Mango

Wow, I never thought I’d see the day where Kyle Ortons slide a yard short of the first down marker could be out done. But here we are….

I would like to see Shakir in the slot a lot more. He’s not the biggest or fastest, but he seems to have a knack for finding space. I’d also like Harty and Shakir to see more diversified action. When Harty is on the field it would be nice to use him outside of his gimmicky plays and make the defense respect the amount of space he can cover in a short time. I thought he flashed with his short area quickness last week. Also much tougher than I thought he’d be as a ball carrier. I’d like to get him some more touches in general.

The work football analogy is closer to somebody who has been to like 12 straight presidents clubs, has been the key note speaker at a few conferences, and lead the entire industry in revenue, leading a team meeting after coming back from medical leave. OP is some guy in the back yelling “but how much did you sell last month Von”. He is the guy that gets fired.

I would actually remove anybody on a rookie deal/low cap number. I would remove Hurts as a comparable. He signed his deal but his cap number is $6M. He’s basically free, so the Eagles can do more around him. I think we could have and should have done more the last 4-6 years with Allen’s cap number. This is where our constant redrafting of RB, and DE’s that take 4 years to flash drives me nuts. We could and should be taking a pass catcher in the top 100 every year to every other. I do think this group is actually pretty good for a QB who is cap number is about to be $47M. The problem I have is the other years. I will say it for the 100th time, nobody is paying two WR’s with their QB on their second or third big contract. The Bills going out and spending $47M on Allen, $27M on Diggs, and $16M on Hopkins (trade) is a really bad idea. Going forward the offense will have to get by with Allen, Diggs, and a host of draft picks and cheap free agents. This is the way the NFL works once you pay your QB.

I think it’s a little bit of both. We could use somebody a little twitchier on the outside. I think Harty and Cook are pretty twitchy, but they never get the ball. We saw Cool and Kincaid be disruptive this week. There has to be some middle ground between doing a better job with the weapons we have and upgrading some of the pass catchers.

Doh! I responded to this thread without checking the cap implications for the Titans. I only checked ours. Originally I mentioned a 2024 3rd and Davis, with maybe a 2025 4th for both. Henry is in the last year of his contract. But that dead cap number isn’t awesome for TN. I could maybe move both those picks up a round each based on either a Henry extension (I likely wouldn’t extend) and/or team performance like making the AFCCG.

2 things: 1. The post above is you responding to yourself. 2. I don’t buy the Allen is being neutered bit. The entire premise has to throw out 5 years of history with Dorsey. KD has been coaching Allen since 2019. In 2022 Allen had more rushing attempts than any other year he played. And he did it in 16 games. In order to get to the finish line that Dorsey is neutering Allen, you have to ignore the fact that he coached Allen on every other rushing attempt since he was named the day 1 starter. And after all of that Dorsey woke up one day in the year of the lord 2023 and said “fork it; all that running I’ve been working with you on. Forget it. It’s over. Don’t do it ever again. Go to the cafeteria, get a knife, and bring me your balls. Consider yourself neutered”. That is a lot of hoops to jump through.

This feels out of the blue to me. But I’ll trust that there’s some legs to this if Vegas is giving us the best odds. A 2nd feels waaaay too high. This is the last year of his contract. I’m not sure I’d trade Davis straight up. Maybe a 5th that becomes a 4th with an extension? I love Henry, but he has some miles on him. With rumors of Hopkins getting moved I’d consider them both. Maybe Davis and a 3rd for Hopkins and Henry? Throw in a 4th in 2025 if they want more. I’m not sure how much I’d spend on this. Spotrac is awesome, but I wish they did a better job of sharing “trading x player has y result on the receiving teams cap”. I can figure it out, but on mobile it’s brutal….which I am on right now.

I think Knox being out could be a bit of a blessing if we can get another RB in the room. After seeing Kincaid “go off” (using that lightly) against the Pats; I would love to see us regularly see looks with Diggs, Kincade, Cook, and Murray. Harris going out made that difficult because we need another back to spell the other 2. Being able to have Henry in the mix could be huge even if he’s lost a step. But from a personnel perspective, if the defense goes big we should be able to split Kincaid/Cook out/get them in space, and if they go nickel and should be able to pound the rock. I’d run a lot of play action and boot legs. At that point Davis, Harty, Sherfield, Shakir all become role players, targeted to attack certain looks. I’d run a lot of play action and boot legs. That said, it seems like McBeane dating back to Daboll have a kink for receiving backs only to never actually dress them or throw them the ball.

This only makes any sense if you ignore everything else. Dorsey has been Allen’s QB coach since 2019. Allen also hand picked Dorsey to be his OC. The same way Allen has picked his own back QB’s, and the way we gave his college roommate a job on the practice squad. Hell, the new stadium will be the house that Allen built. When Josh talks the franchise listens. Maybe your train of thought makes sense to some. But a lot of these traits on offense have been pestering me for a few seasons going back to 2019. I’ve pounded the table that these are things he’ll have to get better at or it will affect his longevity in the league and the long term success of the franchise. Always tossing the big play any distance and any down, not seeing open receivers, being late to throw, these are all things that have been brought up under Daboll too. But players can’t complete low percentage plays for eternity, especially at QB.

Everything isn’t the QB’s fault all the time. But QB’s are the only player on the field who is in charge of distributing the ball to anybody else, calling the play, and setting protections. In season you will rarely of ever get a new RT. Or more explosive WR. But your QB can make a number of decisions every play that make those things in easier. Don’t get me wrong. WR is a problem. Spencer Brown is an issue. But we have to play around that for the next few months and the QB has more control than anybody to do that. For me it’s easy to say “Tyrod sucked at a,b,c” but I always reference players of Josh’s caliber as “he needs to get better at….”.

What does game planning around not looking at your second, third, or blitz beater look like? I am not trying to be snarky. But I am not sure what you’re talking about, that’s a very bland statement. How does one game plan around a QB who struggles to find an outlet when the pass rush closes in? At some point you have to get better at it. Every QB in the league can sit back and throw darts vs air. Every. Single. One. I think it’s chicken and the egg. Allen has been better a better athlete than most guys he’s faced on defense. His strength, mobility, and arm talent have masked some play identification issues. His ability to make absolutely spectacular plays has likely reinforced some not great traits. He can figure it out no different than he figured out his mechanics. But he has to do it.

I’ve actually been banging this drum for a few years. Josh is really good. Maybe the best overall physiologically gifted guy to play the position. His physiology bails him out of a lot of situations and decisions he puts himself in. He can complete almost any pass on the field. But it doesn’t mean he should try to. Just because he can, doesn’t mean he should. When Josh misses he tends to miss behind. His fast ball and legs have allowed him to get away with being late to throw for a number of years. He has made adjustments in other areas of his game. I keep pointing it out because I think it can be fixed. But the bill is starting to come do. I would like to add on here. Josh has a tendency to throw to his check downs as a last resort as they’re flat footed. He needs to do better at getting his check downs the ball a little sooner, before the defense can react.

Check our spotrac. His cap hit is still $6M. That’s still rookie numbers. It’s 2 more seasons before he breaks $20M. And 3 before he breaks $30M. I am actually not as high on Hurts as everybody else. I actually think Allen is a better passer but JH has 3 more years to evolve on the cheap with high priced skill players. Beane could have done better the last few years given Allen’s cap number and he didn’t. That’s 100% on him. But now we’re in a space where Allen is going to be costing $40M+ from here on out. We will have to draft well and get rookies going much much quicker. It’s unfortunate, but Allen will have to make do without big WR money outside Diggs. KC has a slight advantage that their best guy makes low TE money. For reference Diggs will cost $12M more than Kelce next year. That is a good chunk of change to be spread elsewhere on the team.

Nate is trying to be too smart here. What I get out of it is that if the offense is on schedule on first down, Cook is basically a cheat code. This is one of those things where a team says “we’ll keep calling it until you stop us”. We have certainly smashed our RB into a brick wall over and over again in past games. I reserve the right to criticize that too. Ha!

I always look forward to these. Thank you!

I’m not sure he’s regressed at reading defenses as much as he’s being asked to focus on areas of his game that amplify that weakness. I keep reading that taking away Josh’s ability to run is taking away his best ability, hampering his game, etc. The other side of that coin is that he isn’t able to read and react with his arm super efficiently. This is the same thing we heard about Lamar and Cam. It sort of is what it is. He will have to evolve. A new OC can help work around that for sure. But if we keep working around it and he doesn’t evolve the bill will come due. I am out of pocket; trying to pull it up. But it’s a bear. I am going to try and paraphrase as best possible. It was along the lines of “Of course I watch film. But I try not to get too wrapped up in it because teams tend to play us a lot differently than what we see on film. I prefer to trust my eyes, read, react. I like to play fast and loose.” I think it might have been @Beck Water who has the quote. But we disagree on interpretation.

Not to be pedantic, but at least for me I when I talk about Allen I don’t think he stinks, and I don’t think he’s lazy. I do think he could be better in a few areas that would help him and the team level up. Fitz sucked at some things like accuracy. But Allen can be better. Not sure if that makes sense.

Also agreed. This week feels as bad as the boards ever been with repeat threads.

The defensive game plan sucked this week.

@Simon I think it’s reasonable to have individual threads for all-22 breakdown each week. But at the end of each week those threads get merged into a mega All-22 thread. I think notable breakdowns of film provide more value than a hot take from Cowherd or Steven A.

There are some plays I don’t like. We often have a million receivers in the same spot. I also tend to think when you have large scale execution issues there’s a coaching error. The weird part for me is that this is the same HC, they weren’t as wide spread last year, and Dorsey has been on the staff for 4-5 years.

I actually think Dorsey has called 4 very good games this year. Jets, Raiders, Miami, and the Patriots. There have been some execution errors in some of those. Some of that is certainly on KD. Some of that is also on the OL, WR, and QB

At the risk of piling on, Kurt Warner’s film reviews for Allen have mostly been “just because he can doesn’t mean he should”. And I think Warner is a fan of Allen’s game.

These aren’t new issues either. They’ve been pointed out for a few seasons. We just can’t brute force our way through it all the time. I tend to talk a lot more about Beane and the players around the QB in the offseason or camp. I have been critical of some of the roster moves with this regime. But we aren’t going to get a new OC for another few months. Gabe Davis is not going to suddenly develop super explosive, all world, short area quickness. There isn’t a starting RT out there for the taking. What we can do is have our QB throw to the open receiver. That helps bail out a lot of other problems we’re having. I have confidence Allen can evolve. The other stuff will be dealt with in a few months.