching a few years ago, the 2nd and 4th round picks this year, and no sincere desire expressed to keep him other than presented by speculative reporting... Either way this is ALL speculation unless Nix says exactly what he plans to do...which he won't. As far as I can tell he is doing the right thing IMO, which means moving on without Whitner...

Actually the average American is a VERY integral part of this product...considering we account for almost all of the revenue. Why is it "absurd" to mention that some guys make several million dollars in a few months? Just because you think so? Evidence that someone is losing money has nothing to do with it, this is a negotiation. The OWNERS are saying they will only offer so much, the players are saying they will only accept so much...While evidence would help, it is completely unnecessary. Exactly, many people in the country may not care about this...But Bills fans should be siding with owners if you want the Bills to remain in Buffalo... Not that we can have any effect on it...

I am not saying Scott is a superstar safety, I am saying he can give is more consistent play than Whitner did. He has shown this when he's played. As far as the 4th round pick, when you lose a safety (which the Bills seem to be ready to do with Whitner) then you have to pick another on up as depth or an eventually starting prospect...I can't read anything into it more than .that... Yeah, they offered him a low ball contract which they knew had no chance of being accepted, as an insurance policy in the unlikely case that the new CBA keeps him a RFA. Since they offered no negotiations after that I would say it signals very little interest...

Remember when the Bills signed Kelsey to MUCH bigger contract than necessary? That's what I'm afraid of here. If we can get him cheap, why not...But I think he will be courted by a few 4-3 teams with looser pockets than us and better surrounding players, driving up his price. Sounds great, but I highly doubt that will happen...26 year old players don't usually have much of an interest in signing 1 year deals, when they could get hurt and cost them future contracts. At this point in their career they are looking for the big, long term pay day (which I don't think he's worth, but a 4-3 team might). There will definitely be teams out there that will want him as a role player, driving up his price. I don't think the Bills need to commit to a "role" player, with the state of this team right now. Again, if we can get him cheap there is no risk there, so why not...I just don't think he will come cheap (meaning he will cost more than he's really worth).

Kurt Warner is dead on. The players got beyond a fair deal last time around, with many owners saying they reluctantly agreed to the last CBA, in order to avoid a work stoppage (Ralph Wilson was against the deal). The bottom line is the players don't have much leverage, and have even less to complain about...Even the lowest paid players get salaries most Americans can't even dream of, while working half a year. Like it or not, the owners are the OWNERS. The multi-million dollar salaries players receive are not "slave labor" as some confused players have said. To continue refusing their employers offers will hurt the players FAR more than it will hurt the owners. With relatively short careers, these players will lose more in game checks lost then they could hope to recover in bigger (or the same size) future contracts.

For all the hate against Cam Newton, I am surprised to see any love for Pryor. Forget about the stats....Pryor cannot throw NFL passes. Sure he can run around in set plays in college and hit underneath guys, and the occasional wide open receiver...all on a team that is perennially loaded with talent. He does not have or show any football smarts, I just don't see his game translating to the NFL...For the comparisons to Troy Smith, Troy looked WAY better to me in college. He simply had a better overall game. Of course like others mentioned I also have no interest in an overly cocky, selfish player..

I wonder these questions myself, but it's pretty clear that the answers are still a way off. KW is such a strong player, possibly our best, but I don't know he is playing at the best position for him. Troup still has to show a lot more before he can be considered a starting NT, so I think the status quo has to remain for now. At least KW will have Dareus next to him now, that can only help the situation.

Exactly

Question away...Even though you don't offer any reasoning behind your "questioning". So are you saying you didn't watch Whitner miss tackle after tackle? Get beat badly on almost every throw to a TE? Have you watched the two? Scott actually took the starting job away from Whitner in 2009 (Thank you Fewell), Scott had 16 starts between 2008-2009 even at times when Donte was healthy (Ok, a couple of those were at LB)...There was good reason for that. As others have pointed out Nix doesn't seem to have any interest in bringing him back, so I am guessing he doesn't feel too much differently...