ThurmasThoman

They lost Talib 6 hours earlier, who cares? Even if you want to be a homer and say Talib isn't half the player Revis was and grade Talib at a B+, and say Revis is the best player in the league and grade him at an A+, is it really that dramatic of an improvement for the Patriots? That team is... the bizarre-o world version of the Buffalo Bills. Having watched about 90% of their snaps last year, I can tell you in no uncertain terms they were not a 12 win team. They should have lost to the Broncos, Saints, and Browns--those 3 wins were absolutely ridiculous and essentially gifted to them. The fact of the matter is, the Bills are closer to an 8-8 team, and the Pats are closer to a 9-7 team. Eventually, that is going to shake out. It might be this year, next year, or 2016, but eventually, these scales will even out. Replacing a better than good corner with a used to be great corner, in today's nfl, isnt going to do much for them.

More importantly (and how has this not been brought up yet?) The Bills ap said there were three suitors for Byrd: Miami Cleveland and St. Louis Now with Miami having signed Delmas, and the Browns (apparently) targeting Whitner, that leaves the Buffalo Bills and St. Louis Rams as the only suitors for Byrd?

I'm not going to read 76 pages of the "Byrd Thread" to see if this has been brought up, but I want to throw this one out there. People are up in arms over the fact the the Bills did not tag Byrd, which I find amusing... if you had Whaley in front of you, and you were to say to him "Hey man, why not franchise Byrd and at least get something of value in return?" there are Bills fans with enough hubris to honestly think his response would be something along the lines of "... that's brilliant! Why didn't I think of that? Get Parker on the phone, it's time to tag this man!" So if we can accept the very elementary notion that the Buffalo Bills explored the possibility of using the franchise tag on Byrd, but elected not to do so, then we must ask ourselves: why not? And it is in that "why not" that I think the most interesting scenarios exist--and they are scenarios that won't be resolved until the start of free agency--which is not until next week. As I see it, there are 2 scenarios: A) Byrd was not/is not/never was going to resign with the Buffalo Bills, so no matter how much money we offered him, he was leaving. Why is this scenario unlikely? Because of the report that came out this weekend saying talks were going well between the sides... hell... because of the fact that the two sides even sat down to talk. AHHH, but if they sat down to talk, and Byrd didn't resign, and the Bills didn't tag him, that leaves only scenario B) Byrd was always going to/was never not going to/always planned on--gauging his true worth on the free agent market. Byrd wants to see how much he can make, in the prime of his career, for one monster, guaranteed, front loaded, big-boy pay day. Now, if we accept scenario B as the truth, that leaves some pieces that need to be filled in... I would suggest that Parker and Byrd told the Bills--if you tag us, this will be our last year in Buffalo, and we will hold out until the last possible day before we report to camp. If you do not tag us, we will give you a chance to match whatever offer we receive. So--I don't know if anyone has made this prediction yet, but allow me--next Wednesday, March 12, Byrd will resign with the Buffalo Bills, and will be the highest paid safety in the game.

Hey look at that--another marquee Bills player leaves town. Now, I just need a Chris Brown report from mini camp saying Duke Williams looks "quick, explosive, and hungry," interspersed with a quote or two from maybe Gilmore (?) saying that Duke's "a ballhawk", and I'll be texting my friends something along the lines of: "you know, it might not be that bad that Byrd left..." Throw into that something along the lines of a laser of a pass from EJ against the Giants third stringers in the second quarter of the hall of fame game (when Marrone keeps him in for an extra quarter,) that results in Woods running in untouched to cut the lead to 17-7; Mix in an ESPN.com fantasy report saying "Spiller could be one to watch this season as he looks to be fully recovered from a high ankle sprain that limited his explosiveness in 2013" And add a final touch of the Bills leading for most of game 1, opening week in Miami, only to give up a last second touchdown pass from Tannehil to lose 24-21, And I estimate that right around October I'll be on here saying: "if we win or next 7, that week 17 home game against the Jets will be to put us at 9-7 and steal a wild card spot", and Byrd will be a forgotten memory, just like Whitner Lynch Greer Poz Levitre et. al

I don't mean to be a conspiracy theorist, or to pick up the flag for the other side just for the sake of flag waving... but I think another point needs to be brought up, and I'm sure it's a point that most will write off or just outright disagree with, (even more so because it's buried on page 22), but none the less: The NFL is a multi, multi billion dollar organization, with remarkably little oversight. It is run by a man who is elected (and paid) by the owners of the 32 franchises that make up this organization. Essentially 33 men charged with steering a ship that rakes in more money than most countries--anually! Sports hold a hallowed place in America, so daring to argue that things "aren't on the up and up" is not a popular opinion, a welcome discussion, or a tolerated view point. But I would say this: how many multi-billion dollar corporations are free from corruption? What does this mean, practically? And what, exactly, am I getting at? We say things like "the Bills are 25 million under the cap, signing Byrd should be a no-brainer", and we view that statement, that position, purely from a sports perspective. And why not? We're Bills fans! We should want our team to resign it's best player. And hell, maybe when it's all said and done, they will resign him. But maybe, just maybe, there's more going on than meets the eye. Because at the end of the day, Ralph Wilson is an executive in a multi-billion dollar organization... so like it or not, he makes decisions that reverberate deeper than signing a free agent to win the Super Bowl. I will leave you to make up your own conspiracy theories as to where the money goes, and who controls it. But I would caution you to separate your "fandom" from your business sense, and your common sense. These are massive organizations, and someone needs to massage the books. You might not like it, or think it sexy, but these men that have been running the Bills for all these decades have done one thing: keep an extremely succesful, profitable, and enjoyable business in Buffalo, New York, as opposed to Toronto, Los Angeles, London, or any other world class city. Do I want the Bills to win? Yes. But that doesn't mean I trust Marrone and Whaley to make the decisions that result in the Bills staying a part of the 32 executives that make up the NFL. And you shouldn't either.

although they are, for the most part, god awful, the addition of a rapier in the belt of the raiders uniform is one of the coolest ideas for a uniform change i've seen in quite awhile.

haha, yeah i suppose. or you could be even more cynical and say that the NFL really is moving away from brady and the pats, and they would like to have a young, hot team on the rise from south beach.

that game against new england has the very real posibility of being a game that might keep the patriots OUT of the playoffs. I want EJ playing. that would be so freaking sweet.

already posted this thread. let me add to your glee. IF Baltimore beats new england this week Miami beats buffalo this week and then in week 17 Baltimore beats cincy miami beats the jets and we beat new england not only does new england not win the division--they miss the playoffs. Is it worth beating miami this weekend? Im torn. Beating NE in NE to keep them out of the playoffs would probably be the best bills moment since 2000. Also, in that scenario, if the colts lose to kansas city this week, the freaking dolphins would get a BYE.

If the Ravens win tomorrow night against Detroit Miami beats Buffalo next week Baltimore beats New England next week and Both Baltimore and Miami win week 17 That Bills Patriots game could be flexed and would be a game that if new england lost, they would miss the playoffs!!! I may be a dolphins fan next week, just to see something that amazing week 17.

I couldn't disagree more. As a manager that sometimes goes into jobs "cold", establishing the culture you want is paramount--maybe even more important than the work you do. You could have a team of 8 people under you, and if the most talented one is a malcontent, the entire group is ruined. It's not rocket science, and it's not the coach losing the locker room, it's just human nature. Maybe after that Pittsburgh game, Stevie says "welcome to life as a Buffalo Bill" in a wide receiver meeting, and the young guys (who surely look up to him) laughed. That's poison, it undermines everything. And quite frankly, there isn't a player on this roster, aside from Mario Williams, who is talented enough to be able to be a malcontent and have his opinion carry weight. Chan and Buddy established this roster, and as it stands, it doesn't have the talent to win more than 6 games. It hasn't had that ability for four years. Who knows what the cancer in the locker room is? It could be anyone. But whatever cuts the front office wants to make after this season is fine by me, and it should be fine by you as well. Because after last weeks game against Tampa Bay, this roster as it was contstructed by Buddy/Gailey had played every single team in the NFL over the last 3 seasons and this season--and were outclassed by all of them. The problem isn't Marrone, the problem is the roster. Cutting the dead weight doesn't mean bringing in choir boys--as I said earlier, Alonso is no angel. A lot of this goes unspoken in the NFL, but part of the reason teams like New England and Indy/Denver have been so successful is that those great QBs they have are also great character guys who can lead the team, and carry out the coaches philosophy--those kinds of leaders keep guys like randy moss, marvin the cold blooded killer harrison, or chad ochocinco in line. We, apparently, don't have that. I look forward to seeing who gets cut. This is true to an extent, but New England's roster is simply awful, and the star players are all injured. Talent wins, but it needs a system to succeed in, a frame work to place the talent in. If tom brady snickered every time beli was addressing the team, they wouldn't be where they are. talent is part physical, and part mental. CJ has all the talent in the world but is my least favorite bill since jp losman.

i don't think we're "young", but i like the youth that whaley and marrone brought in. i think that the guys that we think of "veterans" on the team suck--specifically; spiller, stevie, chandler, and yes, fred jackson now. i would be fine if all of them were cut outright, but i would take 5th and 6th rounders for stevie and freddy, and a fourth for spiller. i trust whaley, a lot. i think there will be a lot of turnover this offseason, and i expect the bills to make great strides next year. don't judge marrone based on the Bills, judge marrone based on the rookies and second year guys--in that sense he's doing great. i like what i've seen from goodwin, alonso is a stud, and ej has shown flashes of greatness. the lack of talent on the roster is atrocious though. i would expect the bills to be very aggressive in free agency this coming season.

i would take a fourth rounder for spiller. he sucks.

This draft was conducted by Marrone and Whaley, and it's one of the best drafts the Bills have had in a very long time. Kiko was a "bad character" guy coming out of college, and they picked him second, and he's been (literally) an all star. So, for people to assume that they're going to cut the talent and bring in "high character" guys is not only based on nothing, it actually runs counter to what the team has done so far under this coach/gm. I think there are guys on this team that we just assume are good, because we know their names, and they were the "best of the worst" for the past 4 years. Spiller, Stevie, Fred Jackson, Chandler. Good. Riddance. I'd be happy if Spiller never played another down for the Bills--EJ Manuel is not the problem with the offense. CJ "im too scared to run between the tackles" Spiller is the reason that no one fears our ground game. 3 yards and a cloud of dust, combined with EJ's ability to avoid turnovers, and a defense that can get off the field (when the field isn't 30 yards long, like it has been all season), in Buffalo winters, is all this team needs to win the division next year. lol. 4 wins, 6 wins, 6 wins the last 3 years. where's the talent? just because you watch 16 bills games a year and know the team front to back, doesn't mean theyre talented. it just means you know their names. And how are they "regressing". That game against Atlanta was a great football game, the Bills played their asses off, the ball just didn't bounce their way. The Tampa game sucked, yes, but for a team loaded with young players, and a rookie QB, theyre allowed to lose and lose ugly--especially on the road. There is just way too much over reaction by the Bills fanbase following that loss. The season really was "over" when EJ took that hit in Cleveland. The wheels came off during that month when EJ was gone. Hopefully next year is different, but we're going to need some better talent at running back for that to happen. EJ might have s*cked last week against Tampa throwing the ball, but he was also our leading rusher with 29 yards, so... bye bye Spiller.

they will pay lip service to saying they want "change", but nothing will be done--watch a commercial for a football game. Beer. That's where money comes from. Ad partners. Us 30-40-50 year olds are the demo that they're targeting on our couch. 18-34 year old males are who they want in the stadium. If you're out of that demo, don't complain about the stadium. you're not "supposed" to be there.

changed to show that this stuff can happen anywhere in america, whenever alcohol is involved. your story isn't unique, it's boring. lol. there is no "solution". congratulations--you're growing up, we all are. go to a bar at 2am, look around, and then come post on here that bars should be cleaned up. or concerts. or anything else where young people gather, drink, and get rowdy. people complaining don't need to look at how to fix the ralph, they need to look in the mirror and figure out how to age gracefully. stop trying to chide the 22 year olds for having too much fun at the house party that you're not really invited to anymore. or, accept that that's pretty much the environment you're walking into. you go to the stadium for the experience, not for an amazing view. hell, why WOULDN"T you want to watch from your warm house, on your flatscreen tv, as the bills get pounded by the dolphins in 20 degree, snowy weather. guess who goes to a game like that? drunk kids looking to party and have a good time. and im in my 30s and don't drink, so i'm not trying to to defend the hedonism of the stadium for me and my group of friends. the people in the stadium don't need to "grow up", the grown ups need to get over the fact that they have grown up.

if you ever get the chance to play a madden game that has the bills jerseys from the donahoe/levy era... try the white jerseys on blue pants from that era, and see what our uniforms SHOULD have looked like. get your crucifex and nails ready, but ill just say it: those uniforms were awesome, and should still be our uni's today.

This. This is exactly the point i was trying to make with this thread. Too me, for whatever reason, the NFL has always seemed larger than life. A violent chess game played between super human athletes to determine the general feeling of happiness in the 32 most important cities in America. It was (is) a true cultural phenomenon--EVERYONE knows what football is, and EVERYONE knows how popular it is--regardless of if you think baseball is America's past time, or soccer is the world's sport. It's now been turned into a complete "production". Every aspect of it is so legislated, it's missing that SPARK, that violence, that spontaneity, that excitement, that drama, that unbelievable feeling that you just saw something incredible while the whole world was watching. To this DAY I remember Bills/Pats, 1998, pass interference. That was one call 15 years ago. SAME call has happened how many times this season in the final minute? Off the top of my head: bills panthers, bills falcons, patriots browns, patriots panthers. IDK man... all I can tell you is that I have lived and breathed this sport for a long time... and it's starting to feel pretty forced.

Of course the Bills being terrible contributes to my overall lack of excitement for the NFL... but there's more to it. I watched a replay of the Oilers Bills game (greatest comeback ever) this summer--when optimism for the Bills season was still in my heart. It's downright alarming to watch a game from 20 years ago, it's like 2 different sports. That game could not happen in today's NFL. It just couldn't. There were so many "blown" calls, so many things that would have been reviewed. But yet, that game is one of the greatest moments in NFL history, not just as a Bills fan--it's part of NFL lore. To me, that's the difference between then and now. The games were played back then, and the results and action on the field shaped the stories. Now, the games are... marketed?... forced? I dont know the exact word I'm searching for, but it's as if drama is manufactured and forced down our throats now, to prove how amazing the game is. But, the NFL doesn't need to prove how amazing the NFL is, it just needs to be the NFL. That Ravens/Vikings game yesterday is a prime example to me. Sure, some amazing plays were made in the last 2 minutes, but would that have happened if kickoff rules were the way they were before? If PI calls were the same? If review didn't exist? That ending was TOO amazing to be amazing... just like the Patriots game, or every other game that seems like the outcome of the game is determined in the last 3 minutes only, and the preceding 57 minutes are worthless. That's how the NBA is now, and I fear it's how the NFL is headed. "keep the game close until 2 minutes, then may the best team win"

Is the blush starting to come off the rose for anyone else? It seemed very... I don't want to say "scripted"... but very.... out of the hands of the players this week--across the league. (I truly don't think theres some vast conspiracy to get the Patriots in the Super Bowl, or to have certain teams win, or whatever). But the referees have SO much discretion now--to review every scoring play, to throw pass interference flags for incidental contact in the deciding moments of a game, to penalize a hit on Glennon by Byrd, but not a hit on EJ when he slid... The high degree of control that seemingly everyone has over the game, except the men actually PLAYING the damn game. Nothing is spontaneous in the league anymore, to the point that when you're seeing something that should be amazing, like the end of that Ravens game, for instance, it just feels forced, and then when you see something mundane, like that Browns victory over the Patriots, it is replaced by an almost "forced" drama--that wasn't pass interference, and the Patriots touched the ball before 10 yards on the onsides kick. This era of high definition, 20 camera angles, and let's make everything "FAIR" is ruining the sport for me. There is no more magic, I am losing my obsession.

Hit in the knee, carted off the field. Our division to win next year.

ONE play to define this franchise? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW0KrWHEiFA best fans in the world, best stadium in football. You can post videos to all of the failures in the world, and all of the reasons why we're a second rate organization. But at the end of the day, or more accurately, at the start of the season, 75,000 people show up to cheer on the underdog. To root for david against goliath. And every year we swear we won't. But week 1 next year, we'll be there, convincing each other that THIS is our year. So post all the failures you want-that doesn't define this team. The fact that AFTER all those failures, we're still here cheering--that defines this team.

he definitely was a scrub... but he was a Buffalo Bill--the problem is, the majority of our team has been scrubs for 15 years and counting. he is a guy that was "productive" in the sense that there isn't anyone on the waiver wire RIGHT NOW that would be an immediate upgrade over him, so previous regimes/coaches would have gladly kept him and maintained status quo until the offseason. It would have been a situation of, "we may be bad, but if we cut him, we'll be worse. we may be bad, but we can still go 8-8 and make the playoffs. we're building a foundation, etc." with this regime, it seems to be more of an attitude of "he's not productive for us. we're 4-8. we suck. he's cut. next man up." it pains me to say it, because he is my favorite bill since jim kelly, but i truly believe stevie johnson gets cut this offseason. for right or wrong, this regime wants to build this organization a certain way. a tough, aggressive defense, and a fast, up tempo offense. i expect to see byrd resigned, and a draft that focuses on athletic olinemen, a rb, and big, fast receiver(s). another LB would be great. i also expect this team to target some weaknesses in free agency, and make a playoff push next year. there are some naysayers, and i am way too much of an optimist for my own good, but this team literally could have won every single game this year save the saints and steelers game. and, unlike years past, it's not just that we could have won those games, there were distinct moments in each of our losses where i thought, "damn, were GOING TO WIN this ball game." were a good, young team, and im excited to see the coaches and front office looking to improve the team, rather than wallow in the constant mediocrity that has been buffalo bills football for a decade and a half. no, cutting tashard choice isn't the solution, but keeping him clearly wasn't the solution either. he was a sub-par nfl player, that had no real role here, but he was a big name. he was a "hard" cut, but the front office did it. it's not a sexy move, it's not a seat filler move, but it's a damn good football move, and im excited to see the bills making those moves in december, record be damned.

I couldn't agree more. I don't want to use too much hyperbole--but this is maybe the most exciting move the bills have made since drafting EJ. It tells me a few things--the coach and gm feel very comfortable in their standing with the team, and have probably been told by brandon they will be in place either as long as brandon is there (until ralph dies) or 4-5 years--whichever comes first. Second--and this might be the most important: We have some real talent at leadership positions (front office, sideline, etc.) I am one of the guys that plays with the ESPN playoff calculator until i can get the 6-10 bills in at the final wild card spot. I'm glad the coaches are not. Choice might not have been a "big name" player, but he's big enough. It's exciting to see the organization going into evaluation mode now, with 4 games left to develop ej, grow the offense, see what we have, and what our TRUE areas of need are. This is the difference between being proactive and reactive. Gailey or Jauron et. al would have been giving the company line "were still alive, we still have a chance." This moves shows the players: were here to win. If you don't win, you wont be here, and we'll use the games left that are now meaningless (because you didn't win) to find your replacements who can win.

I agree! I just don't think it's... "fair"... the way college football operates, and because of that, literally every second of any college game I watch, I obsess on that thought. And I don't mean "fair" the way American soccer moms interpret that phrase, I mean fair as in: there are no concrete guidelines laid out for anyone in terms of "do this, and you can play for the title game". If the Bills went 16-0, and a group of judges handed down an edict that we couldnt go to the playoffs because of our strength of schedule? That the 15-1 Patriots and 15-1 Broncos would be going instead of us? Lol. It's madness.