Mango

Josh has always held the ball. He’s so dynamic with his legs and his arm is so strong he gets away with it. Bur Josh’s game has never included a quick release. At least not with any regularity. This part of the staff criticism is a bit of convenience given the current state of things. I will say that Josh thrives in a bit of chaos. Teams are not blitzing a ton and dropping 7 into coverage quite a bit. It feels like we are seeing some more stunts and or QB spies keeping him in the pocket/behind the lineZ I think those things, paired with Josh liking to hold the ball gives the passing game some pause. I think teams are begging Josh to hit his third or fifth step in his drop and immediately unload quickly. It’s just never been apart of his game.

Plot twist. McD is fired at the bye only for Ken Dorsey to be named “Emperor of Everything”. His first order of business is getting the Sabres another goalie.

I would have much preferred and likely defended “The defense of as struggling after a few long drives in a row. We really wanted to give them some time to catch our breath, regroup, and come back out on the field fresh and strong”.

I actually thought the soft zone paired with the constant 5-6 man rush really hung out secondary out to dry. They were better the second half. I’ll have to rewatch before I marry myself to anything, but the eye test says Dane was not born one of my top 3-5 issues with that game. Dane has been streaky. He has been white hot for stretches of games and awful too. In general I think he’s a decent piece and plays lights out when he has a very good secondary around him. He isn’t good enough to stand alone on the outside. It is what it is.

Right I don’t necessarily disagree. But I was responding “Josh used to have a problem with fumbles is first 3 years in the league.” Those are two very different conversations.

I think we’d have to start throwing to our RB’s for me to even begin to consider Hines being a value add.

He had 14,9, 8, 13 the last 4 years. YoY he bounces around 6th to 3rd in the league when it come a to fumbles. Theres been worse years but there has never been “good years” when it comes to fumbles. Surprisingly this year he’s on pace for his best year in regards to fumbles. But we stink sooooo.

I didn't love the Von signing for similar reasons they are an issue now. I will say he was better than I thought he would be at his age before he got injured and his injury was unlucky. But that contract at that length and value for a 33 year old pass rusher was also a risk. TL;DR The Bills roster in 2025 will look almost totally different than it does today. Josh, Stef (hopefully?), Kincaid, Torrence, Milano, Bernard, Benford and Oliver are the only locks (off the top of my head). Knox contract is a bit bloatedt. A better valued extension could help alleviate it going forward. I do have a pin in it as a possible cut candidate after 2024. I think I am almost a little more annoyed with Dawkins contract. He is over valued with a bunch of dead years too. But I do think he is also a cut/trade candidate before next season if he doesn't sign a lower value extension. Josh, Von, and Stef eat a lot. And there is next to nothing we can do with Von or Stef in the near term. Not trying to move Stef. But we can't really restructure anything without a wildly unmanageable hit down the stretch. An extension doesn't feel realistic, he will be 34. And it isn't like he is going to take 2 years at $15M to help spread this out. Josh can be restructured and extended. That is a near guarantee this offseason.

I think you nailed it with “he is capable, at times”. Josh isn’t a dud. He’s a good QB. But I don’t think it’s a strength. It’s disingenuous to say that even if Josh does everything right it still the playcall. That’s just silly. We’ve seen a few games this year (and others) where Josh’s vision has been a primary concern. Not a whole lot different than any other unit or personnel group. I think Josh excels when things break down because his athleticism takes over and supersedes play design. Plays break down for a million reasons. Some personnel and some coaching related. We’ve heard other teams over the years say stuff along the lines of “make Josh play QB” or the like. I think Josh is so talented sometimes that works. Sometimes it doesn’t. But what almost never works for teams is letting Josh let his physiology take over.

There’s some credence to the “Dorsey picks plays out of a hat” narrative. But also, I think this sort of eludes to another point I’ve made. (Convenient I know). Allen is a physiological monster who isn’t necessarily processing the game at the speed of other QB’s. Allen is just running the play that’s called. But the play call has different reads and checks on who the primary pre-snap depending on the defense. Then those reads can change in an instant post snap. Then there is the read progression. I think “running the plays that are called” is likely a good summary of my frustration at times. Overlooking the open man for the “play call”. He is so wildly talented I think he can get away with it. But it can also make life difficult.

I agree. There is a decent part of me that says “Run it back. This is still so much better than what this guy did to the Sabres”. It can certainly get worse. I think (hope?) there’s a chance that Beane may be retained. I actually don’t love Beane but I hate what the alternative could be.

I think McD has been a decent CEO. An above average coach who more often than not would be an upgrade. But coaches run their course sometimes. He’s a crucial part of this team getting to where they are. I thought he might be able to pull a rabbit out of his hat this year. But after last night and his post game. He’s toast here. Time for everybody to move on at the end of the year.

Barring me being any sort of draft guru and not in any particular order, I would grab a WR, RT, and OC with our 1,2,4. Move on from Morse. We need the space. I’ve seen enough of Spencer Brown. I would be actively looking at possible prospects to take over for Dawkins in a year or two. Davis comes off the books next year anyways. No need to “move on”. We don’t have any money. If possible I would like to extend both Dane and Douglas. Douglas is almost a shoe in as it likely reduces his cap hit anyways. But I think this team likely moves on from Tre. I absolutely hate it. But it is what it is. We can’t fix everything at once. I think the Bills need to decide if they want a full reset at safety or not. I think either way you likely try and keep Rapp and either get one more year from Poyer at SS or give Hyde a few years, cut Poyer, and plan to run with Rapp/Hyde going forward. A new Daquan Jones contract would be nice. I haven’t been thrilled with Taron Johnson this year. Which is weird because he’s normally so great. An extension will give us some much needed space. Hes also not anywhere near a real problem with this team. We will need to draft some pass rushers since Groot and Von are the only two under contract next year. But we’ve over invested there the last 3-4 years. Time to load up around Allen and see what happens.

Shut up and get back under the stairs Potter!

Daboll lived on running 4-5 curl routes at a time and rolling Josh right with everybody running crossers. Allen was really great at it because like you said, his physical aptitude post snap is unrealistic But you can’t make a career out of two concepts. Daboll is seeing that with the NYG. I think Josh needs to have a bit less say in the organization. He picks his back ups, he picked Dorsey. We gave a PS spot to his college WR/roommate for years. We struggle at OC, WR, and back up QB. I think that goes hand in hand with Josh needing to be lead with a firmer hand.

I agree. I’d be tempted to keep Beane as critical as I’ve been. Terry Pegula making major decisions is terrifying.

He was targeted twice. I don’t think those two targets cost us the game. The decision to go to him on the INT was pretty bad. Blame him for the “grounding”. Sure. But it didn’t cost us this game.

I think with the production from Kincaid and Diggs, Davis filled the role many clamored for. I think he’s good enough there. People wanted a second outlet at pass catcher, Kincaid/Diggs did that last night? So what’s the expectation for your 3rd/4th option? Sometimes they have games. Sometimes they don’t. But for the crowd that has begged for a reliable second option last night, we had it and we still stalled. The offense misses a lot conceptually and in execution that goes beyond personnel. We have to get the ball to Cook more in the receiving game. Even when we throw to him underneath it’s often as a last resort. I’d love to get him going on the move.

I think he can be, which is where I get frustrated. I also don’t hate Josh, but once the season starts there are no more WR. No new HC or OC change to level up. But we can execute. The best way to cover up offensive woes in season is better QB play. I have taken huge issue with the way Beane constructed the roster. It’s going to take 2-3 years to reset. It frustrates me to know end. But he can’t do anything to help us against KC, Philly, Miami, etc right now. We just have to be better with what we have.

This is where I don’t know what to do. Both first and second down had guys wide open, uncovered. I expect Derek Carr or Ryan Tannehill to just “run the play that’s called” as Josh put it in his post game presser. But if your guy is top 5, you have to know not to just chuck it up there. You have to see the play beyond the play call. Just because a call is designed to go to “x” doesn’t mean you have to throw it there if he’s covered and others are open. And if others are open. Is the problem still the call? Part of me is pointing the finger but also I think those are legitimate questions.

I generally agree. But I had an issue with it given the situation. We were down. The defense was smoked and needed more than 90 seconds. We needed to give them a breather. I think we got lucky on that wild set of flags on the Bengals in the second. I think the defense breaks and the offense doesn’t give us a chance in the 4th if that series of events goes differently.

I can’t disagree with anything here. I will add that the defense was on the field a lot in the first half. Huddling up or going no huddle, I think a team should be able to convert a first down or two to give the other side of the ball some rest. The defense wasn’t good in the first half, but the offense also hung them out to dry. The first pass the offense completed after the first drive was with 1:30 left in the half. I thought that the defense was going to totally fold this game with all the 3 and outs and the like. And honestly, I think we got lucky with that wild set of penalties in the 2nd. Kudos to them, they really came out of the half firing.

There’s this sort of unspoken thing where everybody just kind of assumes that just because Josh doesn’t do something then the throw wasn’t there. I am no play call guru, but I do watch the all-22 every week and have been doing it for years. Josh taking the easy throws, and seeing the field has been something I’ve been complaining about since his first full season. That 3rd drive where we threw the INT was about as egregious as it gets. Both the deep throw to Harty and the INT on second down had guys WIDE OPEN. Both throws were terrible decisions.

Amtrak actually. But I’ll be passing through the Yonkers shortly. Ha.

I think some of the issue is Dorsey, some is offensive personnel, but I also think Josh has been figured out a bit. He’s a brute force kind of QB, and when things get tight he doubles down on it. I was driving this am and caught a quick CIN quote post game on NFL radio and he said something like “we just tried to keep the play in front of us, take away the big play, force them to drive the field, don’t let Josh escape the pocket”. Dorsey needs to find a way to get Josh going when teams do this. But man, it sucks to hear teams say stuff like this. This is where we just beat ourselves. Take what they give you!