Mango

This is fair. But I also don’t think Dorsey is bad enough that he’s “ruining Josh” or the offense. There’s a couple play concepts I don’t like. He’s had some moments where play calls are a bit head scratching. But he drew up and called some good games against the Jets, Raiders, Dolphins, and Pats. We’ve been hampered by execution errors. Some of that is definitely on him. But there’s some individual responsibility as well. We can also upgrade. I think the Bills are a little too far along to manage Dorsey’s growing pains. I think he’ll be a good coordinator down the line.

I think he can get better at some of itZ. Josh is a good QB. Sometimes it’s not so much that he doesn’t see it. He’s just trying to do too much. He just makes all these risky decisions, and when he gets into a bad groove where they aren’t working out so he presses harder. Sometimes it he doesn’t even see a guy, but there’s also a lot of “hold my beer, watch this” moments as well. Where he just says fork it. He should be able to make those moments go away.

I don’t think Josh has ever had elite vision. I have been watching his A-22 for years saying even when he’s competing wow passes there are much more efficient decisions on the field. I think he has always been late to throw. When he misses, he misses behind pretty often. His fast ball bails him out of a lot of issues. He has made a career out of pulling the trigger on things because he can, not because he should. Inevitably it will lead to some bad tendencies and a bit of over confidence in things he shouldn’t. Unlike every other position group, the QB hs to constantly evolve to stay ahead of defenses. Josh is working through some things that he’s tried to brute force his way through for a while. He’s going to have to figure out how to operate within his self no matter who the OC is. It is worth noting that Josh is working through his 3rd injury to his throwing arm in 3 years. The day where Josh needs to be more efficient and less of a hoss is probably coming sooner than we’d hope for.

If we thought the 17 year drought for the Bills was bad, just wait to see what Pegula can do with the Bills. The Sabres own the longest playoff drought in NHL history at 12 years. A league where over half of the league used to make the playoffs every year. The next longest drought is nearly half of that, 7 years. They’ve been the worst owners in NHL history. Their run with the Sabres is among the worst in all of sports. Asking Terry to clean house entirely could kickstart a 25 to 30 year drought for the Bills. That’s a little bit of hyperbole, but not the exaggeration I wish it was. So here is the plan. Get rid of the bad ones. Then get the good ones. Draft good players and improve the weaknesses. And voila!

I don’t think McBeane or Pegula are mid season fire kind of guys. I think this is a good thing.

Possible. But I’m not ready to go down that road yet. I think we’ll sort things out on the offensive side of the ball.

The Knox drop on 4th was a killer too. I am critical of Allen at times but there is a ton going on at the moment. When it comes to mid season complaints, better QB play is the quick fix for a lot of (most?) things for most teams. It’s tough because he has these moments and games Miami or the Raiders. But also the Jets. The delta between his highs and lows is remarkable. It’s easy to go “well he should stop being this version, and he should just be that other better version”. We need upgrades at OT, WR, and execution. If we could throw out the plays that have 3 WR in a 5 yard radius that would be cool too.

I gave a reasonably soft yet direct response without a whole lot of emotion or a at name calling. Again. Stop trying to delegitimize the posters here and have conversations about the topics at hand. So far we’ve talked no football but you’ve mentioned that: - people who have less than 1000 posts and have an unpopular opinion are trolls. - people who talk negatively about Josh are holding a 6 year grudge. - pointing any of this out is overly emotional (“hit a nerve”) Can we please stop putting down posters and start having legitimate conversations about the play and personnel of this football team. Sheesh.

Troll seems to be a popular way for people to discredit anybodies opinion they don’t like without any dialogue. Less than 1000 posts? I had less than 1000 at one point. Everybody did. If you posted once per day it would take nearly 3 years to get out of troll status. That’s a really unfair standard to hold posters to. There has been a lot of new posters in who have provided some pretty solid feedback. I’m not holding any grudge. I like Josh. I want him to be better in a few areas. And yes those are things people told me. WTF do you want. You aren’t even having conversations on this board. Unpopular opinions are trolls. And if they aren’t trolls they’re holding a 6 year grudge over the wrong Josh. There’s no good faith back and forth on your part. You aren’t the gatekeeper of legitimacy. This drives me bonkers.

I think Benford and Jackson are just as good or better. CB trade isn’t even on my radar. Safety falls somewhere between meh and maybe? But adding another guy that’s about the same player as the guys we already have in house just doesn’t feel like something we need to move assets for.

This is a fair take and I agree, in past season Josh would have turned these games into the Jets game. He’s not terrible. He’s really good. There’s sometimes an ebb and flow to QB’s in the NFL. Unlike other positions groups, the QB has to constant evolve. Right now we’re going through somethings Josh has been stagnant on and other teams are taking advantage. Add on some issues at WR, OL and general focus, and here we are. We just have to get hot at the right time. The perceived rate of “trolls” on this board are way higher than it is in reality. I also don’t think there’s (many?) any 6 year grudges on the board because we “picked the wrong Josh”.

The defense is what it is at the moment. They looked good this year until they caught the injury bug (again). The offense will have to carry the load. All the defense has to not be a disaster and get the occasional timely turn over here and there.

They don’t make up my top 4 positional needs. CB and Safety are actually a good distance back from DT, LB, OT, and WR. If the level of skill for available players is the same I’m going those 4 positions, some of them even twice, before I take a DB.

Von is a HoF player coming off of a second ACL surgery at 34. His career is likely over. Shill? I don’t know what I am a shill for. This topic is about the team having a players meeting. Von has some value in that setting. His contract sucks, but there is a space for him in this scenario to provide value. I don’t know why you feel the need to be so aggressive and disrespectful. You’re carrying on a conversation that actually isn’t the topic at hand.

Josh had his most rushing attempts with his second best YPC last year. He was plenty athletic last year. Whatever is going on right now is a new problem for everybody. When we say “it’s been worse since Dorsey took over…” you have to toss out a year of him as OC (2022) where it wasn’t worse, and wasn’t less athletic and all 3 years as Josh’s QB coach. It seems like a reach to say that one day Dorsey woke and and said “let’s do a 180 on absolutely everything we’ve been working on for the last 4 years”. It feels like the easy answer here is that our QB who has been inconsistent since we drafted him has been…inconsistent. I don’t love all of Dorsey’s play designs. I also don’t like all his play calls. But this idea that there has been drastic shift in what Josh is and is not allowed to do seems far out there. Allen has had 2 great games. A mediocre game or two, and two clunkers. The offense needs to evolve. That includes Josh.

Josh has done this for a good portion of his career. He’s generally bailed himself out of it with his athleticism and/or by throwing fast balls. Josh is very good. He can be better too. But he isn’t THE problem. There are a lot of things going on right now. But like everything else in the NFL, most things are covered up by better QB play. Mid season it’s maybe the only plausible solution. There isn’t another OC. We can’t go back and re-write contacts, or re-do FA/the draft.

DT, LB, OT, and WR. I am struggling with the depth chart on this one.

Sure. Why not? Let’s pretend Von is on PUP this week. Feel better now? What a very weird thing to be focused on in this conversation.

Sack numbers don’t equal leadership and experience. Von’s contract aside he’s a valuable voice in the locker room. I can’t believe people think total tackles from a HoF coming off of IR should have any impact on whether he talks to guys about staying locked in.

It gets worse. He has two of them.

Bad take. Von is a slam dunk, guaranteed first ballot HOF’er with two Super Bowl rings. If he has any value to this team post ACL injury this is it. Getting lots of sacks and rushing for lots of yards don’t make somebody a leader. No different than at work where being a good salesman doesn’t make you a good manager.

Not to split hairs but Knox’s cap hit this year is likely fair value. $6.4M. He gets heavy starting next year at $14.4M. We’ve pushed a few contracts too far down the road. In 2024 Von $23.8M, Dawkins is $15M, Diggs $28M. Allen $47M, White $16M, , Morse $11M. It’s not a huge deal when guys are part of a long term plan. Allen will get restructured and extended. Taron Johnson has a $12M hit next year, we’ll likely see something similar with him. But it gets tough when guys aren’t part of long term plans or have a severe decline due to age or injury. Dawkins, Von, and Knox are tough in 2024. I have some emotion around White. I feel bad for the guy. But $16M is tough too. Diggs is a weird. I don’t know if I would extend or restructure him right now. I think we are locked into $20m+ until 2028. We could cut or trade him in 2026 but that would still cost us $13M. As of now I don’t want to trade him. But I guess that could change in 3-4 years?

A lot of talk about Josh’s game changing a ton in year 2 under Dorsey. Dorsey deserves some blame here. Mostly around play calling and play design. But one thing I’m slow to come around on is Dorsey being responsible for a change in Allen’s tendencies in year 2 as OC. KD was Josh’s QB coach for 3 years, helping Josh to know when to throw and when to run. Last year Allen ran more in 16 games than any season in his career. And now suddenly in year 5 with Allen, Dorsey has gone “remember everything we talked about the last 4-5 years. Screw it. Only stay behind the line of scrimmage.” It doesn’t add up to me.

Cool, let’s have a reasonable conversation with Josh Allen’s decision making. That seems to be a problem with him this year in both the pass and run game. It’s a problem he’s had throughout his career.

Right, sometimes bad decisions are part of the Josh Allen ride. Chucking it down field when there are better options, run or pass, has always been apart of Josh’s game. Allen ran the ball more in 16 games last year than he did in 17 any other year. Dorsey has been Allen’s coach since the 2019 season. He has coached Josh’s run game for basically his entire career. All of those things combined are going to make me very slow to be convinced that Ken Dorsey woke up one day and was like “you know what Josh, do the exact opposite thing we’ve been talking about since 2019”. People act like Dorsey hasn’t been influencing Allen’s game his entire career as his QB coach, and he’s just some dude who came off the street and entered Josh’s life out of nowhere.