Mango

I think we’d have to start throwing to our RB’s for me to even begin to consider Hines being a value add.

He had 14,9, 8, 13 the last 4 years. YoY he bounces around 6th to 3rd in the league when it come a to fumbles. Theres been worse years but there has never been “good years” when it comes to fumbles. Surprisingly this year he’s on pace for his best year in regards to fumbles. But we stink sooooo.

I didn't love the Von signing for similar reasons they are an issue now. I will say he was better than I thought he would be at his age before he got injured and his injury was unlucky. But that contract at that length and value for a 33 year old pass rusher was also a risk. TL;DR The Bills roster in 2025 will look almost totally different than it does today. Josh, Stef (hopefully?), Kincaid, Torrence, Milano, Bernard, Benford and Oliver are the only locks (off the top of my head). Knox contract is a bit bloatedt. A better valued extension could help alleviate it going forward. I do have a pin in it as a possible cut candidate after 2024. I think I am almost a little more annoyed with Dawkins contract. He is over valued with a bunch of dead years too. But I do think he is also a cut/trade candidate before next season if he doesn't sign a lower value extension. Josh, Von, and Stef eat a lot. And there is next to nothing we can do with Von or Stef in the near term. Not trying to move Stef. But we can't really restructure anything without a wildly unmanageable hit down the stretch. An extension doesn't feel realistic, he will be 34. And it isn't like he is going to take 2 years at $15M to help spread this out. Josh can be restructured and extended. That is a near guarantee this offseason.

I think you nailed it with “he is capable, at times”. Josh isn’t a dud. He’s a good QB. But I don’t think it’s a strength. It’s disingenuous to say that even if Josh does everything right it still the playcall. That’s just silly. We’ve seen a few games this year (and others) where Josh’s vision has been a primary concern. Not a whole lot different than any other unit or personnel group. I think Josh excels when things break down because his athleticism takes over and supersedes play design. Plays break down for a million reasons. Some personnel and some coaching related. We’ve heard other teams over the years say stuff along the lines of “make Josh play QB” or the like. I think Josh is so talented sometimes that works. Sometimes it doesn’t. But what almost never works for teams is letting Josh let his physiology take over.

There’s some credence to the “Dorsey picks plays out of a hat” narrative. But also, I think this sort of eludes to another point I’ve made. (Convenient I know). Allen is a physiological monster who isn’t necessarily processing the game at the speed of other QB’s. Allen is just running the play that’s called. But the play call has different reads and checks on who the primary pre-snap depending on the defense. Then those reads can change in an instant post snap. Then there is the read progression. I think “running the plays that are called” is likely a good summary of my frustration at times. Overlooking the open man for the “play call”. He is so wildly talented I think he can get away with it. But it can also make life difficult.

I agree. There is a decent part of me that says “Run it back. This is still so much better than what this guy did to the Sabres”. It can certainly get worse. I think (hope?) there’s a chance that Beane may be retained. I actually don’t love Beane but I hate what the alternative could be.

I think McD has been a decent CEO. An above average coach who more often than not would be an upgrade. But coaches run their course sometimes. He’s a crucial part of this team getting to where they are. I thought he might be able to pull a rabbit out of his hat this year. But after last night and his post game. He’s toast here. Time for everybody to move on at the end of the year.

Barring me being any sort of draft guru and not in any particular order, I would grab a WR, RT, and OC with our 1,2,4. Move on from Morse. We need the space. I’ve seen enough of Spencer Brown. I would be actively looking at possible prospects to take over for Dawkins in a year or two. Davis comes off the books next year anyways. No need to “move on”. We don’t have any money. If possible I would like to extend both Dane and Douglas. Douglas is almost a shoe in as it likely reduces his cap hit anyways. But I think this team likely moves on from Tre. I absolutely hate it. But it is what it is. We can’t fix everything at once. I think the Bills need to decide if they want a full reset at safety or not. I think either way you likely try and keep Rapp and either get one more year from Poyer at SS or give Hyde a few years, cut Poyer, and plan to run with Rapp/Hyde going forward. A new Daquan Jones contract would be nice. I haven’t been thrilled with Taron Johnson this year. Which is weird because he’s normally so great. An extension will give us some much needed space. Hes also not anywhere near a real problem with this team. We will need to draft some pass rushers since Groot and Von are the only two under contract next year. But we’ve over invested there the last 3-4 years. Time to load up around Allen and see what happens.

Shut up and get back under the stairs Potter!

Daboll lived on running 4-5 curl routes at a time and rolling Josh right with everybody running crossers. Allen was really great at it because like you said, his physical aptitude post snap is unrealistic But you can’t make a career out of two concepts. Daboll is seeing that with the NYG. I think Josh needs to have a bit less say in the organization. He picks his back ups, he picked Dorsey. We gave a PS spot to his college WR/roommate for years. We struggle at OC, WR, and back up QB. I think that goes hand in hand with Josh needing to be lead with a firmer hand.

I agree. I’d be tempted to keep Beane as critical as I’ve been. Terry Pegula making major decisions is terrifying.

He was targeted twice. I don’t think those two targets cost us the game. The decision to go to him on the INT was pretty bad. Blame him for the “grounding”. Sure. But it didn’t cost us this game.

I think with the production from Kincaid and Diggs, Davis filled the role many clamored for. I think he’s good enough there. People wanted a second outlet at pass catcher, Kincaid/Diggs did that last night? So what’s the expectation for your 3rd/4th option? Sometimes they have games. Sometimes they don’t. But for the crowd that has begged for a reliable second option last night, we had it and we still stalled. The offense misses a lot conceptually and in execution that goes beyond personnel. We have to get the ball to Cook more in the receiving game. Even when we throw to him underneath it’s often as a last resort. I’d love to get him going on the move.

I think he can be, which is where I get frustrated. I also don’t hate Josh, but once the season starts there are no more WR. No new HC or OC change to level up. But we can execute. The best way to cover up offensive woes in season is better QB play. I have taken huge issue with the way Beane constructed the roster. It’s going to take 2-3 years to reset. It frustrates me to know end. But he can’t do anything to help us against KC, Philly, Miami, etc right now. We just have to be better with what we have.

This is where I don’t know what to do. Both first and second down had guys wide open, uncovered. I expect Derek Carr or Ryan Tannehill to just “run the play that’s called” as Josh put it in his post game presser. But if your guy is top 5, you have to know not to just chuck it up there. You have to see the play beyond the play call. Just because a call is designed to go to “x” doesn’t mean you have to throw it there if he’s covered and others are open. And if others are open. Is the problem still the call? Part of me is pointing the finger but also I think those are legitimate questions.

I generally agree. But I had an issue with it given the situation. We were down. The defense was smoked and needed more than 90 seconds. We needed to give them a breather. I think we got lucky on that wild set of flags on the Bengals in the second. I think the defense breaks and the offense doesn’t give us a chance in the 4th if that series of events goes differently.

I can’t disagree with anything here. I will add that the defense was on the field a lot in the first half. Huddling up or going no huddle, I think a team should be able to convert a first down or two to give the other side of the ball some rest. The defense wasn’t good in the first half, but the offense also hung them out to dry. The first pass the offense completed after the first drive was with 1:30 left in the half. I thought that the defense was going to totally fold this game with all the 3 and outs and the like. And honestly, I think we got lucky with that wild set of penalties in the 2nd. Kudos to them, they really came out of the half firing.

There’s this sort of unspoken thing where everybody just kind of assumes that just because Josh doesn’t do something then the throw wasn’t there. I am no play call guru, but I do watch the all-22 every week and have been doing it for years. Josh taking the easy throws, and seeing the field has been something I’ve been complaining about since his first full season. That 3rd drive where we threw the INT was about as egregious as it gets. Both the deep throw to Harty and the INT on second down had guys WIDE OPEN. Both throws were terrible decisions.

Amtrak actually. But I’ll be passing through the Yonkers shortly. Ha.

I think some of the issue is Dorsey, some is offensive personnel, but I also think Josh has been figured out a bit. He’s a brute force kind of QB, and when things get tight he doubles down on it. I was driving this am and caught a quick CIN quote post game on NFL radio and he said something like “we just tried to keep the play in front of us, take away the big play, force them to drive the field, don’t let Josh escape the pocket”. Dorsey needs to find a way to get Josh going when teams do this. But man, it sucks to hear teams say stuff like this. This is where we just beat ourselves. Take what they give you!

I am sort of live tweeting this. On the train to NYC and this is a long video. But I take issue with Joes order of operations so far. 1. Coaching fine. 2. Defense. What?…

Worth noting with some of the Gabe Davis criticisms this week. “Where was Gabe?” Diggs and Kincaid did everything we begged from a first and second target. They were open a ton, caught just about everything, 16 catches for about 160. We got that 1/2 production everybody was begging for. Davis was a role player on the outside. That’s what people have pounded the table for. We have to do better at getting him and Cook involved situationally for chunk plays and RAC. Let Shakir find some soft spots. Davis brings some speed and size on the outside, and Cook should be tearing up LB’s in the passing game. Those guys are certainly good enough to fill those roles with the emerging of Kincaid as a legit option.

I have a little bit of an issue with the criticism that trying to get the run game going stalled the offense. On the second drive we took 2 deep shots and a short throw. Completed zero. The problem isn’t two run plays for zero yards. The third drive was 2 terrible decisions in a row from Josh that ended in an INT. Then came back on the 4th drive with run, run pass. We ran the ball 8 times with our RB’s. We can’t honestly be saying trying to run the ball once in a blue moon is what killed us. We ran the ball just 4 more times after that. That’s bonkers.

Just in general I think there I something going on. Dorsey has been here for 5 years and was OC last year. Josh has been the starter for 6. Diggs here for and Davis both for 4. 3/5 returning OL. Cook is back. Sure, McD is getting stale. Time to move on, I get it. But these are vets running together for a while now, with the same staff. I think there’s something else going on in the locker room. I can’t put my finger on it. I don’t know. I’m at a little bit of a loss. It is time for a staff reset I guess. I have some criticisms of Beane. But I have way more of Terry. I hope they don’t let them both walk. I have approximately zero belief in Terry Pegula’s ability to rebuild any franchise without needed a huge bit of luck.

This thought crossed my mind. We have something like 25 FA and -$41M in space. The issue is that to get us to break even well either have to mortgage the future a ton. Like a lot. Or we’re going to have to stink next year. I am tempted to “stink”, load up on OL and WR wart in the next draft, and worry about the rest later.