Mango

I think some of the emotional reaction from the fan base isn't hate, or even frustration, it is fear. I think there is a fear that maybe Josh Allen's hot streak was the anomaly, and this very erratic and turnover prone guy is the baseline. Allen has always been a turn over machine. He has more than anybody since coming into the league, which is why there is such a nuanced discussion around these small shifts in ratio. And we want it to be Dorsey, or the lack of runs, or some change in offensive philosophy. I think there is a bit of a come to jesus moment for a lot of people who have to accept that their 1a/1b QB is maybe 2, 3, or even 5th on the list at the moment. This team burned so so hot for a minute there, it is a little bit of a scary pill to swallow. I think we are at a point where this is an issue Josh needs to fix on his own. His decision has been consistently inconsistent for 6 years. My honest scale for Josh Allen's career right now is that if he can get his game right his ceiling can be Favre-esque. But his career progression is pretty (very?) far behind right now. His floor is Matt Stafford with the Lions. Somewhere in between is Eli Manning, which is starting to feel like a decent career trajectory. Some very hot moments, some very cold moments, a rollercoaster for the fan base, and if we are lucky a couple random SB wins (hopefully).

This feels like a nothing burger “our QB has a tendency to be reckless with the ball and his body. We limited plays that exacerbate this problem.” Josh has a very real fumbling problem and has a propensity to risk his body in moments that don’t need it. I don’t think limiting that but using it situationally is controversial. Also, if teams like the Jets can befuddle Allen by only rushing 4 the QB power seems like it would be less effective since there’s enough players committed to cover that off.

I could be happy with that if Josh was 80 for 100, 1200 yards, no TO, and 1 TD, but Diggs, Davis, Kincaide, Knox, Cook, Harty, and Sherfield all lost their pointer fingers and accounted for 17 fumbles. Imagine 17 fumbles and only allowing 7 points. What a defensive stand!

I think part of the trigger is fear and a lot of it. He entered the league this way. His first season and a good portion of his second were full of these bonkers moment. The Houston game is a great example. That was totally absurd. Then we saw this epic leap in 2021, the 13 seconds game, and everything changed. We thought we had THE GUY. Buffalo had arrived. And we have to a certain extent. Mahomes is hands down "THE GUY". There is no 1a/1b conversation anymore. You start to have smart QB's like Warner go "Allen is great but decision making can be really bad", but you write it off because of this stretch in 2021. Then you have this very weird second half of the season where the game starts to be such a struggle for him again. There aren't moments anymore, there are halves of games, or a whole game, or a stretch of games. The fan base isn't hating Allen. They don't want to run him out of town. Their criticisms are all valid. The stuff people are seeing are correct. It is erratic and careless at times. The collective "negative" voice around Allen right now is critical, but the emotion behind it isn't "You suck". They mean "Please don't hurt me!".

The Josh Allen ride is such a rollercoaster,, it is addicting. It seems like every year, no matter how high he raises the bar he still has the ability to have these basement games. The constant thread of huge amounts of turnovers and mental gaffes is concerning. I get the comparison to Favre. I have even made it. The playing style certainly has a lot of similarities at times. But one thing to take into account is that even with all of that, by the time Favre finished his 6th year with Green Bay (7th in the league) he had won 3x NFL MVP's, 3x AP First Team All-Pro, played in 2x SB's, and won 1. His HoF jacket was sized up before he stepped under center in season 8. Josh has a lot of catch up to do to Brett Favre. IMO Allen still has a ceiling of Favre with a couple of championship seasons strung together and maybe an overall floor of Stafford if he never went to Detroit. A good comp might be Eli Manning who had lots and lots of success, but tons of ups and downs. That means Josh is still really good. But there will always be some fan frustration. Unless he puts a hot streak like Favre's together he'll never get the "one bad game" benefit of the doubt like Brady and Manning. It seems as though some fans expect this and that just isn't the way the league has ever worked.

Holy shirt balls. I’ve made the Favre comparison myself. But I didn’t realize that at this point he had already this point with GB (7th year) he’d already done all that plus 2 SB appearances and 3x All Pros.

My next door neighbor (Giants fan) gave me a hard time that maybe Allen is the kid in the 90’s movie where he hurts himself and suddenly becomes a major league pitcher. Then hurts himself again and it all disappears. He was busting my balls. I had a good laugh.

QB’s who have games like this catch some flack. This isn’t Buffalo specific. In my adult lifetime I can only really recall QB’s getting a free pass on these sorts of games once they solidified their spot in the Hall of Fame (ie Brady, Manning, and now Mahommes). Or maybe a recent injury like Burrow or Allen’s UCL last year. But until then the Stanford’s, Eli’s, Cousins, Dak’s, and Allen’s take a lot of flak when they get paid a ton and single handily lose games. And they all had games like this, and they all bounced back.

“We’re doomed” or “SUPERB OWL!”

Kurt Warner is likely to have a field day for this one. He has been pounding the table for a few seasons that Allen is an amazing athlete who is making bad QB decisions. That is a good point I had not thought of. I think you are right on it. But the flip side is that if Josh Allen's strength is his physical gifts, then his weakness is his decision making. If you ask your QB to make better decision (smart decisions - points at head), and he makes worse ones, that is also a problem with the QB. There has to be some middle ground where Josh protects the football/the team(most turnovers since entering the NFL) and playing Josh Allen style football.

I didn't buy them....thank god, some corporation did. Honestly it was a blast. I checked resale and they were $4k a piece. I'd never spend that for a single game ticket that wasn't the SB. So probably a once in a lifetime ticket. Unfortunately I didn't make it to the tunnel I was stuffing my face with shrimp and lobster rolls. I am likely in the background of some of the shots of Rodgers on the cart. I was on the rail in front of the blue tent. You would think they would radio a cart to come over, but it was just one random arm that stuck out the back corner and waived them over.

He’s living the Willy Beaman story arc. He’ll come to his senses, Britt will be back. Let’s just hope he doesn’t go to the Aztecs. Anybody but the Aztecs!

It doesn’t bother me. Part of arriving as a real NFL team is your team being talked about. The entirety of the post wasn’t that I was upset people were saying it. It was more that Josh was so bad he is the headline. Most weeks it’s a split decision. Which is how all these shows are set up. Nick Wright hates Buffalo and Skip Bayless is a Dallas homer. Half of it is choreographed. But I do take note when it’s more or less unanimous. When all the networks agree that there is enough substance to not just have to opposing views get in conflict, you know you really botched some stuff. The only next worse spot to be is irrelevant. Where nobody shirts on you. Nobody sticks up for you. You only get segments because you happen to play “insert high profile team”.

How do we know he is not? You say the team won’t give him enough play calling responsibilities. I raise you they let him call the second half of the Colts pre-season game. I would be floored if they let Allen put on a headset and call parts of a preseason game and didn’t give him some autonomy out on the field. Hell, the QB room has been his buddies for the last few years. How long did we keep his college roommate on the PS again?

I think part of this also implies that Josh isn’t working with Palmer nearly as much. I think they likely interact all the time on a friendly basis. But I don’t think any sort of contracted personal coach would speak so freely. I’m not saying this is a swipe at Josh, or ill will, but this type of commentary seems to hint at a less professional relationship. In my industry if I’m an independent contractor for Apple, I would never go on record to talk about how much better Steve Jobs was. But I might if I just had a bunch of buddies who worked there.

And the dental care!

This seems way cooler than London. Screw the boiled potatoes, bring on the paella!

This is what is up for debate in court. Not whether Terry said it, but whether they did their due diligence. I am not sure they did. I’m also not sure they didn’t. Goodell’s statements don’t help clear the air and I don’t believe Ed Kilgore knows what the league did and didn’t do in 2020. Terry has said something’s in direct contradiction to Trump. But also hosted him here in Buffalo. This whole thing feels like a very tangled mess at every corner.

I actually hate this take. I’d rather Josh be a little too cocky and bet on his eyes by not watching enough film. Or not putting enough care in his diet. There is something about the idea that Josh played the way he did because he “got bored of taking what the defense was giving him” that infuriates me to no end. Josh Allen was so so bad that he’s the topic of conversation for every media outlet this week. People comparing him to Carson Wentz. And he played that way because he was bored?! I’ll take a guy who is missing a piece here or there. Or needs to get better at skill A or B. But to play like crap because you got bored? If that’s the case he’s done in this league forever and he’s entered the realm of uncoachability. That’s insane myopic, selfish, and narcissistic in a way that makes you a consistent danger to your teams. Edit: I am not saying this is the case. I vehemently disagree with this. But also, as a team and a fan base we need this not to be the case. To me this is absolutely worst cash scenario.

Shanahan is likely the best OC in the league right now, at worst second behind Reid. If Shanahan would hate working with a guy, maybe Kyle isn’t the problem. I don’t agree with you, I think Shanahan would welcome Josh with open arms.

That wasn’t a hack, that was me…well I’m kind of a hack, but all I do is post on this message board.

I agree there were some problems with Daboll here and that he did some good things in providing Josh some things he could execute well like plays where everybody ran a hook route, or all crossers and Josh rolling out. Both helped Josh either throw or run. That’s it. But at some point when you pay your guy $250M he has to be good at well…the entire playbook. I think that’s a big criticism I’ve had for some time even regarding the WR position. Like, “woah hold up, you’re telling me that my $250M star QB needs a 1a, 1b at both outside spots, plus a pretty good TE”. When the QB gets laid the expectations change across the board from weapons to executing the entire playbook.

Sometimes I think some of this is revisionist. I remember this board being highly critical of Daboll a lot of times. It’s worth noting that since coming into the league Josh leads the NFL in turnovers. Only 19 of 86 games are under Dorsey. Josh’s most interceptions were 2021 and fumbles were in 2019, both under Daboll. Daboll is a good coach and likely better than Dorsey; but I think there’s a little “grass is greener” going on here. Also maybe a little “OMG, don’t let my franchise QB be broken forever” knee jerk response. (He isn’t broken forever)

The more I sit with this the more I see it similar to Michael Irvin. You can tell Josh to play smart. You can yell at him. But you can’t signal to the public that he’s dumb (pointing at your head). Palmer doesn’t help here. By publicly saying “He misses Daboll” he’s also saying “Josh is broken and needs help”. But also…WTF does Josh pay this guy for. It’s week 1 and this was a mess. How can a private QB coach be like “It’s the OC” after spending more time with him than anybody in the offseason? And then be like “The real secret sauce isn’t me or his current OC, it’s the HC of the Giants?

Let me start by saying Daboll is a good football coach. But let’s also not pretend that Belichick doesn’t hand out compliments to people not in the building all Willy nilly. https://ftw.usatoday.com/2022/10/bill-belichick-praise-chicago-bears-week-7-patriots