zonabb

Thank you! I went through this on another thread and if there is on thing Graham missed, it was this angle. $6 mil goes a hell of a lot futher in Texas or Florida than in Buffalo. And don't start with the housing discussion because it's false. They can buy a millionaire mansion here and if they're lucky resell if for that they bought it for (McGee lost about $100,000 on his house when he sold it). They can buy the same house in Miami or Dallas for more but actually gain equity on it and pay way less taxes on it so it's more of an asset than it is here, where a millon dollar house owned for 5 years is likley to cost close to $100,000+ in taxes but not gain $100,000 in equity. Face it, WNY is not attractive. Take your own emotional attachment out of the discussion and approach it logically. With the state of NFL today (greedy owners, monster stadium debt, rich-only game attendees), the Buffalo Bills are the Kansas City Royals of the NFL.

BTW, Florida has no income tax, so that's a major advantage the have. A $6M/tr deal in both places results in more money in a player's pocket in Florida. If I were a non-native WNY and was picking based on what I saw, I'd take the Dolphins over the Bills if the contracts were the same because it puts more money in my pocket and right now puts me on a better team. All the other factors, weather, big city, etc. are merely icing on the cake. There is thin commonly myopic homerism on this site that everyone thinks that because they live here or buy tickets or love WNY, that any player not having the same warm and fuzzy somehow is greedy or doesn't get it. We're a third tier city with major economic and population decline. The team is consistently medicore and outwardly seems non-commited to anything but lining RWS pocket with profit and there are question about where the team might be in the very near future. What's to like if you're a free agent?

I think you guys are missing the point. If this is "HORRIBLE" and took 30 minutes, how much effort did the Bills put into theirs! This thread did exactly what it should have: 1. Shown how long 'ass' takes to make and that the Bills new logo is in fact "ass" 2. That if people supposedly "in the business" think this effort sucks, and it's essentially the same effort the Bills put forth, hence the Bills effort sucks.

Holy F is GripnRip an idiot. So basically, what you're saying is that we shouldn't have laws and rules? And that you're such a homer that what he did is something you're OK with? And the racial blast, like somehow the concealed weapon law is only used against blacks is retarded, frankly. There is one thing I will never ever do and that's stand being a childish, multi-millionaire athelete who thinks the rules don't apply to him. The guy knows the rules, or if he doesn't, he's a moron. I'll say this. I'm a die-hard Bills fan, and was a season ticket holder the last couple seasons. But I hope he gets what he has coming to him, I really do. The hit and run was bad enough and everyone thought the guy made a single bad mistake. But this is now a trend of stupid behavior from an obviously ignorant person.

Way to go VJ91, slam a guy with some vision and a willingness to through an idea out there and castigate him as sell-serving and ego driven. Maybe of more of the people who are the leaders in WNY had some vision and willingness to bring ideas to the table on a whole host of fronts, this region and state wouldn't be dead. What he as done is what public discourse is all about, bring anj idea to the table and discuss its merits and allow for a discussion of the pros and cons of it and often, other ideas and options come up. You're regressive mentality is what keeps WNY in the tail spin its in.

How is "worst" measured, can Fasano tell us that? Doubt it. But by many socio-economic measurements, he's pretty close, Buffalo is probably in the bottom five. Unemployment, population loss, job growth. These all point against Buffalo. As does taxes, governance, utility costs (ironically Buffalo has among the highest water and electricity rates in the country, higher thanh desert cities like Vegas and Phoenix despite being located on the largest reserve of fresh water in the world and situated next to a major hydro-electroic plan). The anecdotal evidence (great neighbors, geography etc) aside, Buffalo (and I mean the region not just the City of) is really nothing to be swelled with pride about.

I have to agree with The Real, you're an idiot. Of all the ignorant things I've read on this board over the years, the admission that you want to drop an n-bomb on Adam Jones takes the cake. Move out of your lily white suburbs (mom's basement too) and get some culture and realize the impact of that word you scumbag.

Sure it can. As soon as state leaders in what has been determined the most dysfunctional state legislature in America start putting the people ahead of the campaign contributors and special interests. So I guess the answer is really no. The state needs major structural overhauls, starting with developing a way to create more functional, effective and cost-efficient regional governments like they have in the south where every is moving too. Example: in South Carolina the counties run the schools, they don't have 40 different districts wastefully managing themselves with 40 superintendents. They have county sheriffs as well, not 4-cop outposts like the Village of Akron. What WNY and NYS does with it's city, town and village government strucuture is downright retarded and embarassing. We operate in a structure based on 1700s disconnect agrarian society. We need major overhaul of laws such as the Taylor, Wicks, and Triborough, which are exceedingly costly to taxpayers. The Taylor is the union law that basically ensures that we as average public sector taxpayers pay the highest salaries to puboic employees in the country, including the inability to remove such things as hair transplants and breast implant surgeyr form the Buffalo Teachers Contract without negotiation. Does your employer negotiate your health care benefits or does he/she just tell you what you're getting? Proof that the union way of life is long gone? Ask Chevy and Delphi how that works today. So yeah, once those are fixed we're all set.

My bad, didn't know this was a business. Thanks for the update. Unfortunately, in your expert analysis and analogy (can you feel the sarcasm, I sure hope so) you failed to consider the fact that this county and state built Ralph a stadium, continually subsidizes that stadium to ensure his $20-$25 mil profit per year (ie, he could pay for it himself but he'd rather steal our money); and that this isn't a car or a clothing store, it's a publically subsidized good so it doesn't fall into your typical private business enterprsise you wish it did. The emotion and pain is exascerbated (get yourself a dictionary) by RW ....fill in the black: arrogance, ignorance, condescension, senility, dishonor, greed.... His family will sell to the highest bidder and this team will leave. I'm confident of that. But that's the issue. They've turned a $25,000 invested into hundreds of millions off the backs of WNY and they'll turn their back on it to maximize the profit that WE have cretaed and ensured both at the ticket office and at county hall, which has subsidized the greed. I wish they'd pack up and leave yesterday and I'm a season ticket holder (soon to be former).

From Rotoworld: Buffalo's Jason Peters gave up more sacks than any starting left tackle in the league in 2008. His 11.5 sacks allowed came in only 13 games because he missed three with various injuries after a training camp holdout. He was even worse than fellow turnstile LTs Jeff Backus, Khalif Barnes, Kwame Harris, Max Starks, and Levi Jones. Peters has very little leverage if he still wants that raise. There were radio and media honks last week saying he's played well this year. When? Guy was a joke and if this doesn't solidfy the argument that he can go pound salt, nothing does. These numbers are not Pro Bowl numbers. Don't think for one minute the NFLPA wouldn't collude in a vote to get this guy a Pro Bowl to increase his salary, thereby increasing the salaries of all LTs. Follow the money.... And the QB matters little. A true manh-handling LT gives up few sacks no matter who the QB is. I'd like to see the penalty numbers too.

I told my season ticket rep this year that the Bills could and should jack their prices at least $15-$20 per ticket across the board. A 16th row ticket on the 40 behind the Bills bench should cost more than $70 for a season ticket holder, sorry. I sat there for the MNF game (not my seats) and they should be $100 minimum. I'd would have paid it for my 300-level seats (I'm done as long as DJ is the coach). If the Sabres can get what they do for one out of 82 games, the Bils should see they can as well. Ralph likes to think, and state as he did in a Toronto presser, that we're economically poor as a region, but this is one thing peophe can and will pay for. We don't HAVE to have the cheapest or second cheapest seats in the league, the Bills just choose that to be the case.

1. TV watches who don't spend a nickel get to be here now but I can't even after spending thousands in season ticket costs over the years, which I now will spend on something more enjoyable? 2. There is nothing stopping you from doing just that, there is no waiting list. There are plenty of seats available, so put your money where your mouth is and buy some, just to have them. And for those of us who remained here, we're really not interested in being told what to do with our season tickets from people who either don't live here or worse yet left here. 3. I like anyone reserve the right to come and go as I please!!! In fact, as an Erie County taxpayer, I've supported the Bills without consent and reserve the right as a de facto customer to always complain so long as my tax dollars go to own, maintain and operate that stadium so that miserable old retard can make his $25 mil per year.

Good work. I told them yesterday to not waste the stamps and paper with any correspondence with me regarding my fours seats. I'm done. So is my buddy and his pair next to me. Spending money to support mediocrity is the ultimate shame. RW has everyone by the nuts, he thinks, and correctly so, that people are so scared this team will leave (because the curmudgeon has ensure that outcome through his greed) that they will support it no matter what. I don't care anymore. Leave. The city and region is bigger and more important to me than the Bills. The Bills lend nothing to it other that stealing taxpayer dollars to subsidize RWs profit. Beat it losers.

I already told my season ticket rep (four seats) that I'm done, not to waste the stamps and paper trying to get me to renew. I've said it in other threads and I'll say it again here... spending even one penny on this team is not somethiing I am willing to do so long as this moron owns the team. Here's a cheap, disconnected, ignorant, condescending a-hole who has run one of the top 5 worst franchise in the last 50 years. As a former season ticket holder and unfortunately still Erie County taxpayer (de facto supporter), I'm appalled. I can't wait until RW is no longer the owner. If that means the team moves so be it. Mark my words, this team will not return to the playoffs in his lifetime. His main concern now, in the final years of his life, are maximizing the profit for his family. Don't think for one second that's not the case. He makes $20-$25 mil a year (a close friend with connections had breakfast with him a couple years ago and he said as much) and that's his first and foremost concern. Winning, the fans, the city, the players, the coaches are all secondary, maybe tertiary after his family. He's a bona fide loser of 4 Super Bowls and more losing seasons than winning, by far.

Yeah, his team is worth hundreds of millions because the senile curmdgeon continues to steal taxpayer dollars to subsidize his $20-$25 million in yearly profit. He turned a $25,000 investment into millions on tickets holders and taxpayers back while being arguably one of the top 5 worst franchises in the last 50 years. I emailed my season ticket rep today and told him to save the mailings and stamps, I'm not renewing my 4 seats and I know my friend with and his two seats next to me is done as well. I don't buy seats to support this city or region, I buy them for football. They want $60 a seat times 6 seats from us, they need to put their best foot forward in terms of coaching anmd players and they don't. They're the Kansas City Royals, Pittsburgh Pirates or Cincinnati Reds. Try to win some games as cheaply as posisble and hope to catch lightning in a bottle. We've seen how well that works. So instead of firing this passionless, milquotoast loser of a coach because he stupidly signed him to a contract extension mid-season with no playoff-caveat attached (shows you his retarded business sense), he's sticking by him. Here's rooting for the Miami Dolphins and Atlanta Falcons and their rookie coaches, who are proof positive that RW's continuity pitch is a line of sheet from a cheap bastardo only looking to save money, no win football games.

Great, we need people like you to drink the kool-aid so I can watch at home if I even feel like it. As a former season ticket holder (Sunday being my last game as one, and yes I was there) I can honestly say that this owner and this coach aren't worth my money. It's pretty much that simple. I'd rather take a couple thousand dollars and do something more meaningful and enjoyable and let someone else have my four seats. This team and this owner have sucked for exponentially more years than they've been good. They've had some of the worst coaches ever. The owner wants to maximize his profit for his family while foresaking the football team, the fans and even more disgustingly the taxpayers who have and continue to foot the bill so he can make his $20-$25 mil person season on their collective back. I no longer equate the validity of this city or this region with this football team. Buffalo as a city gets no respect nationally because it's a regressive, tax-happy city run by unions and special interests while bleeing populaiton. No football team is going to make that any different in our eyes of the nations eyes. If this football team is all we have, we're worse off tha I thought. How they can market this coach who was out-classed, out-thought and out-coached on Sundays in almost every game is beyond me. Lots of luck to them. Aside from the continual coaching problem the team faces (let's be honest, DJ isn't going to get better), it has failed miserably in drafting and free agency. The drafting has been poor. Then there is the inability of this team/coaches to develop players. Players from college to the pros can get better with coaching, the Bills seem to get worse. Have fun with your 2009 season tickets.

Read on PFT that the Minnesota and San Diego homes game this weekend are not selling well and might be blacked out. Amazing to me really. Both are pretty well-to-do communities with a lot of business and white collar jobs, especially compared to Bflo. I can't see any situation where a playoff game here would ever not be sold out immediately. Makes you wonder how a town like this could potentially lose a team with the kind of support they get (well, I know how, profit the team could reap somewhere else!).

Wow, one of the most dumbfounding statements ever on this board. If the price of the boxes is the problem, then selling them IS the problem! Maybe you meant the problem woth selling the boxes is the asking price.

If you don't believe that sends a message, you're a fool. This team and owner are driven by money and profit. If people didn't attend (or better yet, just hung out in the parking lot), they lose money in concession (and get heat from their concessionaire); money in parking revenue; souvenirs sales and most importantly would be forced to question what they need to do in the off season to market this team. That shows them that their season ticket sales might drop (they better) and their good will with the fan base has evaporated. Hit them where it hurts, right in their wallet. Afterall, the Senile Curmudgeon has shown over and over that aside micro-managing this team into last place year after year, he really likes money, as evidenced by his refusal to sell this team. If he were honest about keeping the team in Buffalo and true to the fans that have supported this fiasco, he'd sell the team. But he wants to milk every last nickel from it so his kids can have as much as possible. That's not a bad thing from a business standpoint, but as a fan, you should understand that and spend your money accordingly. If you want to pizz away your money committing your time and cash to a guy who's not coimmitted to provide you the highest return on your entertainment dollar, go for it. There is a time when people have to ask themselves: "Why am I supporting this team." Now is that time.

We'll be doing it. Six seats. Big bonfire and pigout in the private lot along Southwestern Blvd. next to I think Drive 5. Can't give the seats away so let's make a party out of it!

I second that. My four seats won't be renewed. This team has sucked 4 times as much as they've been good (check their historical record, it'll make you puke). Ralph is only commited to his wallet, despite what ANYONE thinks. People see his false allegiance to the city but ignore his fleecing of the taxpayers and his lack of commitment to winning, which means committing to getting good free agenst (paying for them); good coached (paying for them) and good talent evaluators (paying for them). He's only committed to mediocrity, or whatever the minimum he needs to do to lead everyone along. When he sells the second most season tickets on hope alone (see: marketing), what incentive does he have to make real change when WE as season ticket holders keep going? And if they move, so be it. What have they done for us? Really, honestly? Sense of pride? Nope, more like embarassment. Sense of place? Nope, this region is dead, and we have no hope in it or the Bills? Any other reasons?

Yeah, so how does next year look... let's see shall we: 6 AFC games where all three teams are currently 8-5. Home games against the Bucs and Colts Road games aginst the Panthers, Titans and Falcons Seriously, they can't have a winning season next year because this team has so many problems it's basically a major project. And save the "Check the Dolphins and Falcons" line: Atlanta has wins against Detroit, Kansas City, Green Bay, Oakland, and San Diego. 5 wins against horrible teams. Miami has wins over Buffalo (2), Denver, Seattle, Oakland, and St Louis. The only quality win was against NE. They've lost to the NYJ, Arizona, Baltimore and NE. As well as to Houston. They had a decent schedule against bad teams and improved but they're not good.

You mean in 3 years from now when we get a new one?

Ralp has always "had to" make major changes in everyone's eyes but his own. He's a stubborn, greedy, senile ingrate who has fleeced this city, county and state of millions to line his own pockets while continually trying to maximize his profits by using cut rate players and coaches that he hopes and prays will pull off a miracle. Tell me it's any different, I dare you. Tell me why Polian left, the greatest talent evaluator the team ever had. Why did Butler and Smith leave? That's where your team starts and ends but the stuttering curmudgeon wants final say and control and those guys with great track records wanted to do their job without his micor managing. He sucks. This team suck and always had. They had a few good years in the early 90s, but other than that, this is arguably one of the worst historical sports franchises. Don't let Ralph's supposed commitment to Buffalo and the emotion you have for the city over shadow the fact that this team has always sucked and that the constant through all the years is this a-hole of an owner.

That you should spend your hard earned dollars on season tickets to watch guys who refuse to earn their MILLIONS.