Mango

Didn't he run like a 4.4 something at 48 years old. Lets go!

In terms of "wildly different". Most of the criticism around Daboll was play call, play design, situational awareness from players and play calls, getting the TE, RB's, and other WR's involved. What about the running game? Holistically the complaints about what this offensive frustrations are are pretty identical even if some of the "aspects" are different. I do think there are some differences of course. We do a lot more under center this year. A bit more play action. We are more committed to the run. Daboll did a lot of things somethings better or different that helped Josh, we got him moving, used his legs (albeit recklessly at times), a lot of curl routes to help with timing/stationary targets. I think Allen and the offense needs (needed?) to evolve for this to work year in and year out. The Daboll method of toss it 100 times, screw how many turnovers we have, and forget the run game/running backs was never ever going to be a long term option. And I think more often than not, when this offense struggles under either Daboll or Dorsey it is those evolution points that are struggling that hold us back. I am most of the way through all of our offensive drives from Sunday. From an execution stand point the whole thing was a disaster. There were plays Allen didn't see for sure. This wasn't the Jets game, but he left a good amount of plays out on the field. But there were also some individual gaffes. I mean hell, even Diggs took off well before the ball was snapped. Then a few plays later cut his screen up field inside his blocker into a defender, when he had two blockers on the outside. Just not locked in that drive. On the 5th drive on 3rd and 7 from the NYG 34, the one somebody posted a single still on from the game. If you watch the whole play it looks like Dawkins is going to leverage the defender up and around Josh. But then Josh steps way up into the pocket. This isn't Josh's fault, but it is a good example of WTF is going on out there. Nobody has any idea what the hell anybody else is doing. Some of this is on Dorsey. I won't deny that. I am OK with a new OC. I don't think that guy is Daboll, because I don't see the outcome as wildly different. I have no interest in going back to him. And I have no interest in replacing McDermott with him. Both of which seem to be popular talking points on the board as of the last year or so.

There is so much over simplification of NFL offenses on this board where everything is boiled down to "well Diggs is the first read" or something similar. And while yes, most passing plays will be designed to get your best player open/the ball, everything changes as soon as the QB gets to the line of scrimmage. The read changes based on pre snap coverages, and post snap movement. NFL offenses and defenses are wildly complicated. For all the videos and breakdowns most of us watch on this board this one surprises me. How many live plays or film reviews have we seen where Romo, the Mannings, or Warner go "The play is designed to go to player x. But based on the coverage the QB should know that they are going to take that away, and should be looking to go to player y with the ball". Yes I think we can upgrade some of the skill players, but I also think we need to execute better. There is more production in this group than we are getting. Both things can be true at the same time. We have invested a lot in TE and pass catching RB's since the day McBeane got here. But we never ever get them the ball. This isn't the kind of problem that is answered with a simple "well we need better players". This is an error on both the coaching staff and player execution. I think one hand washes the other here. Also, it is mid-season, there is no "replacing Davis" or "firing Dorsey" that is going to improve week 7. But executing better will.

I hate this thread, and that I am adding to it. Ugh. But this point is a good discussion. I actually think it is the opposite. For years there has been talk of the EP in Buffalo and that week to week it can totally morph into very different offensive philosophies. If anything I think that our ups and downs on a weekly basis the last few years is execution of every changing concepts. I would much prefer the Bills lean into themselves, their players, and their skill sets, and build on that. In regards to the leaning into Diggs. There is so much over simplification of NFL offenses on this board where everything is boiled down to "well Diggs is the first read" or something similar. And while yes, most passing plays will be designed to get your best player open/the ball, everything changes as soon as the QB gets to the line of scrimmage. The read changes based on pre snap coverages, and post snap movement. NFL offenses and defenses are wildly complicated. For all the videos and breakdowns most of us watch on this board this one surprises me. How many live plays or film reviews have we seen where Romo, the Mannings, or Warner go "The play is designed to go to player x. But based on the coverage the DB/LB/Coverage the QB should know that they are going to take that away, and should be looking to go to player y with the ball"

I think there is some frustration around Allen's game from everybody. Not necessarily the staff, but it is fair to say he is a rollercoaster. I don't mean this as a criticism. Allen is a dawg. I love him as our QB. Outside of Mahomes, there isn't another I would take on this team. It just sort of is what it is. I am at a point where I think Allen more or less made Daboll. But because of how high the high's are (MIA) and how low the low's are (NYJ) there is some hesitancy to get away from what we have been good at because of how much the pendulum can swing. And that is how we ended up with Dorsey and why the staff was so hard up on making him the next OC. All of that is to say, I don't really see this offense as wildly different than Daboll. It seems like we have just as many "Fire Dorsey" threads as we did "Fire Daboll" thread. The comments feel nearly identical.

I agree with this. Don't get me wrong, coaches can scream, swear, and have their moments. But those have to only be moments or blips in maybe very extreme circumstances. A once in a blue moon occurrence. It cannot be your personality in 2023. That isn't how teams or professionals work anymore. I know there is a whole faction who think "people are getting soft". But honestly coaches who act like this across the world are getting canned in all sorts of professional/Olympic sports, and every year/quadrennial world records keep getting broken. Athletes are getting better, faster, stronger. Working harder. Participation is increasing. The level it takes to win from HS onwards in just about every sport has never been higher. Professional sports is a high stakes pressure cooker. It should be. But there are coaches out there in 2023 who are getting more out of there athletes without being a total blowhard. It is sort of like Michael Jordan, the better you are the more people are willing to put up with. Jordan is a notorious Richard Noggin. But people put up with it because he is/was the absolute greatest to ever do it. He transcended the league. If you belong in the Hall of Pretty Good you can't act like Jordan.

What? I don’t think it was ever reported that Hughes left because of 13 seconds? I also don’t think McD is upset that the OL has its own coach. He’s been around the sport a long time. This is bonkers.

I think it’s this plus the fact that they don’t like each other (for whatever reasons). Also, it was ice cold. I would expect a similar reaction from Bill Belichick. Imagine the Broncos (of old) came into Gillette and they’re stomping on the LT on the ground, tossing the RT around after the play, and Brady feels the need to come in off the top rope with a steel chair. Bill would have given him a fist bump, mumbled something meaningless platitude about it at the podium, and refuse to address it for eternity. And that’s for a guy he likes.

What? No. If Mahomes doesn’t run nobody is saying it is “killing the KC” offense.

I am directly quoting the poster. If your QB not running is “killing the offense” then the passing game isn’t effective. Theres a reasonable conversation to be had about Josh running more. That’s cool. I don’t disagree. But to say not running is somehow ruining the offense absolutely is an unintentional knock on the QB’s ability to be a passer.

I posted this in the PGT, but works here. I think that is a super dangerous road to go down. If Josh not running has “killed this offense”, then that means Allen’s arm/decision making aren’t good enough, and running the ball is the solution. I love a good mobile QB, but long term success in this league is dictated by being a great passer first, and athlete second. At some point in every mobile QB’s career they either had to figure it out or they flamed out. If Allen is going to do this for a long time at a high level this is something he’ll have to hone in on. I have been critical on some of the decision making. But I don’t think Allen’s arm is killing the offense either, and I don’t think he’ll flame out. I think talking about how Allen “needs his legs” is way more condemning than talking about him being a better decision maker at times.

That is a fair conversation. But it also doesn’t convince me Daboll doesn’t stink as a leader even though he is a good football mind.

I think that is a super dangerous road to go down. If Josh not running has “killed this offense”, then that means Allen’s arm/decision making aren’t good enough, and running the ball is the solution. I love a good mobile QB, but long term success in this league is dictated by being a great passer first, and athlete second. At some point in every mobile QB’s career they either had to figure it out or they flamed out. If Allen is going to do this for a long time at a high level this is something he’ll have to hone in on. I have been critical on some of the decision making. But I don’t think Allen’s arm is killing the offense either. I don’t think he’ll flame out. I think talking about how Allen “needs his legs” is way more condemning than talking about him being a better decision maker at times.

Daboll stinks. This offense has very similar deficiencies under Dorsey as it did Daboll. We just aren’t truck linebackers so it has a less exciting vibe with nearly identical output. I think Daboll is a really good football guy, great guy to have on staff. But can’t be fully in charge of a unit or a team (yet?). Every unit he’s managed outside of Josh has sucked. But I also think he’s a pretty smart dude. There is a lot that goes into being in charge of a whole team and/or unit other than being smart.

My take is we don’t see it because we don’t execute it.

Yes, a game. My point is that it’s not a good week in and week out philosophy. Diggs already pushed some history in single season target numbers last year. Feeding one guy all the balls all the time isn’t a good offensive plan. Worth noting that Tyreek only had 58 catches over 12 games in 2019. Which extrapolates to 77 catches over a 16 week season. The Chiefs offense didn’t revolve around getting Tyreek the ball on 51% of pass plays the way it seems like the Bills offense does at times.

Good for her I guess. So she’s basically at every game? I assume she was basically here all week. London, Sabres game, Giants. Kinda cool this celebrity has more or less been living in Buffalo the last month.

Then Tirico was wrong. I just checked the play by play.

Rodgers and Stanford have struggled to win championships with this style of decision making. Some of the blame is on pass catcher and coaches. Absolutely. Between these two really talented QB’s who have nearly 40 years of NFL football and only 2 SB’s. We need better pass catchers. We also need better coaching. But only throwing the ball to one guy doesn’t set your team up for success either. That might have been catches? I believe Diggs was targeted 12 or 13 times in the first half. And only had 3-4 targets the second half. He ended the day 10/16.

I didn’t know that. But she was also at Sabres Hopener! In terms of playing quality sports, Buffalo teams are 1-4 with her in attendance.

So I don’t want to worry anybody but…. I believe Hailee Steinfeld has been in attendance for @Jets, Jags, and now Giants. It’s unfortunate for her, but if this continues she may get the Romo/Jessica Simpson treatment of being known as a jinx.

That was my thought watching it live. I don’t think we ever got a good replay. Just commercial break then a ruling.

This also happened under Daboll.

At the risk of getting flamed, you cannot win championships targeting one receiver 16 times per game. And it doesn’t matter what the rest of the WR Corp looks like. I don’t care. I would much rather try and have WR’s fail than have offenses run the way they did last night and @Jets. Aaron Rodgers is wildly talented and is very open about if you drop the ball he won’t throw it to you. Some of the problem is the WR of course, but QB’s with that mentality also hold their teams back and force them into being one dimensional. That said, I don’t think it’s a trust issue for Josh. I think Allen legit just wants to throw the ball to Diggs. I’m willing to be they thought they were gonna pop off and put up Madden numbers. They didn’t but they felt like they should so kept trying it.

I watched in a bar, which I HATE doing. But I am very curious to rewatch the network and A-22. There were some drops, but I cannot imagine the game plan was designed to throw 16/30 balls to Diggs. And that on over half of the pass plays there was nobody else. My knee jerk is that Allen/Diggs came into this one planning on putting up Madden numbers.