Mango

If the McBeane doesn’t take any steps this offseason I can see Allen’s career going similar to Stafford, Rivers, and a couple others.

He is included and leading the vote.

A big part of what you’re saying is why I think we almost have to keep Edmunds. 2018 is likely our best overall draft by a wide margin. If we don’t re-sign Edmunds, we will have only kept 1 player (Allen) from our best draft class in last 5 offseason. That to me is so unfathomable. I can barely wrap my head around it. You’re almost guaranteed to suck for years 6,7,8 when your 2,3,4, and 5th drafts are mediocre to bad. Then on top of that you somehow don’t have enough money to keep anybody from your first and best draft?

If Allen was taking shots deep so he didn’t feel pain. Ok I can accept that. But based on Allen’s playing style I don’t fully buy into it because he plays this way a lot. But if this is a continuation of the “he was less accurate because of his arm” conversation this is pointless. Sure we’d like him to go back to being a 70% (‘20) passer instead of 63.3% (‘21 and ‘22). But the gripe with Allen this season (for me) hasn’t really been tossing around uncatchable balls or completion percentage. It’s been decision making. I will post it for the 100th time. I run through the all-22 after every game. There are guys underneath. There are open receivers. The very best example is the link below. Tough throw and tough catch to Davis in the end zone. But Allen doesn’t even bother to look to an embarrassingly wide open Shakir to his right. None of that has to do with Allen’s elbow. And plays like this happen every single week over and over again. Allen bid a freak, but he needs to learn to play the game like he has less arm talent. https://imgur.com/a/PG2vZc7

This. I don’t think they got fancy. Or Bernard was a luxury pick. I think they thought he would be a player. Which I think is actually worse. If they were getting cute that’s a much easier fix than being that wrong.

I think they need to reset into being a normal football team for a minute. They’ve continued to trade draft picks for vets for forever. They need to reload.

Beane inherited the 10th most expensive line in the NFL. He then made it the most expensive in 2019, 2020. 2nd most expensive in 2021. They did drop to 17th this year. But are currently the 3rd most expensive DL in cap dollars for 2023. All the while spending a 1, 1, 2, 2, and 3rd round picks on the DL alone. That same unit has regularly been a top 5 paid unit across the league. You can break it down however you want. But our spend vs return has been abysmal.

We know we haven’t invested much in the draft on OL. We’ve largely used FA. In terms of cost, Beane inherited the 30th most expensive (2nd cheapest) OL in 2018. He then went out and spent the 12th, 3rd, 5th, and 20th most in pure cap dollars. None of that bothers me…except for the fact that we’ve never had the 3rd or 5th best line in football. In fact I don’t find any of them remarkably better or worse than any of the others. And this paired drafting RB’s we either don’t like or use over and over again in the 2nd, 3rd, and 3rd rounds is why we’re talking about what this 2023 Buffalo Bills team might or might not be. If we do the same on DL, Beane inherited the 10th most expensive line in 2018. Then went on to make it the most expensive 2 years in a row, followed by the 2nd most in 21. It was 17th this year. But 2023 we currently have the 3rd most expensive DL. Then add in AJE, Basham, Rousseau, Philips, Oliver. It’s insane. I think part of being a good leader is providing enough support and freedom to fail. The Pegulas have certainly done that here. Beane has been allowed to allocate as many resources in draft and cash as he wants to both units. He’s allocated more than most if not all of his counterparts around the league. If I invested as much time and capital in a project as Beane has into both lines and this was the return I got, I’d be on a very very short leash. Likely put on a PIP.

For poops and laughs I was curious what the GAA and Point Differential of that 99 team would be if they just had average goal tending. Average Save Percentage league wide was .905 in 98-99. The team saw 2461 shots. Adjusted for average goal tending the Sabres GAA 2.85. Hasek was averaging 1.87. Nearly a goal a game less. An average goaltender would move the Sabres from 2nd over all to 22nd in a league of 27. Their goal differential was +32, it moves to -32 and down to 20th in the league. Rolosons S% .909. So pretty similar to the above. The only other similar swing I can think of in pro sports in my lifetime are the 2011 Colts without Manning. But even that isn't the same. That Colts team is probably average with anybody better than Curtis Painter and Dan Orlovsky behind center...and actually trying to win games...

I don't think Florio's take is that far off. But I think the outcomes have more depth than his flippancy in regards to results. The Bills are talent deficient at a number of positions outside of QB. Even positions where they have allocated tons of resources. They also have some (Diggs) players who are vocally unhappy with the organization. Either McBeane will prove us wrong that he has been very good at identifying, drafting, signing, and playing young players and the Bills will win 10-12 games this year and a playoff game. Or they have done a bad job in consecutive years and this year will be the result where they win 8-10 games, lose the division, and lose in the wild card or not make it at all. If it is the ladder I think one of, if not both of McBeane will be gone in 2024. It won't be AFCCG/Super Bowl or bust. It will be a competent NFL roster or it won't be. I think that is the tipping point, the results will follow.

I honestly think that voters got Hasek fatigue and that is why he didn't win the Hart a 3rd time. I wasn't sure about adding a second season for Hasek. The 98 Olympics are kind, sorta, maybe, but not really related to the 98-99 season. They really belong in 97-98. Hasek individually may have actually been better in 97-98. Then you add in the Olympics, Vezina, and the Hart trophy. It was stunning. Ultimately I erred on the side of the 4x OT game against NJ, and dragging that mediocre (on their best day) team 6 games against the two greatest goal scorers in league history (5 and 24). And the two best American goal scorers of all time. Those 5-7 years of Haseks peak are the greatest stretch of goaltending in league history. If you put him on the 95-96 Redwings, 18-19 Lightening, or even this years Bruins team, they set an untouchable record for best NHL regular season of all time. Heck, you put prime Hasek on this roster, and they likely skyrocket to Stanley Cup favorites. They would have beat TB 6-1 last night. It is telling that the Sabres have made it to the Stanley cup twice in 50+ years. The only player from the 98-99 roster in the rafters is 39. The 74-75 team has 4. 5 from that era overall. Tim Horton retired the year before they made the Stanley Cup.

This is where I am. I won’t strongly argue against OJ even though I’m team Hasek on this. Those two were pay per view special in those 2-3 seasons. The rest were just really really good. They don’t give you chills.

I would love to include the Bandits. They are the most under rated event in town. An absolute blast to attend. But I honestly don't know anything about lacrosse and I don't follow it, so I have zero point of reference other that Tavares is a HoF and he played/coaches for my team. I just like going to the games. drinking beer, and cheering. If somebody can name a season with any authority where Tavares was actually historically great, I would be happy to include it.

I fully agree. I don't think there is another player in Buffalo sports history that has a permanent bust on the Mount Rushmore of absolute all time best at their position. Bruce is likely the closest, and I think he is still a bit further back from Hasek. That 1998-99 team so was incredibly flawed. They simply were not good. Hasek on the current team would sky rocket the current Sabres roster to the very top of the standings. Oh I definitely wasn't. I meant to put in the OG post that I really didn't come of age until in Buffalo sports until the 90's.

Right, but nobody is calling OJ's 74 season the greatest season by an individual in Buffalo sports history. It is either 73 or 75.

I thought about that. But that’s a group over time.

OJ deserves to be part of the conversation. But as impressive as that feat was, he didn’t even make the playoffs. Hasek single handily dragged the team 6 games in the Stanley Cup. Advantage Hasek.

I think we’d be fine with Davis if Knox was targeted more consistently and/or we had a real NFL slot receiver. Diggs targets are fine. I wouldn’t move those up or down significantly. But I would be much more equitable behind him. In that environment, I don’t think fans are so down on Davis. He’ll be considered a weapon not a liability. The Bills have 1 player over 50 catches, KC has 3. We need to do a better job of making defenses cover everybody. That will help the OL, Diggs, our RB’s, and Allen. There’s some blame to go around on why that doesn’t happen including OC, QB, and the WR themselves. I won’t miss Beasley or Kumerow at all. They were both useless in the pass game. We barely knew Crowder.

I don’t know that Woods has the juice to play outside anymore. At least not in the way this board wants. He’s a savvy vet and good route runner. He could certainly have a home in the slot. I’d be open to that and keeping Davis outside at the right price. That said, we drafted Shakir who does play the slot. At some point we have to let our young guys play full time. We keep the training wheel on some of our rookies waaaay too long. I really liked what Andy Reid said in his post game after the SB re: all the rookies who started and saw playing time. He told them something like “Don’t worry about me sitting you. I don’t have anybody else. Just try hard and get better every week, that’s all you can do. If you can do that we’ll be fine” (paraphrasing)

It’s been nearly 25 years. Kids were born, came of drinking age, got 401k’s, and produced grand children between now and then. What a heart break year and that still might be the best combined year in Buffalo sports history. I was conflicted on whether or not to include OJ.

Full offseason mode. What’s the greatest single season by one player in the cities professional sports history. I’ll create a poll if this picks up, but thought I’d get feedback from some people a bit older than me. I certainly came of age for Buffalo Sports in the 90’s. For me it’s easy and not close. Hasek in 99. 98-99 Domink Hasek: Carried a flawed roster 6 games into the Stanley Cup Final. Won his 3rd Vezina with a .935 S% and 1.85 GAA. There’s an argument that 97-98 might be a better individual season, but he carried the entire team to the show. I think Hasek voter fatigue is the only reason he didn’t get the Hart trophy three years in a row. As I write this and think of all the other players that have come and gone, Hasek is likely the greatest athlete in Buffalo pro-sports history. 1990 Bruce Smith: Bills make their first run to the Super Bowl. Bruce records 19 sacks only overshadowed by Derrick Thomas 20. 7th best season of all time all from the 3-4 DE. 1991 Thurman Thomas: 1400 rushing yards at 4.9 ypc. Plus 600 yards receiving. NFL MVP and OPOY. 7th best season by a RB at the time. 92-93 Alexander Mogilny: 76 goals, 51 assists. 127 points. Tied Selanne in Goals. 7th in total points. 5th best season of all time. He is the only player in the top 30 not in the HoF. Rudy Pikuzinski: Mullets and Mustaches 1975 Bob McAdoo: NBA MVP 34.5 points, 14.1 rebounds. and 2.12 blocks per game, while shooting 51.2% from the field and 80.5% from the free-throw line 1973 OJ Simpson: 2003 yards in 14 games 1975 OJ Simpson: 329 carries for 1817 yds (5.8 ypc) and 16 TDs. 129.8 ypg average; 28 receptions for 426 yds (15.2 ypc) and 7 TDs. 30.2 ypg average. In 14 games he generated 2243 yards and 23TDs. That's 160 ypg and 1.65 TDs per game.

Not to mention the team has their best players under contract until 2025 and they’ll easily be extended into 2030 after the next season or two. It’s so hard to compare the two. Sure Hasek carried a bad team to the Finals but there is no equivalent to the importance of the QB in the NFL. A 17 week season and one off playoffs means you can play above yourself in 5-6 games in a row and win a SB. You just can’t do that in an 82 game season and 7 game playoff series. I give the Bills a chance every year they have Allen. But I don’t like the direction of the team outside of QB. I found them frustrating to watch as the season went on. The Sabres are a lot more fun at the moment. And yes that includes the Leafs game. They got much better as the game went on. I think Haseks 99 season is likely the greatest single season by any player in Buffalo sports history.

I think we have a 2-3 year reset. We have to clear some cap and reassess where and how we allocate our resources. That’s not to say the Bills still can’t be a good team during that time. They can. Hopefully they will. But we wont get the hype or vibe out of OBD for another few years. Stuff like this is what makes the tenures of Tomlin and Harbaugh so impressive. A lot of times really good teams burn so so hit as they chase a trophy, if (when) they inevitably take a step or two, or three back, coaches can lose the locker room. McDermott will be tested.

Hodgins was always quality. He just had some poorly timed injuries at camp. I think the Bills got cute with his roster status. He didn’t “need a chance” I believe he was totally mismanaged, the Bills just thought they could hide him. FJ flashed. Gentry hasn’t. Fred made an NFL roster in 2006 after graduating in 2003. Gentry graduated in 2017. It’s been 6 years now. Jackson made the Bills at 25. Gentry will be 29 before season end this year. I am pretty confident he is a favor to Josh Allen and that’s why he has stuck around for a few seasons. I wish him no ill will, but I would absolutely stunned if he turned into Fred Jackson at the WR position.

Not unimaginable. We almost lost the second game to Miami too. That puts us at 3-3/ 12 wins. KC, 11. CIN 10. I am unwilling at the moment to start flirting with the .500 mark and hope that the Bills find a way against the NFCE and the rest of their opponents. I guess I’ll mark them down with 2 Division Wins vs the Pats per you above. Pats Pats LV WAS DEN TB JAX NYG (I think they win this game) DAL (I don’t get the hype) Steal a game somewhere. 10 wins.