Mango

The guy ran 7 times yesterday for 2 yards and change. I don’t think he’s neutered. I think he’s been asked for years to protect himself and/or the ball which is reasonable. They want Josh running and protecting himself like Mahomes, peak Russ, or even Lamar (sans explosiveness) Asking Josh to not hurdle a 250 lbs DB, or lower his shoulder and take on a LB shouldn’t be this difficult. It’s a reasonable request. The crazy part to me is that Josh actually has no feel for how to do this. Like it’s not a crazy ask. It doesn’t really change his game. Kinda like that BS hook and ladder at the end of the game. I would be shocked if that was the play that was drawn up. I’m guessing Josh didn’t see anything, the pocket was collapsing, and he bailed. It was just a super awkward attempt, right up there with that playoff lateral vs Houston.

It’s not nonsense. This happens in all sorts of sports all the time. Teams whose legitimate expectations are to win a Super Bowl, who get close over and over again without winning, often burn hot, flame out, and staffs get replaced. When the margin for error for teams is win the Super Bowl or you fail, and you are constantly operating in a space where you’re always falling short. Teams rack up years of negative credit while being very good; but the “bad credit” adds up and things fall apart. This is one of the most impressive parts of guys like Harbaugh and Carroll. It’s really hard to be very good for a long time without burnout. You rarely see it elsewhere because athletes graduate and rotate out. But it’s real.

Cook looked like the receiving back we were told he was when we drafted him. This is where I get a little wonky on Dorsey. This year the plays are there. THEY’RE THERE. And we force feed Diggs anyways. We have see this team when it gets the balls to those guys like the Raider and Dolphins game. When we force the ball to Diggs like the Jets, Giants, Pats, the whole thing falls apart. Diggs as your primary, Davis for big chunk plays, Kincaid and Cook should be a mismatch underneath. Yesterday didn’t feel like a loss due to play call on the offensive side. It’s just a million drops, Offside, and penalties. Which normally I’d point towards coaching. But it’s odd it’s happening with guys who’ve been in the building forever.

So the frustrating part about that is given our cap situation and number of FA’s I have expected next year is a step back. We have kicked the can down the road on a lot of contracts and most are coming due in 24. Allen’s and Diggs have been super cheap but not after this season. Same with Knox, Taron, and Dawkins. Plus we have a lot of money tied up in Miller, Tre, and Morse who are all aging/injured.

Josh is really good. Bit let’s calm the HOF talk. If his career ended today he wouldn’t get in. Maybe if he won a championship. He needs more longevity and volume.

I said it early this year, I don’t think Josh is locked in. Not that he’s a “life after football, get a Hollywood GF” kinda guy. His moxie has always been this natural sorta frat boy aura. Josh Allen’s entire personality is the guy who gets drunk and talks about how he’s the best athlete on the planet. Which is fine. There’s a lot of that. Dorsey needs improving/replacement. Go ahead and fire McD too. But for me, when I saw Diggs jump off sides out of nowhere, where even he wasn’t locked in, I thought “this is more than a coaching issues. The leaders aren’t present” Maybe a coaching change helps. Maybe it doesn’t. But long term these guys in the locker room need to get their head right or the whole thing will fall apart no matter who is at the helm.

McD is a good coach. Let’s start there. One of the hardest things to do in pro sports is get really close to winning a championship multiple times, lose, and keep the team. Teams just burn to hit, the margin for error is zero, and if you don’t win, everything is seen as a mistake. These things happen and are part of the coach/team lifecycle sometimes. Only posting this because a lot of the comments in this thread seem weirdly personal and aggressive towards McD.

ahhh shirt. That was supposed to be disagree. I don’t disagree. Sorry I watched the Sabres. Depression is setting in.

I don’t disagree. Part of point is me yelling at the collective clouds who keep trying to sing a $15-20M receiver to line up next to Diggs. When you pay your guys, you have to draft well and identify cheap FA with specific skill sets to fill specific roles. We can do better at both those things.

To this I don’t think Davis is a problem here as much as the depth to our pass catchers. Davis is the whipping boy for a larger issue. He’ll have a long career. His family will be set for life. But he’ll never be the blue ribbon receiver for any team and that’s totally OK.

- Michael Scott

Roster construction and costs 100% matter. You can't just scream "I LIKE THOSE PLAYERS MY TEAM SHOULD HAVE PLAYERS I LIKE". Acquisition cost via the draft and the salary cap are an integral part of piecing together a championship roster together. You can't ignore the information and path you don't like in order to get a result you find preferable. So fine, it doesn't matter. Just go to settings and turn the cap off for this simulation. Go sign whoever you want. In fact, lets change Allen's position to punter, then sign him to a 10 year extension and then set it back to QB. You are just yelling at clouds. We aren't even conversing at good faith anymore if you are just going to throw out information and say "It doesn't matter".

I think this is overly simplified. More than one thing can be true at one time. 1. Dorsey needs to get better. 2. The Bills can and should identify WR in the draft 3. I don't think Allen has trust issues, I think he has decision making issues where sometimes he just wants the big play/to throw to Diggs. Sometimes he thinks he can complete every throw even when it isn't the right throw. And sometimes he doesn't see other open pass catchers. Holistically those are the issues with the offense. Sometimes they all become a problem at one time. Sometimes just one or two pop themselves up. We can address 2 of those 3 things mid season. And I think if we alleviate those issues most people will have less of an issue with out personnel.

Bengals - All of those players on a rookie contracts - Nobody is saying the Bills shouldn't draft a WR Rams - if we can sign OBJ to a $850k deal we should do it. Also Kupp cost them $2M that year. Woods wasn't on the roster. Philly - QB on a rookie contract. You can choose their win or their loss. But both had next to zero cost at the QB position. San Fran - Sure, go ahead, get rid of the QB contract, go get me a 7th rounder to play the position, then use that money to sign all the skill positions.

Those guys are a talented group, but take a gander, they were cheap in their SB year. Evans, Godwin, and Brown had a cap hit of about $12M that year....total. Not each. But all together. Go draft somebody better. Go get a Juju at $3M or whatever they got him for in KC. But the constant "we need to sign an established 1a/1b vet. It is only the way for us to succeed" drives me bonkers. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tampa-bay-buccaneers/cap/2020/

There is certainly a cost effective formula that comes into play when talking about QB and WR cost for SB teams. I posted it a while back, but no teams pay 2 hefty WR contracts, and have their QB on a big money deal and win the SB. Last years Chiefs with Mahomes at $35M and Kelce at $9M are among the highest combined cap % to win a SB. I am not arguing not to upgrade anybody. Go do it. Get better. Draft somebody. Draft them high! Then go get me somebody who can play the slot at a high level for $4M per year. But the idea that all these SB teams are paying their QB and paying multiple WR big money as 1a/1b options isn't true. At some point we have to do better with what we have until the offseason comes. Gabe Davis isn't ruining our offensive production.

Cool, great. We should always be throwing the ball to the players teams ignore. Seriously. If they don't cover a guy, that guy should get the ball. I don't know why this is a knock. The amount we don't throw to the open guy on A-22 has driven me nuts season after season. If it is 4th and 10 with the season on the line, sure I can see "trusting your guy". But on 2nd and 8, to leave us at 3rd an 8 over and over again is so incredibly frustrating and defeating for an offense. As of late this board has been a circle jerk of "Allen can't do everything" but also "Allen needs to run more" and "Just keep tossing the ball to Diggs, the rest of the field be damned". The whole thing is counter intuitive. The entire offense isn't coming to a stand still at times because Gabe Davis is a mediocre second option on the perimeter. 2022 Diggs was the least targeted Diggs since he came to Buffalo. Losing Sanders, Beasley, or Daboll didn't change that.

There is no extra exposure for those guys. The 12 best athletes in the NFL have tons of it and all of them would much rather win a Super Bowl. They will play. But they won't play hard 1. because they are going to be miles better than everybody else. and 2. It is going to be just before the training camps, and they care about the NFL season. All sorts of sports don't take the Olympics seriously. Most of them are the ones that make the most money. Cycling, basketball, and tennis all come to mind. Sometimes all the best show up. Sometimes they don't. But the best players in the world in those event don't show up prepped to win. Football will be no different.

I think this will be a big time fail and end up being taken as seriously as the Pro Bowl. One change I would make is to make this an ironman game. Instead of 12 roster spots with 5 people on the field. I would cap the roster at 7 and make players go both ways. https://olympics.com/en/news/flag-football-rules-players-origins-things-to-know Let's just say the US has Adams, Sauce, Allen, Diggs, Hill, etc. The next best country is what? Canada? Don't get me wrong, there are some good players in the league right now, but come on....I think this is a big part of why this needs to limit roster size and play both ways. Brazil, France, Spain, Nigeria, might have some basketball players who can show up and make some things at least interesting with reduced rosters. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadians_in_the_National_Football_League

Non-contact injuries like ACL’s and achilles are a concern though.

I don’t disagree with you. I’ve been against borrowing from other position group spending and signing a 1a/1b WR. Allen and Diggs combine for $70M+ next year. Adding another $15-20M receiver isn’t how franchises set themselves up for success year after year. That’s a move that puts you all in once then you turn into the Rams. Allen is better than Goff and Stafford. I have zero interest in mortgaging the future when you have a real capable QB in place. If we want to draft a top WR high, I’m OK with it.

I’m fairly certain if the Bills somehow signed Devante Adams and moved Davis to the third outside receiver Diggs would still get most of the targets by a wide margin. Upgrade Davis with the somebody more explosive. Definitely find somebody in the slot. But getting the ball to other players not named Diggs has been an issue since Diggs came to Buffalo. I’m not saying Diggs sucks. He obviously balls. But rewatching some of these games in A-22, defenses are just ignoring some of our TE and RB in coverage. And we’re tossing it to double covered WR’s. All these things need to be better. This isn’t Madden, we can’t toss the season and hit “simulate to draft”. There is no going out and drafting a new WR in week 6 so I am going to keep harping on the things we can control. Commit to running the ball under center more and throw the ball to the open pass catcher.

Bud light has always been an official sponsor of the NFL. But Labatt has been a Bills sponsor for a while and they haven’t done any of these in some time. I think Labatt USA is in big trouble. They recently laid of 70+ people. And I know for a fact they lost Josh Allen because they literally no called no showed to the meeting they scheduled with him. He didn’t choose Corona over Labatt. Labatt literally ghosted him. It’s crazy that that brand went from winning F1 Championships and fell to all the way to standing up NFL super stars.

I think before injuries we showed that this might be the most complete team we have had this era. But I find myself having very similar frustrations with this offense and its consistency that I did a few years ago. But I’m also always impressed by it. It’s a weird spot. I do think it’s ok to stumble for a bit, and this team has a better ability to be balanced than anything we’ve seen under McBeane. If we can steady ourselves, get healthy and locked in, this could be the best Bills team we’ve seen.

2022 was actually Diggs least targeted year in Buffalo. Diggs has always been one of the most targeted WR in the league while he’s here. This isn’t new. The difficulty is we haven’t evolved from chuck it to Diggs, or have Josh hurdle defenders. That isn’t a sustainable offense no matter what the supporting cast is. I think that’s what McD was talking to today. Josh and Co. need to execute the plays that are called better, and Dorsey needs to do more to get more players and their skill sets involved.