st. pete gogolak

All of this is terrific. It really is. But does anyone actually know if he can uh, play football. I mean if he is playing NAIA, he should absolutely dominate. If he didn't, why didn't he? He should have been blowing up games single-handed.

I really wanted (thought) Bills' FO would go OLB in Round 2 (Ayers/Houston/Reed) and was very suprised that they went CB. I thought that would be a great complement piece after drafting Dareus. Not only did they not draft an OLB in Round 2, they didn't take one period. I understand you can't fill every hole in one draft, but as it stands now, we're looking at Moats (second year converted DE) and Merriman (oft injured vet three years away from last decent season) as starting OLBs. Did the FO avoid the position because they believe Maybin will compete for a starting job? Will they be looking at the position in FA? Personnally, I don't think Maybin makes it past training camp but I'm curious if any posters think that draft strategy was influenced by a belief that Maybin can actually play a role next year.

I HATE THIS TEAM SO MUCH!!!!! If CB was a "position of need", every single GD position on this team is a "position of need". How about Ayers? How about Rudolph? Both immediate starters. How about an ILB? Moronic, moronic pick. The beat goes on and on and on.

You know how lame picking a conerback is? In the 1987 draft we passed on Rod Woodson to take Shane Conlan. Woodson was selected to the 50th Anniversary All-NFL team and is in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Has anyone on this board EVER, EVER lamented passing on Woodson? Would Woodson have made the difference in winning a SuperBowl in the early 90's? No and No! You don't pick a conerback with the no. 3 pick. You just don't.

Man oh man, you can critize a lot of Bills' drafts (in fact, there are about two or three dozen you can critize pretty easily). The 1985 draft wasn't one of them. Derrick Burroughs was a heck of a football player. He had one stupid play in the '88 AFC championship but he was easily our best corner (which is saying something on a team that had Nate Odomes). How about saying that if he didn't suffer a career ending injury in 1989, the Bills beat the Giants in '90 and go on to win one or two more Super Bowls. It's conceivable. Also, can we please put to bed the constant drumbeat in multiple threads that someone Bruce Smith was a bordeline bust in his first year or two. He wasn't. He had 6.5 sacks his rookie year and 15 (!) in his second. Yeah, he got better but he didn't go from bad to good. He went from very good to unreal.

In the 44 years since the first combined NFL-AFL draft in 1967, the Bills have had 48 first round picks. Here's my rankings with the occasional comment: 1) Bruce Smith '85 2) O.J. Simpson '69 3) Jim Kelly (2) '83 4) Joe DeLamielure (2) '73 5) Will Wolford (2) '86 6) Jim Richter '80 7) Antoine Winfield '99 8) Eric Moulds '96 9) Shane Conlan '87 10)Jerry Butler (2) '78 (injuries cut short what could have been a Hall of Fame career) 11)Reuben Brown '95 12)Henry Jones '91 13)Nate Clements '01 14)John Fina '92 15)Derrick Burroughs (2) '85 (injuries cut short promising career) 16)Lee Evans '04 17)Ronnie Harmon '06 (great work for San Diego after he left the Bills) 18)Willis MaGahee '03 19)Mario Clark '76 20)Thomas Smith '93 21)Haven Moses '68 (stuck around for a long time, put up decent numbers with the Broncos) 22)Antoine Smith '97 23)Jeff Burris '94 24)Donte Whitner '06 25)Paul Seymour '73 26)Eric Wood (2) '09 (mostly on potential) 27)Marshawn Lynch '07 28)C.J. Spiller '10 (all on potential) 29)J.D. Hill '71 (should have had a better career) 30)Leodis McKelvin (mostly on potential) 31)John Pitts '67 32)Tom Cousineau '79 (only #1 pick never to play a down with the Bills) 33)Greg Bell '84 (starting to move into bust territory) 34)J.D. Williams '90 35)Terry Miller '78 (one good year and poof) 36)Mike Williams '02 37)Walt Patulski '72 38)Tom Ruud '75 39)Erik Flowers '00 40)Reuben Gant '74 41)J.P. Losman (2) '04 42)Tony Hunter '83 43)Al Cowlings '70 44)John McCargo (2) '06 45)Perry Tuttle '82 46)Booker Moore '81 (maybe unfair because of the Guillan-Barre) 47)Phil Dokes '77 48)Aaron Maybin '09 Suspicions confirmed - 11 DB's selectly #1, more than any other position; 9 RB's, only 2 QB's (none with the Bills' first selection); pretty good luck selecting OL (with exception of M. Williams) and WR's. No luck picking TE. Hopefully, this Thursday will turn the page on the recent disasters and start a new chapter with some competent selections.

In Peter King's MMQB, he says Houston is very much interested in trading up to get Peterson. Take it for what it's worth but I'd be thrilled to move back to #11 and pick up another #2 in this year's draft and an additional pick in next year's draft. And no, I have no idea what "the chart" says is equivalent value. This team needs as many picks as it can accumulate.

I defy any Bills fan to actually read the article and not gag. It confirms the monstrosity that was Marv Levy - GM. My two favorite quotes from the article. "Defensive tackle was a glaring need (explaining decision to move up to take McCargo)." Yah think? Damn right, defensive tackle was a glaring need. It was THE NEED for that team and yet, you pass up not one (Ngata who turns into an all-pro) but two (Bunkley who's actually turned into a very solid pro) quality DT's. The other quote concerned trading down and basically saying it wasn't worth an extra fourth to trade down and miss out on Whitner. Really, a fourth? Denver wanted Cutler and traded a first and a medium high second to move up. We EASILY could have made that deal.

The 28 inch waist comment is a joke, right? That's classic chick measurements from the old days - 36-28-36. No one is stupid enough to draft a defensive end with a 28 inch waist.

Yes, amatuers had Maybin rated as a first rounder but did any of the pros (other than the Bills)? I doubt it. He was a one-year wonder, his sacks came against garbage teams, he disappeared in a bowl game against quality competition, he was obviously too light to play DE in the NFL and he wasn't overly impressive at the combine. Other than that, great choice.

This was my post and it was admittedly a pretty dumb one. I guess the point I was trying to make that still has some relevance to today's team is that the Bills have a history of not really understanding what makes a 3-4 defense work. It's not that complicated - huge run-stuffing NT that can clog the middle and athletic, versatile OLB who can rush the passer as well as cover. Easier said than done. But it's painful that no one recognized how good Bruce Smith was and decided to build the defense around him. Yeah, he had an unbeleivable career but it would have been even better in a 4-3. He wouldn't be ranked behind Reggie White. The only time we "got it" was when Bulter brought in Ted Washington and Bryce Paup. Perfect. As to today's team, Kyle Williams is a good player but not at the nose. Move him to end. If Troup isn't the answer at NT, find one. I like the Merriman signing. It shows what we need. Go draft Fairly, Dareus or Quinn. Good nose and two quality OLBs and we will be in business.

Sick of mock draft threads already, sick of Ngata/Whitner threads, etc. so I thought I'd throw a curveball out there. 1987 - Bills pick Shane Conlan and pass on University of Miami DT Jerome Brown. Could Brown have been the player to put the Bills over the top and bring home a Lombardi trophy? It's an interesting question and it highlights a couple of points from the Super Bowl years. First, while Bill Polian was the greatest GM in Bills history and one of the all-time NFL front office greats, he wasn't infallible. I think he biggest weakness was not bringing in great coaches to match the greatness of the players he brought in. Walt Corey was the best DC they could find? Really? Pretend that they had a competent DC who realizes that it is an incredible waste of talent to keep Bruce Smith as a 3-4 DE and they decide to make a switch to a 4-3. Brown comes in to play next to Smith and causes utter havoc up front. They still make the deal for Cornelius Bennett and have Bennett and Talley on the outside and trade for a veteran MLB to run the show. Potentially, it's one of the best defenses of all time. Instead they stay with a 3-4 and fail to fully utilize Smith's talents and ultimately start Jeff Wright (a perfect penetrating 4-3 DT) as an undersized NT and get run over in four consecutive Super Bowls. What's the lesson that the Bills never seem to learn (or in the case of Ted Washington and Pat Williams - learn then forget)? Job one - get some beef up front and stop the other damn team from running the ball on you.

Not that a December mock means anything at all but a #4 slot has us missing out on "the best QB prospect to come out since Peyton Manning" AND the "next Bruce Smith". Good Lord! Enjoy those wins over the Lions and the Bengals!

As long as Ralph Wilson owns the Bills and Bill Belichick coachs the Pats, they won't compete. Ever. As a Bills fan since 1965, that's an incredibly painful statement to write but it's true. As much as I hate the Pats, they are light-years ahead of every other franchise in the league. Just a couple of examples. Look at the drafts for the entire league over the last 20 - 30 years. What jumps out? First, it is absolutely astounding how many first round picks bust. Not just for the Bills but for every team in the league. Second, contrary to the myth of the low round Pro Bowlers, very few picks after round 4 pan out at all. So what do the Pats do as a matter of routine? Trade out of round one and stockpile picks in rounds 2, 3 and 4. They bust on a lot of picks, just like everyone else, but stockpiling picks in rounds 2, 3 and 4 gives them more hits than just about anyone else. Belicheck recognized the increasing importance of the tight end in the modern NFL and has used #1's (Graham and Watson) to upgrade the position. This year he hit on two terrific rookies with high draft picks (Gronowski and Hernandez). If Hernandez was picked by the Bills, he would already be in the running for the franchise's all-time tight end. The Pats are the most ruthless franchise in NFL history. They trade veterans for maximum value (#1's for Bledsoe, Branch, Seymour, #2 for Cassell !!, #3 for Moss) and get great veterans for minimum value (#2 for Dillon, #4 for Moss). I can envision a trade of Brady in a couple of years for 3 no. 1's - probably to the Bills. In my mind, Belichick is easily the greatest head coach of all-time. This year he is GM, OC, DC and HC and the team is 10-2. He is, to me, the Bills' single greatest "villian" of all time. We win Super Bowl XXV if not for Belichick. He destroyed Flutie's run as Jets' DC. And of course, the last 10 years of pure humiliation. Man, this is getting way too pesimisstic. Somebody out there give me some reason for optimism.

That's why IMO Joe Gibbs is one of the best three or four coaches of the last 50 years. He won three Super Bowls with Joe Theisman, Doug Williams and Mark Rypien as his quarterbacks.

The thing about Rueben Brown is that after his first year people thought he was going to be Joe D. or John Hannah good. It turns out he wasn't. But he was a very solid starter in the NFL for a long time and as other readers have mentioned, most of us would kill to have a Rueben Brown on this line today.

Disagree totally. Say what you will about Jones (and I put him right behind Belichek in pantheon of all-time Bills villains), he has an absolute burning desire to win NFL Championships. Same thing with Synder for that matter. Wilson has, had and always will have a burning desire to make money from his franchise (please note I'm not saying he's cheap - two different things). Winning Super Bowls has always, always, always been secondary. Ask yourself why we didn't go after Charles Haley in '92 and Jones did. Difference between winning and losing a Super Bowl.

God knows there has been an overabundance of Aaron Maybin threads but I don't think this question has been addressed head-on in a thread. Here's my objective criteria in answering the question: 1) How high was the pick? The higher the pick, the bigger the bust. 2) What kind of production did we get out of the guy? 3) Did we pass on any quality players of need in picking the guy? 4) Bonus factors (did we trade up to get him? did we draft him knowing he was severely injured and wouldn't play for two years? of course, nobody's stupid enough to do that!) By these criteria, you can make a strong case for Maybin being the all-time Bills' bust. He was an awfully high pick (#11); the production we've gotten and almost certainly will get is essentially zero; and we passed up at least four quality players at need positions in selecting him (Orakpo, Cushing, Oher and Matthews). At least Mike Williams gave us a couple of years as an ok starting right tackle (his problem was that he wasn't Orlando Pace or Anthony Munoz or even Bryant McKinnie). Losman was a horrendous pick but more because of the trade up to get him than anything else. You really have to go back in Bills' history to find a worse pick. Rueben Gant was a starting tight end for a couple of seasons. I think the only three that rival Maybin are Al Cowlings (#5) '70, Walt Patulski (#1) '72 (special shout out to Fred Swendson 3rd round in '72, #53 overall pick in the draft and got cut in training camp) and Phil Dokes (#12). Dokes was out of the league after two seasons and contributed nothing. My vote - if Maybin is cut next training camp, he will join Phil Dokes as the worst Buffalo Bills draft pick of all time.

The principal argument made by the four or five apologists who supported the Kelsey extension (that number may be down to zero after watching him play the last couple of games), was that there wasn't much downside to the extension. If he was cut next year, it would "only" cost the Bills $2.4 million. That argument misses the point. The point is that bad decisions by the Bills lead to more bad decisions down the road. There're about a million examples of this but here's an easy one. - The galactically stupid decision to bring Marv Levy back as GM leads to the horrendous hiring of Dick Jauron. - Those hires put Levy and Jauron in the draft room for the DB-heavy '06 draft (Whitner, Youbouty, Simpson in first four rounds - not to mention megabust McCargo) and the disasterous '07 draft (Lynch, Poz, Edwards and Wright). - The moronic decision to extend Jauron after his club beat up on a couple of patsies during the '08 season, led to the decision not to fire Jauron after the '08 season, despite the most monumental collapse in team history. - That decision put Jauron in the draft room for the '09 draft and undoubtedly contributed to Aaron Maybin being a Buffalo Bill. And so it goes. The point is that the Kelsey extension was dumb and that dumb decision may result in someone making another stupid decision later on - passing up a quality LB in free agency or passing up a quality LB in the draft. It's got to stop. Waive him after the season's over and let's move on.

Great summary! It just goes to show you that bad decisions lead to more bad decisions.

Even a casual observer of the '05 Bills would have known that their no. one priority was a defensive tackle who could plug up the middle. Lo and behold, the consensus best DT in the draft falls to us and we pass. That's not even the part that really gets me. OK, you're hell bent to take Whitner. Fine. (My brother says that they had actually targeted Huff and panicked when Oakland picked him the spot before. I don't have anything to confirm that however.) No question Denver was looking to trade up to get Cutler. Why in the world wouldn't you trade from #8 to #15 and pick up an extra second? You're concerned that Whitner wouldn't be there at #15????? That would have given us a one, two two's and two three's and a chance to stockpile some decent talent. Instead, we screw up the one and blow a two and a three to move back to pick McCargo. That sequence was all you needed to know about the compentency of Levy/Jauron.