Mango

In his defense Peyton said the same thing. Cook was moving the ball. We had production from Murray. Go down at the one in bounds and trust your guys. Force Denver to use some time outs. I subscribe to the “score when you can”. But I get it.

I am not convinced everything falls on Dorsey. I’d make Babich interim DC. And I think I’d make Dorsey interim HC. Let’s sniff this thing out before the offseason and get some better data. How much blame does where? Judging Dorsey without McD helps eliminate a lot of variables in player evaluations. I think Dorsey wants to run a high flying offense. I have zero sources to back that up, but it’s what my gut says.

To his credit, the D has done enough in a few of the loses. He himself needs to “trust the process”. Firings only mean this thing gets torn apart mid season only to try and be jump started again next year. I will say the same defensive call in a row plus the 12 men, all in succession, is the first time I was like “OK tear it down”. So much so I’d be open to firing McD and giving Dorsey a go as interim. Let’s not forget that a few weeks ago McD said he’d be MORE involved with the offense and they’ve done nothing but grip tighter. KD was part of some offensive outputs. I’m not advocating for it, but if it happened I could get myself up for it.

I think this is spot on. Good post. This is likely the only way we salvage the season.

I get One Bills Live is home team news news but Steve Tasker saying “the players couldn’t have betrayed Ken Dorsey more”. Is about as damning as it gets. Sheesh. That burns.

I wish Pegula was a capable professional sports franchise owner. If he could do that the Bills nor the Sabres would be in this position.

I am not sure it matters who the receiver is. The second INT was on Josh. Aikman said “every QB knows it”. Both Manning’s said the similar. You don’t throw that ball.

I’ve defended McD to an extent. Maybe replace Dorsey. Maybe make him get a DC. Maybe we stop giving the ball away like it’s in style. But we called the defense 2 plays in a row down the stretch. The Manning’s didn’t like that one bit. Then to lose with 12 men….. This sounds crazy, but all the above rolls up not down. I’d be open to a HC fire mid season, even if it meant giving Dorsey control as interim HC. I’m suddenly very curious how many of stalling offense rolls up to the HC not the OC.

I had a list of things to talk about. Things I saw. Things friends at the game texted me they saw. Comments from Manning and Aikman. But our coaching left 12 guys on the field in a run off moment with plenty of time to adjust. Jesus Christ. We’ve been turn over machines for 5-6 years now. But Jesus. To lose on 12 guys on the field.

What a very strange sentence and odd gripe about an NFL football team. I can get behind the premise that the team isn't having very much fun, but I am not sure WR's throwing passes and QB's/OL catching them are a meaningful way to convey they. Also nobody is having fun in jersey because they stink and Daboll is an absolute blowhard. I wish we would stop looking backwards all the time. That said, I think the general morale puts us on a crash course for a reset next year.

Zach Wilson stinks, so lets start there. But Saleh has been/encouraged kicking Wilson in the nuts all the time. I do think Wilson has shown enough that I wouldn't be furious if he joined the Bills as a back up and tried to get right. He has shown some ability.

Thanks for the reading recommendation. I will for sure look into it! I understand the basics. That was a loose use of the word autonomy. Apologies. But I digress. Your eye seems much better than mine. Do you think this offense is getting lost in the amount of variables per play we seem to have compared to past seasons?

Great breakdown, thank you! Question for somebody who seems much smarter than me. A buddy of mine texted me today that Fournette said this was the most complicated passing offense he had ever seen. Assuming that is true, by your eye does it this offense seem overly complicated or that players (OL, WR, QB) are struggling to understand their responsibilities? By my eye it looks like the WR's in this offense have lot of autonomy (responsibility?) to run their routes based on their coverages and this is where some of the miscues between WR and QB seem to be happening. It isn't just the option route stuff like we saw with Davis. But it seems like depth and direction of route is a struggle too. I am kinda-sorta hoping this is the case, because it seems like such an easy fix. It is at least better than entire offensive concept being flawed, or having to limp through until the draft/FA.

Somebody texted me today that Fournette said he had never seen an offense as complicated as the Bills and it would take him a few weeks to get up to speed. I tried googling it, but I can't find it anywhere. (if somebody could find it that would be huge) Treating it as true for now. this is likely where the problem with the offense lies. I am guessing that maybe the play book has expanded quite a bit this year, especially as the season progresses, which is why things seem much less smooth. It makes sense why we are seeing execution errors around a handful of position groups. Guys are just overwhelmed. Dorsey is over complicating some things. Josh isn't understanding some things. Turns out we can all stop arguing about the problem, because just about everything turns out to be true. On the bright side an overcomplicated offense sounds like about the easiest mid-season fix possible. Tear some pages out of the playbook, keep it simple, and hopefully we find some mojo again.

I don’t think we’re not trying to score points. There has to be some middle ground here. In the Bengals game in the first half the defense couldn’t get off the field and the offense literally couldn’t complete a pass after the first drive until 1:37 into the second. In that situation the offense has to be able to stay in the field for at least a few minutes and let the defense catch its breath. Otherwise they’ll totally break. But yes, going into games the teams plan should be score and let teams play catch up. But when the offense puts up 3 1 minute possessions in a row, there has to be some adjustments the other way too. We should be able to compete an effing pass you ourself in 1.5 quarters.

So, this is the way he should be used, and really what people have been clamoring for. We did, we have had a good first and second option the last few weeks. 16 catches for 160 yards between Diggs and Kincaid is good. What the offense is now lacking is making defenses pay for ignoring Cook, Davis, Shakir. These guys should be rotating their big games. Diggs/Kincaid as the primary and the others are complimentary. I don't see the need for some to hold Davis' feet to the flames for playing the role that people have been begging him to play. I will say that this game should have featured Cook as the third target. So many times he was ignored by the defense with nothing but green in front of him.

I am speaking broadly. Mahomes has been more consistent over his career. Burrow has been more decisive. Allen is the best of the two but is second to both in both traits.

The last C1 video is driving me nuts. He doesn't actually provide any proof to make the point he says he is making. And now everybody is parroting it. I get it, but after a game like the Bengals, where guys are open we have no patience to hit the play that is available, I don't put a lot of weight in the idea the entire play/play call is bad. We didn't complete one pass between the first drive and the last drive of the half. Guys were open. The fix has to start there before I can get anywhere else. 4 and 7 are more or less the same to me. This sort of erratic shifting of game plan is one of my biggest Dorsey complaints. More so than actual play design. Less concerned with the 3x1. More concerned with the spacing at times. I am curious if that is by design or execution error. We have a lot of execution errors, which I do pin on Dorsey. Some is on the player too. But when it is wide spread I think there is something going on internally at scale.

This might be the second most “Pegula”decision. It is closely behind hiring some 90’s player like Jim, Thurman, or Andre to take over play calling.

I see what you’re saying. But on the two plays against man, one had 2-3 guys open and was foiled by the Davis face mask. The other I think we may have looked at the wrong side of the field pre snap. I think the answer to this play is the answer to a lot of questions around the current offense. What are the check? What’s the process in cover one man? Was it a flub from Allen? Is there no check? Did he look right when he needed to look left? I actually wouldn’t go man though. I think the right call is for I test Allen’s patience underneath in zone with a spy. We just can’t help ourselves. Until the offense stops trying to beat itself there’s no reason to take the risk. Allen wants you to man up. Diggs wants to take you one on one. Just keep the play in front of you, spy Allen, and wait for him to test you right into the teeth of the defense.

I agree with some of this. But one thing . I think defenses do respect the big play. They don’t respect anything else. Often they’ll cheat over to Diggs/Davis and give an extra cushion to Cook, Kincaid, Shakir. If we want to open up the rest of the offense we have to beat the shirt out of teams by making them pay for that until they shift. You make reference to defense knowing the play. This wasn’t a game where nobody was open. This was a game where we didn’t throw to the open guy. I think defenses don’t adjust shallow because they know we’ll get away from it before they have to adjust. To your points I do get frustrated with Dorsey that when we find something that works we get away from it, whether it be running, play action, or playing behind center. But along the same lines, we have to take the pass plus that are there.

There was some situational use that drove me crazy. A couple of third and shorts where I noticed JP was in and Oliver was on the sideline. Off the top of my head there was a 3rd and short near the goal line that I was screaming at my TV and ended up being a TD.

I struggle with the grading on this. The overall grade is debatable. We moved the ball on the first drive and second half. But lacked scoring. I can get behind some of the better moments carrying more weight though The 83% in the second quarter seems high. 4/9 37 yards, an INT, and loads of open targets gets a B? This is the quarter we’re all wringing both Dorsey and Allen’s necks on, and a B?

The defenses called in the video was designed to take away the stuff Josh likes. It was their game plan. They said so much. The offensive plays in video had 2+ guys open on about 8 of 10 plays. What else do you want? Unsure what you disagree with in my assessment that would require you to have A22. Almost all my commentary in this thread have been about the 10 or so plays used by C1. All you have to do is watch the video this thread is based on and then you’d know what plays you disagree on. There are valid criticism of Dorsey. I even mentioned some of your same concerns in the post you quoted. But it seems like the comment section in this thread just listened to the audio, didn’t actually watch any of the video, and are repeating some of the platitudes. Simply a defense was called, the offensive play call beats it with multiple receivers open fairly regularly in the video C1 provided. And this entire thread has burst into “bUt ThAt IsN’t WhAt AlLeN lIkEs To dO. wE aReN’t ScHeMiNg GuYs OpEn”. WTF does not scheming guys open mean in a video where like 8 of 10 plays hand picked to support the premise, has 2+ guys open on the plays? Is this what I want this offense to look like? No, not regularly. But if teams refuse to break out of a cover 2 shell? He’ll yes, beat the shirt out of them with 4-6 yard routes underneath until they break out of it and start cheating up.

I can’t speak for everybody, but I watch a lot of other teams. I just watch them differently. For the most part I just want a good game. When I watch the Bills I have a rooting interest, and when they stink I like to figure out how they can get better. But when Herbert stinks I don’t give it much thought other than “Herbert stinks” and I flip on a 4:30 game. That said I think Allen is the most skilled, but the most inconsistent of any QB in the league. Mahomes comes the closest in skill but it a lot more consistent. Allen is way more talented than Burrow but Burrow is a lot more consistent than Allen (sans injury). That said, go ahead and grab another OC to try and settle this whole thing down. Spend our top 3 draft picks on a WR and 2 OL please. Just my $0.02