Mango

I listened to McD today. He addressed some of this and I agreed. The offense needs to execute. It starts there. You nailed it, just these wild lapses from all of them. And when they lack that focus and execution they can’t get into a rhythm. When they can’t get into a rhythm they fail. He also talked a bit about identifying what our weapons are good at, and putting them in positions to be successful. I thought it was a pretty fair inventory of the situation: More focus and better execution. That includes our stars. Better utilization of skill sets. Improve play calling and have an offensive identity.

I’m fairly certain he’s loaded up with HGH. What’s the rules regarding drug tests and injuries? Manning avoided a positive test while his wife was ordering it for her “skin care routine” or whatever. EDIT: I’m fairly certain that at this point in his career Aaron would play chicken with the league to suspend him for loading up on HGH. Then gaslight the entire world and say “the world is just so against alternative medicines that it’s a league conspiracy to keep him quiet. They said it couldn’t be done, but he showed us by having Orca sploodge shakes every morning.

I didn't collect any data on yards per route, but after watching the A22 that was not the case. There were plays to be made to Knox that weren't seen. He was in to chip/block quite a bit, don't get me wrong, but definitely ran some routes with depth. That INT on 1/10 is a good example. But that ball never should have been thrown there with Murray wide open underneath.

I watched the game out at a bar, which I hate. So I was really looking forward to sitting down with this one. It was very odd. This wasn't as "easy" to watch as the Jets game where so much of it was like "OK Josh calm down". There were moments where Josh is looking right at an open Murray on first and 10. Then just tries to split three defenders to Knox where it gets tipped and picked. What a dumb decision. But then there are other moments where Diggs is just sprinting from the LOS, or not following his blockers. Or Josh is scrambling and I am was begging a wide open Sherfield to turn around to help him out. Brutal. This offense has never ever looked easy. At least not for stretches. Yes there are games where they are prolific, but so often it just feels like we get by converting 3rds and forever over and over again. We convert them more often than most teams and that is a crazy advantage. But you can't convert them all the time. Low percentage plays are still low percentage even if you are good at them. A lot of missed opportunities out there to make that game easier. That goes for the QB, WR, and OL.

I do and watched all the offensive snaps today. The whole passing game was a mixed bag. It was odd. The best way to describe it was unfocused and unsettled. There were: - Bad decisions and open receivers at times from the QB. - Missed blocks from the OL - Diggs had a couple mental mistakes with his Offside and poor decision on a screen - WR didn't help Allen out on a couple of scrambles. There were some positives from the OL in run blocking when we ran the ball from under center.

Thank you for this. Always appreciated. I just watched the A-22 today and have some scribbles I was going to post on the PG Thread and never got around to. I think your summary is pretty accurate. The Dawkins play in Q2 feels like a good synopsis for our entire passing game on Sunday. Dawkins gets beat, so lets get that out of the way. There is no debating that. But to me today it looks like Dawkins is committed to leverage Thibodeaux up and around Allen. But Allen takes a big step up, and Thibodeaux easily disengages. Dawkins certainly gets beat there, but part of the problem is the LT and QB don't have a good feel for what the other is going to do either. I thought the first two drives had some "unfortunate moments" but those moments started to pile on around the 3rd or 4th drives. Just mental gaffes everywhere. I think they started to pile on top of each other right around the 3rd or 4th drive. If it wasn't Josh it was a lineman. If it wasn't a lineman it was a WR. Even Diggs got in on it with that crazy unfocused Offside. Then a play or two later went to him on a screen, where he had another blocker engaged outside of Shakir(?) and he cut inside right and go nothing on it. Worth noting that Josh was better in the second half but we only had three possessions compared to 6 in the first. I really think these guys thought they were gonna go off and have a crazy Madden on rookie type of performance, and when it wasn't happening started gripping way too tight, got super sloppy, and started playing as individuals rather than a unit. These types of games drive me nuts.

For all the negativity around here right now. This is actually a very very good point. Also I think this stat is hilarious.

Didn't he run like a 4.4 something at 48 years old. Lets go!

In terms of "wildly different". Most of the criticism around Daboll was play call, play design, situational awareness from players and play calls, getting the TE, RB's, and other WR's involved. What about the running game? Holistically the complaints about what this offensive frustrations are are pretty identical even if some of the "aspects" are different. I do think there are some differences of course. We do a lot more under center this year. A bit more play action. We are more committed to the run. Daboll did a lot of things somethings better or different that helped Josh, we got him moving, used his legs (albeit recklessly at times), a lot of curl routes to help with timing/stationary targets. I think Allen and the offense needs (needed?) to evolve for this to work year in and year out. The Daboll method of toss it 100 times, screw how many turnovers we have, and forget the run game/running backs was never ever going to be a long term option. And I think more often than not, when this offense struggles under either Daboll or Dorsey it is those evolution points that are struggling that hold us back. I am most of the way through all of our offensive drives from Sunday. From an execution stand point the whole thing was a disaster. There were plays Allen didn't see for sure. This wasn't the Jets game, but he left a good amount of plays out on the field. But there were also some individual gaffes. I mean hell, even Diggs took off well before the ball was snapped. Then a few plays later cut his screen up field inside his blocker into a defender, when he had two blockers on the outside. Just not locked in that drive. On the 5th drive on 3rd and 7 from the NYG 34, the one somebody posted a single still on from the game. If you watch the whole play it looks like Dawkins is going to leverage the defender up and around Josh. But then Josh steps way up into the pocket. This isn't Josh's fault, but it is a good example of WTF is going on out there. Nobody has any idea what the hell anybody else is doing. Some of this is on Dorsey. I won't deny that. I am OK with a new OC. I don't think that guy is Daboll, because I don't see the outcome as wildly different. I have no interest in going back to him. And I have no interest in replacing McDermott with him. Both of which seem to be popular talking points on the board as of the last year or so.

There is so much over simplification of NFL offenses on this board where everything is boiled down to "well Diggs is the first read" or something similar. And while yes, most passing plays will be designed to get your best player open/the ball, everything changes as soon as the QB gets to the line of scrimmage. The read changes based on pre snap coverages, and post snap movement. NFL offenses and defenses are wildly complicated. For all the videos and breakdowns most of us watch on this board this one surprises me. How many live plays or film reviews have we seen where Romo, the Mannings, or Warner go "The play is designed to go to player x. But based on the coverage the QB should know that they are going to take that away, and should be looking to go to player y with the ball". Yes I think we can upgrade some of the skill players, but I also think we need to execute better. There is more production in this group than we are getting. Both things can be true at the same time. We have invested a lot in TE and pass catching RB's since the day McBeane got here. But we never ever get them the ball. This isn't the kind of problem that is answered with a simple "well we need better players". This is an error on both the coaching staff and player execution. I think one hand washes the other here. Also, it is mid-season, there is no "replacing Davis" or "firing Dorsey" that is going to improve week 7. But executing better will.

I hate this thread, and that I am adding to it. Ugh. But this point is a good discussion. I actually think it is the opposite. For years there has been talk of the EP in Buffalo and that week to week it can totally morph into very different offensive philosophies. If anything I think that our ups and downs on a weekly basis the last few years is execution of every changing concepts. I would much prefer the Bills lean into themselves, their players, and their skill sets, and build on that. In regards to the leaning into Diggs. There is so much over simplification of NFL offenses on this board where everything is boiled down to "well Diggs is the first read" or something similar. And while yes, most passing plays will be designed to get your best player open/the ball, everything changes as soon as the QB gets to the line of scrimmage. The read changes based on pre snap coverages, and post snap movement. NFL offenses and defenses are wildly complicated. For all the videos and breakdowns most of us watch on this board this one surprises me. How many live plays or film reviews have we seen where Romo, the Mannings, or Warner go "The play is designed to go to player x. But based on the coverage the DB/LB/Coverage the QB should know that they are going to take that away, and should be looking to go to player y with the ball"

I think there is some frustration around Allen's game from everybody. Not necessarily the staff, but it is fair to say he is a rollercoaster. I don't mean this as a criticism. Allen is a dawg. I love him as our QB. Outside of Mahomes, there isn't another I would take on this team. It just sort of is what it is. I am at a point where I think Allen more or less made Daboll. But because of how high the high's are (MIA) and how low the low's are (NYJ) there is some hesitancy to get away from what we have been good at because of how much the pendulum can swing. And that is how we ended up with Dorsey and why the staff was so hard up on making him the next OC. All of that is to say, I don't really see this offense as wildly different than Daboll. It seems like we have just as many "Fire Dorsey" threads as we did "Fire Daboll" thread. The comments feel nearly identical.

I agree with this. Don't get me wrong, coaches can scream, swear, and have their moments. But those have to only be moments or blips in maybe very extreme circumstances. A once in a blue moon occurrence. It cannot be your personality in 2023. That isn't how teams or professionals work anymore. I know there is a whole faction who think "people are getting soft". But honestly coaches who act like this across the world are getting canned in all sorts of professional/Olympic sports, and every year/quadrennial world records keep getting broken. Athletes are getting better, faster, stronger. Working harder. Participation is increasing. The level it takes to win from HS onwards in just about every sport has never been higher. Professional sports is a high stakes pressure cooker. It should be. But there are coaches out there in 2023 who are getting more out of there athletes without being a total blowhard. It is sort of like Michael Jordan, the better you are the more people are willing to put up with. Jordan is a notorious Richard Noggin. But people put up with it because he is/was the absolute greatest to ever do it. He transcended the league. If you belong in the Hall of Pretty Good you can't act like Jordan.

What? I don’t think it was ever reported that Hughes left because of 13 seconds? I also don’t think McD is upset that the OL has its own coach. He’s been around the sport a long time. This is bonkers.

I think it’s this plus the fact that they don’t like each other (for whatever reasons). Also, it was ice cold. I would expect a similar reaction from Bill Belichick. Imagine the Broncos (of old) came into Gillette and they’re stomping on the LT on the ground, tossing the RT around after the play, and Brady feels the need to come in off the top rope with a steel chair. Bill would have given him a fist bump, mumbled something meaningless platitude about it at the podium, and refuse to address it for eternity. And that’s for a guy he likes.

What? No. If Mahomes doesn’t run nobody is saying it is “killing the KC” offense.

I am directly quoting the poster. If your QB not running is “killing the offense” then the passing game isn’t effective. Theres a reasonable conversation to be had about Josh running more. That’s cool. I don’t disagree. But to say not running is somehow ruining the offense absolutely is an unintentional knock on the QB’s ability to be a passer.

I posted this in the PGT, but works here. I think that is a super dangerous road to go down. If Josh not running has “killed this offense”, then that means Allen’s arm/decision making aren’t good enough, and running the ball is the solution. I love a good mobile QB, but long term success in this league is dictated by being a great passer first, and athlete second. At some point in every mobile QB’s career they either had to figure it out or they flamed out. If Allen is going to do this for a long time at a high level this is something he’ll have to hone in on. I have been critical on some of the decision making. But I don’t think Allen’s arm is killing the offense either, and I don’t think he’ll flame out. I think talking about how Allen “needs his legs” is way more condemning than talking about him being a better decision maker at times.

That is a fair conversation. But it also doesn’t convince me Daboll doesn’t stink as a leader even though he is a good football mind.

I think that is a super dangerous road to go down. If Josh not running has “killed this offense”, then that means Allen’s arm/decision making aren’t good enough, and running the ball is the solution. I love a good mobile QB, but long term success in this league is dictated by being a great passer first, and athlete second. At some point in every mobile QB’s career they either had to figure it out or they flamed out. If Allen is going to do this for a long time at a high level this is something he’ll have to hone in on. I have been critical on some of the decision making. But I don’t think Allen’s arm is killing the offense either. I don’t think he’ll flame out. I think talking about how Allen “needs his legs” is way more condemning than talking about him being a better decision maker at times.

Daboll stinks. This offense has very similar deficiencies under Dorsey as it did Daboll. We just aren’t truck linebackers so it has a less exciting vibe with nearly identical output. I think Daboll is a really good football guy, great guy to have on staff. But can’t be fully in charge of a unit or a team (yet?). Every unit he’s managed outside of Josh has sucked. But I also think he’s a pretty smart dude. There is a lot that goes into being in charge of a whole team and/or unit other than being smart.

My take is we don’t see it because we don’t execute it.

Yes, a game. My point is that it’s not a good week in and week out philosophy. Diggs already pushed some history in single season target numbers last year. Feeding one guy all the balls all the time isn’t a good offensive plan. Worth noting that Tyreek only had 58 catches over 12 games in 2019. Which extrapolates to 77 catches over a 16 week season. The Chiefs offense didn’t revolve around getting Tyreek the ball on 51% of pass plays the way it seems like the Bills offense does at times.

Good for her I guess. So she’s basically at every game? I assume she was basically here all week. London, Sabres game, Giants. Kinda cool this celebrity has more or less been living in Buffalo the last month.

Then Tirico was wrong. I just checked the play by play.