Mango

For all the games that bounced between and OC or QB issue, the Jets game was an execution issue. The board was pretty much unanimous that the play call/game plan on the offensive side of the ball was fine.

It’s overboard. I’ve even bowed out of this one at this point. 🤣

Don’t forget Matt Barkley and Tanner Gentry. I think the org needs to pull some decision making back from Josh. That said, I have no idea how much say he has over all things Gabe Davis, draft, etc.

I don’t know man, I’m not here to be in a duck measuring contest. You can win, you’re a better Sabres fan. You’ve watched more games. I am not going to hijack this thread with how many games I’ve watched and not watched year by year with this franchise or my take on the state of the team. I’ll leave that at HF and SS. Moving on to the actual point of my comment…. None of that is what my comment was about. It was about fan engagement. I posit that because the Sabres stink and the Bills and Sabres share the same owner, that fan engagement is at much higher risk. The fact of the matter is that when it comes to championship hockey Buffalo, NY is a top 5 television market for the league. But because of historically bad ownership we have some of the lowest arena attendance in the league despite being a community that watches a lot of hockey, just not a lot of Sabres hockey. The Pegulas have trashed a thriving hockey market for the NHL. Sports fans in this town have already sharpened their pitch forks at the Pegula’s. They just need a reason to point them.

To add on, a lot of talk about Allen being lazy at times, as a guy whose been critical, there is definitely nuance. I don’t think he’s lazy, I think he just needs to be better in certain areas.

Yes at large a lot of things going into not running a lot of offensive plays. Not the least of which is not throwing the ball to the open receiver underneath, taking shots you don’t need to, and getting behind the sticks. I think he can have an issue outside of a single game, and that games announcers can be talking another the game they are watching in the moment. Warner and Brady would seem to agree.

One thing that seems to be flying under the radar is that McD seems to want to get Allen going on the ground. At this point it just feels like the entire org is gripping too tight the last few weeks. If they could relax a bit, maybe find some flow, things would be better.

You literally set a standard of 9 play drives being the marker. In the game the Manning’s were commenting on we had zero 9 play drives. That isn’t on the defense.

Or if the throw is late. I think Josh has away a gotten away with a lot of late throws/reads because of his arm strength. In general he has struggled on and off with regulating his arm. Early in his career his deep ball sucked because everything was on a rope.

That’s a good point. That hadn’t occurred to me. In general I think you back Allen in this fight, and it isn’t really close at all. But for the sake of this exercise let’s pretend it’s an Allen issue (it’s not) and look down the road. Unless McD hits on another QB in the next 3-4 years he’s likely out of a job because he failed the QB position. So even if you think you might have a guy who can play the position, then rally around the passer. It’s not like McD is Tomlin or Harbaugh. He hasn’t won a championship.

I had a buddy at the game who texted me something similar. That Josh was just blasting heaters with little touch all night and making it tough on receivers. I think Josh’s arm strength, or lack of control sometimes makes it tough on receivers. It isn’t just how hard the pass hits, but it’s the timing from release to hitting a guy in the hands too. When throws are fast balls and a little bit late all the time it makes timing catches difficult. All that said, ball hits you in the hands, catch it.

I think maybe there is a version of the simulation where we keep McD one more year, maybe two, but only if he can keep some control over the locker rooms . Josh Allen makes Buffalo appealing but a bunch of old players and no cap space make it tough to be super successful quickly. It might not be the worst idea to let McD ride out another season, but Beane is prepping for life without him in the 2024 draft with a heavy focus on offense. It may require even an official sit down about heirarchy. That also means a guy like Brady gets a full calendar as OC. Then in 2025 a new HC comes in with a load of money, a young roster, and a franchise QB. That person in theory could be Joe Brady if he gets this offense firing.

There has to be a better middle ground between what you’re saying and what others are saying. The Bills are 19th in the league in total offensive plays and half to 2/3rds of the league have had their bye. We are currently reaping some positive because of it. That ranking will likely get worse in a week or two. We’re struggling to sustain drives and not throwing the football to open receivers is a huge part of it. And frankly if running Josh more has to be the solution to not throwing the ball to open guys then he is really going to struggle to play the position into his 30’s when he loses a step or two. Hopefully Brady can get this offense humming and Allen finds his groove again. But it has to start with completing the plays that are there.

Maybe I am wrong, but I think some of it is Pegula fatigue. I know a few years ago I was down to watching maybe a dozen or two Sabres games per year. Not that it is a conscious decision, but if this franchise starts to pick up some of the same stench as the Sabres, the Pegula's have already trained the fanbase to bail. Granted the NFL is a different beast. it prints it's own money, the season is much much shorter, and your team basically plays a couple of Sundays per year at the same exact time on the same exact TV station, then they disappear for 8 months. But I do think ownership is part of some of the undercurrent. EDIT: That said. I don't miss Bills games. I don't leave games early.

Really tough break for the Bengals this year. Burrow has had a couple big time injuries early in his career. And just as his calf seems to be on the mend this happens. This is good for Buffalo though. We need some help given our schedule and record at this point.

They should get used to it. At least compared to the level of winning they have been used to the last 3-4 years. Even if the Bills win a SB this year, they have a looming low/mid-level reset. We are the oldest team in the league with something like 25 pending FA's and no cap space next year. We have to clear out some a lot of our age and expensive contracts without much depth in the wings. It will likely mean a bit of a step back to retool and reload. Not that I expect us to be bad. We have a QB. But I expect us to be about a 10-7 team in 2024 and maybe 2025. Turns out that record may be coming a year sooner than planned.

Sheesh, could you imagine if the same people who owned the Sabres owned the Bills....

I think this basically answers a lot of questions as to why we often don't see guys get involved early in their career or why some guys just cannot participate like TJ Yeldon. Also weird to talk about "Less time on the roster". I get that people think he is talking about Davis and maybe he is. But if you apply it to the RB position which is what he was asked about, he played a PS player and brand new FA over a guy that has had 27 games and done a pretty great job of protecting the football. It doesn't exactly track for the conversation being had.

Honestly, I think this team scared itself with the Jets game to open the season. They bounced back, but found themselves in one of their midseason lulls like we have seen before, and what we are seeing is a team collectively grip too tight.

You and I have argued about Allen a bit over the years. But that would be insane. Allen is the franchise. He is the most important person at OBD, getting and keeping him firing hot is and should always be the priority. If the Bills were to move on from Allen, it can't be over a battle of wills. He has to be toast, done, or "washed" as the kiddos say these days. And I don't believe Allen's and I don't thin Allen believes or wants his career to be over. Soooo.....Deuces McD.

I am very curious what McD's thoughts are on this.

For all the talk about Dorsey's X's and O's I think your point was likely his biggest flaw. A huge part of coaching isn't just telling people the right things to do, it is getting them to do those things, finding the right words, to get the desired results. In fact, most coaches in the NFL are likely pretty comparable when it comes to x's and o's, but the difference between good to great is communicating that, and providing the proper environment/structure around it. Like a bunch of former QB's have said "guys are open, you have to make a play". Some of that is on the individual and some is on the coach. Whatever Dorsey was saying, nobody was hearing. It was time to move on because of that more so than any play call.

I agree. I think part of it is that the position is just getting an overall better athlete too. Those guys bring an additional value add. When their passing can be "good enough" they also bring an extra variable. I still think the QB position is pass first in this league. Maybe the NFL goes the way of the NCAA, where eventually you can just have a RB back there. But until then, if a QB wants to have longevity in this league they need to become proficient passers first and foremost. For long term success mobility is in "addition to", running cannot be in "replacement of" if QB's want to stick around for a while. To Fraziers point, Allen is a great athlete, rocket arm, and a good but not great passer. I think Josh getting a better feel for when to run, when to risk it, and when to take what's there will go a long way.

The comment was snarky, but it was specifically towards the Bills-Broncos game. A game where the Bills had zero 9 play drives. Edit: I took a quick gander at offensive plays per game, and the Bills rank 19th. So to their and your points, numbers of plays seems to be a problem.

Brady was on his podcast. Linked below. The Manning’s was from the Manningcast during the game. But there were comments like “if you have to throw it that hard it makes you wonder if you should throw it at all” and “they’re giving him everything underneath. Just march down the field. Does he know he is allowed to have a 10,11 play drive?”