Mango

Things are gonna get ugly. This thing is about to get blown up. It might not be the worst thing long term. Commit to surrounding Josh with some new and young weapons in the draft. Rebuild this thing from Josh on out.

I don’t think that’s what he’s saying here at all. He makes two different points. 1. He hates when teams put a QB in shotgun on 3rd/4th and short. Especially with having a QB run built into the play. Yes he’s complaining about Dorsey, but he’s complains about it across the league as well 2. “Why put a guy if you’re not going to use the information. Kincaid is your zone route and Josh is looking at the other side of the field”. This is his fundamental issue with the play. That we motioned, got a read on the defense, and didn’t even look at the proper receiver based on the information provided. So at that point he says “why put him in motion over and over again”. It’s not questioning the act of motioning Kincaid. He’s questioning why didn’t the QB use the formation it gave him. I think the shotgun thing is just a pet peeve of his he can’t help himself but to comment on. The criticism of the play is that the QB didn’t even look that way when he proactively put a guy in motion and got the information that said “throw to Kincaid”.

You gotta have the route in the playbook and Josh likes to make that throw as we see every week. I think defenses know he likes the throw and they wait for it. As much as we’ve gotten wrong the. Last few years, we’ve had some stretches where everything has gone right. This may be the university equalling itself out a bit.

Other QB’s have these games. I think that’s a bit of a reach that they don’t. I get it. The way we lost this one feels so brutal. Josh just has too many turnover though. Both the hand off and the INT was on him. The Allen roller coaster as too many ups and downs. Our QB has a decision making problem. But I’d rather have this than Pennington. A few quotes from Aikman and the Manningcast. - “That interception was on Josh. I know it Josh knows it. Every QB in the NFL knows it” - Troy Aikman -If you have to throw it that hard it makes you wonder if you should throw it at all” -Peyton Manning -“I’m a guy whose thrown a lot of interceptions, but that’s too many”- Peyton Manning -“He really didn’t want to throw the ball away there.” *awkward mumbling and grumbling about needing to know when to make a play and throw it away* -“Josh Allen should take the his entire defense out to a Buffalo Wing dinner for keeping him in this game. He is lucky it isn’t 35-15.”- Peyton Manning -“They’re giving him everything underneath. Take the check downs. Does he know he can have a 10-11 play drive. You’re allowed to have 10 play drive” - Eli Manning As the game went on there was a lot of talk about decision making from the QB. It started as “well he’s Josh he can make up for it” and the game more or less ended with “you can’t keep doing this to your team” Then obviously the infamous Brady/Allen exchange about checking it down. But it’s not really about checking it down, it’s understanding where you are in the game and making the right decision at the right time. https://twitter.com/siriusxmnfl/status/1720067066814685552?s=46&t=jFTEZzM9QlUz_auGjxtkuA

What are you talking about. The 2 minute warning passed before the TD after the run in first down. The TD happened at 1:55. If Allen were to go down at 2 or whatever Denver would have been forced to either burn a TO or the Bills would have worked the clock down another 30 seconds. Peyton Manning literally suggested it live. I don’t even agree with the idea from Manning. You take the points where you can get them. But that scenario was an option even if it was a bad one. It isn’t a made up one like you keep saying. I don’t even agree with the idea. You take the points where you can get them. There is no L to be taken by anybody because you stink at using words Not real doesn’t mean disagree.

Just a fun reminder that we don’t have a 3rd this year.

You should maybe work on phrasing if you think “not true” and “disagreeing” are the same thing/interchangeable. They’re not. Like at all…

You’re a dumb superstition.

Your words were “it’s just something you imagined would be better” I rebutted with it’s not made up, a pretty notable HOF QB mentioned it in real time. And you are saying “no it is because it’s a bad idea”. I’m not even arguing whether it’s a good idea or bad. In fact in my original post you quoted I said “I prefer to take the points when they’re available”. I also said “Pundits with real liked NFL experiences aren’t infallible”. But here we are talking about things being made up still….

Peyton Manning said something similar live. Like right when it happened he said “he shouldn’t have scored. He should have gone down in bounds”. You also conveniently left out the part where I said “force Denver to use one of their time outs.” It’s not just the 30 seconds off the clock, it’s them burning a time out. I get it, nobody is right all the time. I disagree with all sorts of pundits with real life NFL experience. But when a top 5 QB of all time says in real time, “should have gone down and forced Denver to burn a TO”, it’s certainly not made up.

A bunch of us saw this coming. We seem to forget EA sports is the one doing this to us. Allen didn’t have to be on the cover, but he did it, and now everything is ruined. We just have to hunker down and get through. We will be OK.

In his defense Peyton said the same thing. Cook was moving the ball. We had production from Murray. Go down at the one in bounds and trust your guys. Force Denver to use some time outs. I subscribe to the “score when you can”. But I get it.

I am not convinced everything falls on Dorsey. I’d make Babich interim DC. And I think I’d make Dorsey interim HC. Let’s sniff this thing out before the offseason and get some better data. How much blame does where? Judging Dorsey without McD helps eliminate a lot of variables in player evaluations. I think Dorsey wants to run a high flying offense. I have zero sources to back that up, but it’s what my gut says.

To his credit, the D has done enough in a few of the loses. He himself needs to “trust the process”. Firings only mean this thing gets torn apart mid season only to try and be jump started again next year. I will say the same defensive call in a row plus the 12 men, all in succession, is the first time I was like “OK tear it down”. So much so I’d be open to firing McD and giving Dorsey a go as interim. Let’s not forget that a few weeks ago McD said he’d be MORE involved with the offense and they’ve done nothing but grip tighter. KD was part of some offensive outputs. I’m not advocating for it, but if it happened I could get myself up for it.

I think this is spot on. Good post. This is likely the only way we salvage the season.

I get One Bills Live is home team news news but Steve Tasker saying “the players couldn’t have betrayed Ken Dorsey more”. Is about as damning as it gets. Sheesh. That burns.

I wish Pegula was a capable professional sports franchise owner. If he could do that the Bills nor the Sabres would be in this position.

I am not sure it matters who the receiver is. The second INT was on Josh. Aikman said “every QB knows it”. Both Manning’s said the similar. You don’t throw that ball.

I’ve defended McD to an extent. Maybe replace Dorsey. Maybe make him get a DC. Maybe we stop giving the ball away like it’s in style. But we called the defense 2 plays in a row down the stretch. The Manning’s didn’t like that one bit. Then to lose with 12 men….. This sounds crazy, but all the above rolls up not down. I’d be open to a HC fire mid season, even if it meant giving Dorsey control as interim HC. I’m suddenly very curious how many of stalling offense rolls up to the HC not the OC.

I had a list of things to talk about. Things I saw. Things friends at the game texted me they saw. Comments from Manning and Aikman. But our coaching left 12 guys on the field in a run off moment with plenty of time to adjust. Jesus Christ. We’ve been turn over machines for 5-6 years now. But Jesus. To lose on 12 guys on the field.

What a very strange sentence and odd gripe about an NFL football team. I can get behind the premise that the team isn't having very much fun, but I am not sure WR's throwing passes and QB's/OL catching them are a meaningful way to convey they. Also nobody is having fun in jersey because they stink and Daboll is an absolute blowhard. I wish we would stop looking backwards all the time. That said, I think the general morale puts us on a crash course for a reset next year.

Zach Wilson stinks, so lets start there. But Saleh has been/encouraged kicking Wilson in the nuts all the time. I do think Wilson has shown enough that I wouldn't be furious if he joined the Bills as a back up and tried to get right. He has shown some ability.

Thanks for the reading recommendation. I will for sure look into it! I understand the basics. That was a loose use of the word autonomy. Apologies. But I digress. Your eye seems much better than mine. Do you think this offense is getting lost in the amount of variables per play we seem to have compared to past seasons?

Great breakdown, thank you! Question for somebody who seems much smarter than me. A buddy of mine texted me today that Fournette said this was the most complicated passing offense he had ever seen. Assuming that is true, by your eye does it this offense seem overly complicated or that players (OL, WR, QB) are struggling to understand their responsibilities? By my eye it looks like the WR's in this offense have lot of autonomy (responsibility?) to run their routes based on their coverages and this is where some of the miscues between WR and QB seem to be happening. It isn't just the option route stuff like we saw with Davis. But it seems like depth and direction of route is a struggle too. I am kinda-sorta hoping this is the case, because it seems like such an easy fix. It is at least better than entire offensive concept being flawed, or having to limp through until the draft/FA.

Somebody texted me today that Fournette said he had never seen an offense as complicated as the Bills and it would take him a few weeks to get up to speed. I tried googling it, but I can't find it anywhere. (if somebody could find it that would be huge) Treating it as true for now. this is likely where the problem with the offense lies. I am guessing that maybe the play book has expanded quite a bit this year, especially as the season progresses, which is why things seem much less smooth. It makes sense why we are seeing execution errors around a handful of position groups. Guys are just overwhelmed. Dorsey is over complicating some things. Josh isn't understanding some things. Turns out we can all stop arguing about the problem, because just about everything turns out to be true. On the bright side an overcomplicated offense sounds like about the easiest mid-season fix possible. Tear some pages out of the playbook, keep it simple, and hopefully we find some mojo again.