zonabb

You know what the difference is? Kelly is in the HOF. Thurman will be. Bruce will be. Talley was a gamer and Pro Bowler Bennett ... Pro Bowler Moulds ... Pro Bowler I'm not saying that makes it right from them to do what they supposedly did, however, McGahee's act and attitude have worn thin. The guy touted himself as the best in the league and he's not even a top 15 back. He talks the talk but can't walk the walk, those guys can and did. People are always willing to overlook someone's missteps when they're excelling in some other part of their life or field, but when you're an ignorant (I think his wonderlic was in the low teens), barely literate, under-achieving, selfish a-hole, you don't get the benefit of the doubt. That's how life unfortunately works.

What kills me is as of now (10:17 a.m.) ESPN.com doesn't have a single mention on its website. They are so economically involved in making Mike Vick a superstar that they're refusing to touch it. I'm sure their contract with ESPN and the money they make wouldn't preclude them from reporting a story such as this, would it? CNNSI ran it at 1:46 a.m. from an AP story. CBS Sportsline is running it. Basically, every single sports outlet is, aside from ESPN. Slowly, the NFL is losing it's grip with reality and ESPN is enabling them to do so.

Win. Simple as that. The Sabres are a perfect example. If the NFL and the Bills continue with their “entitlement” mentality, they get what they deserve. They’re not entitled to sellout games and we’re not required to buy tickets. After, what is it 7 or 8 seasons, without making the playoffs, what more can you expect? Marketing? They do a great job. Every year they build up false hope to people through commercials and the draft and free agency and people get excited and buy tickets. Then they suck and people get annoyed. I’m surprised it took this long for people to wake up. One thing I am so sick of is this “small market” label. I’ve posted it before so I won’t go to far into it but that number comes from the way the Census delineates it’s boundaries for what it calls the MSA-Metropolitan Statistical Area, basically the metro area. Our MSA is just Erie and Niagara Counties, about 1.2 million people. Atlanta’s is 28 counties covering roughly the same area as Erie, Niagara, Monroe, Genesee, Orleans, Cattaraugus, Chatauqua, Ontario and Wayne counties. Do that math and that adds at least a million more people. Throw in Niagara Falls and Hamilton, Ont. and that’s another million. Start looking at the true geographically area of the market and we’re not small. Then take a look at this…. The Sabres are going to sell out 41 games this year at 18,000 people per game or 738,000 tickets. The Ralph for a season holds roughly 600,000 tickets. If we can sell all those Sabres tickets when they win, we can sell the Ralph out when they win. I know economics and not having the businesses as a NYC or LA hurts the amount they can get for tickets, but those are the realities of a lot of places. I’m just so bleeping sick of the league, the national media and everyone else who wants to pile for blaming the fans and the region. When does the team and management take some responsibility and accountability for not giving people a reason to come to games? It’s not enough that it’s our identity to some extent and that the game atmosphere is fun, winning matters. Win and the house fills. Continue to suck and it doesn’t. And if that means leaving, fine, go lose somewhere else and cheat some other people out of their money.

I can't remember who I heard discussing Fletcher, maybe Joe D, but he said that Fletcher is great sideline to sideline and can run down RBs when they're outside the tackles. The main problem with Fletcher is in the run game. He's basically unable to shed blocks due to his size and when a OL gets out on him, he gets run down and becomes ineffective. And he's good in pass coverage but at his position, he needs to be better against the run.

Couldn't agree more. I never liked the guy. He's an average RB who lacks what I'd consider the most important qualities in a player... a brain and desire to be the best. For anyone out there who thinks the guy runs hard every play (kinda like that RB in Tennessee), you're a McGahee homer. He doesn't, never has and that's why he's mediocre and will always be. Proof? What RB with ojne year left inn free agency approaches the team about extending a contract? One who knows his value isn't going to get higher. I wish Clements would take him with him. Kill two over-hyped, under-performing "me" guys in one fell swoop.

Yeah, it's Xmas eve and people have families. We're not obligated to spend our time and money on the Bills. The Bills aren't ENTITLED to fans until the fans are ENTITLED to wins. Enough already. The bottomline is, after 7 or 8 seasons without the playoffs, don't blame the fans. We get a mulligan for not going because they just aren't good.

It's not the playing calling then, it's the execution. Everyone is quick to let the players off the hook when they fail on the first 3 downs and then chastise the coach on the fourth down. They failed to execute, end of story. You can't sit and like the play calling for 3+ quarters when they've put 29 points on the board and then complain about the 4th down call when they failed to excure on the first 3 downs. That's the players.

You people are ill, really. I bet the stats exists that show that your odds of kicking a 45 field goal into a 20 MPH wind are worse than completing a 4th and 5. It was an educated gamble and it didn't work. Get real, this team has major flaws and even if they made it (I bet they wouldn;t have even with the win today and next week, write it down) they'd get killed. It was a learning experience. That's how progress and growth works. And for those who think Vince Young is the next Joe Montana.... give the league a while, they'll catch up to him like thet did with Vick.

Typical moron thing to say from someone on the government dole. Go into the real world, oh wait, they need people with good grammer and proper spelling. I don't mind paying you to risk your life so I can make triple what you do. Thanks.

It's "given" up you retard. Sucks that they don't teach you English while your swabbing the deck. Tard.

And you'd be a moron who obviously hates hockey and has no clue. Stick to football, it's easier for simpletons like you to understand.

Dope can't get his mind around population and demographics, probably because it's requires analysis, not reading back stats that he read somewhere. Anyway, the problem is, the definition of a Metropolitan Statistical Area. That si essentially the base number the NFL and media use to detmerine the "size" (economic, geographic, population) of a team market. The definition and boundary of MSA is based on commuting data from the census and a core community in excess of 50,000 people. That's obviously Buffalo. But they meaure the connectivity (economic and social) of the core to the outlaying areas by commuting trips. So, the Buffalo MSA is just Erie and Niagara Counties. The Rochester MSA is Orleans, Ontario, Monroe, Livingston and Wayne. If you know the counties, that leaves Genesee County not even included, yet it borders Erie and Monroe. So they take the population and use it for everything to measure Buffalo. Unfortately, as one guy tried to explain, it's really a poor measurement because if you take the the Rochester MSA and Buffalo MSA, plus Genesee, Wyoming, Cattaraugus and Chautaqua county into account, the population is close to 3 million people with a total land area of about 8900 square miles. Now, if you take Atlanta for example (because that was the first MSA I came across when looking), it consists of 28 counties and an area of about 8300 square miles. So is it fair to compare Buffalo only as two counties when you use 28 for Atlanta. Maybe, but I'd say it's unfair when you use 8300 square miles around Atlanta and only about 1200 for Erie-Niagara. I took demographics in grad school and one thing the prof always said, and that the Buffalo Niagara Partnership has advocated in the passed was to make our MSA bigger geographically. If nothing more, it moves the Buffalo MSA higher on the population list and might attract business due to the population numbers. If you add in the Niagara and Hamilton cnesus districts in Ontario, that's almost a million more people. The bottom line is, there are plenty of people and businesses within no more than 1.5 hours of the stadium. Winning solves everything. Yes, I look into this sometime back!

Wow, a lot of people with no clue about statistical significance arguing and making no sense. First off, being last in the percent of seats filled is not a good sign. In fact, it's more signifcant than the total number of fans attending and average per game. I assume you used the city of Buffalo's population estimate of about 270,000 to attempt to strengthen your point. The problem is, that number is irrelevant. The NFL is a world wide corporation and markets itself as such and Erie-Niagara counts about 1.2 million in population, not couting the Southern Tier counties, greater Rochester or Southern Ontario, which when you count all that, would actually make Buffalo-Niagara one of the top 10 markets in the country. We draw from Canada and Rochester and the Bills market to Canada and Rochester as well. So the population argument is a joke. In fact, the population of the so-called Golden Horseshoe is a positive for this team. Per capita and so-called disposable income really have no correlation to ticket sales, especially since our cost of living is among the most affordable and the Bills tickets are the lowest or one of the lowest in the league. As stated above, population size dictates that even if per capita and disposable income were an issue, there are enough people within 90 miles of the stadium to overcome that issue. Weather is what it is. But I highly doubt you can say that it's hurting this team with any sort of certainty. All that being said, this season is an anomaly I think. More games than ever after Thanksgiving (holiday season) coupled with a bad team with a losing record will result in attendance issues. Throw in a game on Xmas eve and out numbers will be below average. Just like I said with the Sabres.... put a competitive team on the ice and you'll sell out. Throw everything else out the window. You win, it fills.

We don't need an excuse. Don't blame the fans for not supporting this team when they suck and haven't been to the playoffs in how many years? 6? 7? 8? Whatever it is. People need to get over the "we're obligated to support this team" mentality. Just like when the Sabres sucked, people, myself included, didn't buy tickets. If we're "obligated", to buy tickets they're obligated to put something better on the field for my entertainment value. People aren't blowing $50 during the holidays to waste their time with this team. That might be harsh or cold or whatever. But that the reality. And anyway, we've sold how like 26 of the last 27 home games while compiling a pathetic LOSING record. So one non-sell out isn't going to send this team to southern Cali. Get over the fear-mongering. And for all the out-of-towners and former WNYers, you can check your opinions on this matter at the door. I used to care if this team stayed, but in the last couple years, I've changed my tune. The NFL is a league full of ignorant, unintelligent, ingrates and a-holes. Everyone expects WNY to rally for this team of guys who live here for 5 months a year and have no connection to the community they sap millions from. Sure, there are a few guys who play a role in the community but I see more of them making money doing commercials than (check your credibility at the door and whore yourself for Veins, Veins, Veins...) than giving back to the community. Take, take, take..... I'm not a grinch, I'm just a realist who isn't blindly supportive of a bunch of millionaires who could care less because they're getting paid no matter what. I used to be a sports addict but in the last 10 years, it's hard to root for the NFL anymore.

Well, I'm always ragging on Poop and the Bullfrog. The problem with Poop is, he's assumes he smarter than most guys that call in and he likes to make those people feel small and inconsequential. to better his own mental state. But the only thing small and inconsequential when it comes right down to it working post game on a SUNDAY in the FOURTY-NINTH (last I checked) largest media market in the country where you're the only show/station in town. Hardly make people turn in because they actually respect the host or his personality ir his insight. You turn in if your a fan because you have no other option. And if you're like me, I tuned in for less than a minute. Some guy called in, made a point about the defense, Igor and Tiny belittled him and I turned it off. They might be the only game in town, but when you lose signifcant listeners because your hosts are a) the most pompous, linguistically challenged windbag and b) the biggest homer ever in local journalism, you've got market share problem. I don't want my sports radio hosts making suggestions for wine and cheese. If I want wine and cheese help, I'll got to Premier. But that's Poop's sad attempt to say "Hey, I'm so sophisticated and smart." No, actually he's a chicken-sh--, little waterboy who played Statomatic because he couldn't hack it between the lines with his peers. And now, he's using the radio station as his pulpit to exact revenge on jocks he so badly wanted to be but never could. Yeah, so what I'm saying is, they suck. When they take shots at professional athletes for not being good enough.... just remember, these are two local hacks on a small channel in Buffalo, NY. They haven't risen to a top 20 or even top 40 market. Oh the irony..........

This team has some major flaws, without a doubt. But what really kills me are the people on this board who consistently point to JP as the reason this team is horrible offensively. I am not an apologist for this guy. He makes mistakes, like the rest of the offense. But people here lack the ability to analyze the entire offense because they can only get their tiny minds around stats and somehow always use them to make a point about JP. I can make JP look good with numbers if I do what every one around here does… selectively picking the stats that help make my point. For instance…JP has a better QB rating (18th overall) coming into this game than Roethlisberger, Vick, and Leinart. He has a better completion percentage (14th in the league) than E. Manning (actually beats by thousandths of a percent), Carson Palmer, Jake Delhomme, Tom Brady, Brett Favre, Donovan McNabb…. So you look at that stat and you say “Wow, not bad.” And people use that garbage to try to prove a point. And then someone retorts and says “well, he’s 25th in touchdown percentage and tied for 22nd in TDs.” And then the next guy replies “Yeah but his INT percentage is still better than Brady, Hasselback and Grossman.” Stats are what they are, a means for the people who have no other means to support their opinions because they lack a functioning brain capable of understanding how successful organizations, in this case an offense, operate. My point is, a QB can’t be deemed good or bad only on stats. If you want to use stats to make a point, get the stats for all the offense and try to draw a more complete and comprehensive picture of the offense as a whole that allows people to make a judgment based on a wide group of variables. An offense is supposed to be a cohesive unit, a machine. And like any machine, it can’t be deemed efficient and operational based on the analysis and operation of one part. The offenses problems are many. The line continues to be its worst unit, for the last who knows how many years. That is a result of poor scouting, poor drafting and poor free agent acquisitions. The dumb penalties that people in football like to call “discipline” in my opinion are intelligence issues. Being the husband of a special ed teacher, trust me, some people will never learn. They’re called learning disabled (see University of Miami throughout the league as a good example). Penalties that drive me nuts such as off sides, illegal blocks in the back and encroachment are the result of lack of intelligence. Willis McGahee is average, will always be average and his overinflated ego gets in the way of his ability to get better because he thinks he is the best already (He’s a U prodict that I seem to recall had about a 12 on his Wonderlic). The line is partly to blame, but he doesn’t run hard like we saw Thomas do today. He lacks the ability to get outside (lateral quickness). You want stats, we’re 22nd in rushing yards per game. Is that JPs fault too? It’s a combination of poor blocking and average running. If we’re running JP out of town, then take WM with you. Afterall, conventional wisdom says you have to have a good running game to be successful in this league so it’s all WM’s fault right just like it’s JPs fault alone for the passing game troubles. And that’s where the hypocrisy come out on this board, the same people who says it’s all JP’s fault carry the flag for Willis and blame the line for his woes. How can that be? Play calling from GW to MM to DJ has been a joke. Today they’re running on every 3rd and long and they throw on a 3rd and 1? What are you? Conservative? A running first team? What? The lack of wanting to throw on third and long is an indictment of the line, not a lack of confidence in JP or a belief in the running game. It says “Hey, we can’t get the guy enough time to throw, so let’s just run it and hope for the best.” The conservatives lost Tuesday, time to move on and get some balls. And by the way… we do have TEs right? They are on our roster, right? I think the play calling is really killing this team. No creativity, no quick slants for the WR, no use of the TE to open things up. Horrible. They’re handcuffing Losman by forcing him to stand in there. Let him scramble a little, have more roll outs and bootlegs. Keep the LBs honest. I’m not sure on the WRs. I think Evans can be a #1 but we don’t really have a #2 to take the heat off. And the TE position continues to be an afterthought because they’re mainly used to help a porous OL. And as for JP, he has some flaws but flaws aren’t easy corrected when you can’t get comfortable. You can’t sit back in a non-existent pocket, make your reads and find your WR. You can’t complete plays when you get into your 5th or 7th step and can’t plant because you’re OL is being blown up. Sit back and thing about what you’d do if you were the QB on a pass play and had the TEs are blocking for extra protection; Evans is your most reliable and your time is limited. You probably think that your best chance for success given you time is to lock on Evans and force a pass. I’m not making an excuse, I’m saying that I don’t think he locks in because he doesn’t know how to run progressions, I think he locks out of fear of not having time and the need to make a play. When the guy has time and makes his reads, he’s been decent. But this isn’t a great position to learn in with this OL. The best comparison I can think of is Roethlisberger. Guy comes in with a great OL and is asked to manage a team. He gets time, has a good running game and gets confidence and becomes successful. And Denver, a team with a great OL for the last decade or more that cranks out 1000-yard rushers out of guys like Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson. Until the OL is addressed, I don’t care who the QB is, this team will suck. Sure, a veteran QB might make some more plays because they have more experience, but is this s Super Bowl OL or even playoff OL? No way in hell. I could careless if JP stays or goes. This isn’t an OL they’re gonna win with, ever. Bring in Peyton Manning and you still won’t win. But people on this board would blame him anyway because they’re clueless. It ALL starts with an OL. I have always felt that way and always will. Super Bowl teams all have them!

1. Defense. They put the team in the whole right out of the gate and again provided no help with turnovers. 2. JP. He's not the answer. He's peaked in my opinion. He can dink and dunk but he locks in too much and holds onto the ball too long. Those problems, IMO, are the hardest to correct (see Bledsoe). 3. Offensive Line and Coordinator. 10 years running with a CFL line. And a scheme that never utilizes the TE either as an outlet or as a target in routes. Sorry but Royal isn't a weapon and teams know it.

Why does it seem the same fundamental problems have stayed with this team for the last 5+ years. The issues are laughable at this juncture. Let's not throw the current regime under the bus after 7 games. But we can see some obvious problems due to TD. And there are some major problems I see coaching wise with this team, namely on offense, the msot glaring is the OL, not how it's coached, but how the offense continues, stubbornly, to not move JP around and let him roll our more. But aside from that, what really drives me nuts, and MM and GW are just as guilty is a complete lack of the TE in these offenses. A QB that's learning on the job behind a joke of an OL needs TEs that he can dump down to and use in patterns. We're not seeing it. And NE is a perfect example, they us the TE as a weapon, not a last resort. So offensively, they continue, year after year after year to trot out the worst group of OL we possible can. Look at the second rate OL we get in FA and the "projects' they try to draft. Laughable. Defensively, I'm not sold on this scheme either, based on speed. Our "quick" DL get man-handled more often than not. That leaves the DBs on their own, which brings me to Clements and McGee. These guys are brutal. McGee looked like a peewee played on the Jackson TD today. And when the defense does play well, they continue to not get turnovers. You can't win without them. Plain and simple. Lastly, I've been a wait-and-see fan with JP, but I've seen all I need to. He's your typical physically gifted QB with no pocket sense and the inability to show he can learn. He doesn't get the ball out fast enough, locks onto receivers, and has shown an overall lack of growth. What separates the great QBs from the rest isn't the so-called "it." It's brains. I've said it on this board before and I'll say it again, I'll take a guy with good skills and brains over a guy with great skills whose a moron. There's a website out there that lists Wonderlic scores. Find it, it proves brains over skills once and for all. I'm a Bills fan but I won't let that deter me from saying what needs to be said, JP isn't the guy.

Statistics for a single event where the outcome has been determined might be for “losers” but statistics, for those who can actually analyze them, are in fact a good determining factor in the outcome of future games. What that means for you math wizards is that taken over the course of a season, yesterday’s performances by JP and Willis will lose you more games than it wins. If someone shows you those stats without the final score, the majority say the Bills lost.

Starting? Wow. This guy has been a mental midget since day 1. The guy reportedly scored a 12 on the wonderlic. For those who say "what does a 12 mean oe equate to?" A 20 is widely consided to be equivelant to an IQ of 100, which is the average IQ score. 12 is pretty low territory that I'd rather not enter into without offending anyone!!! Physically gifted with the brian power of a 6th grader. I've said it on this board before, brains is discounted too much in this game because it's a physical game. But brains in a situation such as the one McGahee was in today obvious are important.

Completely wrong call given that this is a rebuilding team needing confidence. You take what is given to you on the ROAD. So for those of you who state it puts us up by 17, great, but we lost 19-17 and that field goal makes it 20-7. I like my chances better with that. The bottomline is, we don't have that confidence and sometimes conservative decisions can give your team as much confidence as bold ones. In this case, Jauron failed his team, plain and simple. The Patriots for for 4th and 1 every time because they'll make it or overcome not making it, the Bills aren't there yet. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. You get a good game from your QB (mistake free on the road) and a good effort from your defense (although the line is worrisome) and coaching, the people suppposed to put players in the position to win, cost you the game. This team can't overcome bad decisions from the coaches.

Anyone in a position of leadership knows that when you have made good progress and exceeded expectations, you need to protect your team, be it in the corporate world or the sports world. So in my field, when we're exceeding expectations on a project (ie, under budget), you don't through you team under the bus by making stupid managerial decisions. You take the low lying fruit and move on. So going for a 4th down deep in Patriots territory up 10 was ridiculous. The Pats drove the length of the field and ended the game right there. Time was the only thing left to watch pass. Jauron costs his team a huge chance to start this season off with a win and gain major confidence. When you're the underdog with a young team, you can't to make stupid decisions. BTW, am I the only on seeing penalties on the Pats lines? Early on Tripplett was tackled on a play with no call? 0-1 and on to Miami.

Well, if you tuned in late, maybe they went in alphabetical order?!!!

As someone who enter sports reporting as a fresh 23 year old college grad and left by 25 because I realized it was neither journalism or had an integrity, I couldn't agree more. Sure, it's an interesting story and sad at the same time, but the real story is, this guy walked away from millions and life as a pro football player, a position millions envy, to be a soldier for this country and to fight for what he believed in. The Sons of Liberty would be proud. How he died is irrelevant at this point. The message he sent to us is what's important. He's a hero. A refreshingly real person who played a game with a more ignorant college dropouts than real men. As the days pass, I become more and more disconnected with sports. I stilltune in, check it out, watch these boards but imagine how much would change for someone like me who walked away from a career path as a sports reporter. I realized it's irrelevant and meaningless in our lives. It's a 3 hour getaway, not something to spend you life and career on and become some angry, surly, demeaning blowhard like Jerry Sullivan or Mike Schopp. Someone tell those two that it's a game and it makes their jobs not that big of a deal, maybe they'll lighten up a bit.

Anywhere outside of NY that provides even a semblance of a better life because this place will eat you alive with poor government leadership, poor government structure and a complete lack of willingness by our elected leaders to change things. And let's not forget the disgusting public unions who are leading this area into a a black hole by their refusal to give up their perks, negotiate copntracts fairly of give even the most minor concessions. What I want people who read this and live in Buffalo and WNY to realize is that A) politicians always kneel to their unions bosses who get them elected and the businesses that line their pockets and that B) things aren't changing here because of an inability to overcome state laws that make unions unbreakable because the reality is that personnel expenses are one of, if not the largest governmental expense and the one they have the least control over. Deal with reality. Either start voting for progrssive leaders willing to even tackle the tough issues and stand against the opposition or be like the smart young people and vote with your feet. If you look at what you like about Buffalo and WNY, you can find it somewhere else with cheaper taxes, a better government, more opportunities, and maybe even better weather. This place is done for. It's not me being cynical, it's me as well-heeled, masters educated local professional who deals with the government here and sees the beast from the inside. And I actually read the paper and vote against people who need to be out of office but somehow manage to stay in. So much for the so-called voter revolution.