Mango

Total aside. Butch Rolle is a total animal at 53 years old.

Re: Rolle and Pike. This is before my football watching time, however I was actually alive, but just a thought. How can you list "marginal contributors" for two 7th round picks as misses? They were 7th round picks!!!! What type of contribution would warrant a hit for a 7th rounder? You should define what you consider an absolute hit v. absolute miss. Also these were 12 round drafts, I would either drop rounds 8-12, change expectations based on draft spot, or include UDFA in the later era's just to keep things streamlined. Apples to apples. In 2018, if a 7th rounder makes the roster 2 years in a row, you basically killed the pick.

We see it every single year. Guys end up showing up to the combine and put up huge measurables. Moving from the 4th to the 2nd round, etc. That said, scouts are watching tape on these guys all year long. Are there any major success stories of guys moving way up draft boards suddenly, then killing it in the NFL? Or should we be wary of rising combine stars?

I will go the other way. I don’t think Baker Mayfield will live up to anywhere near his hype. He’ll be a back up/sign with a new tram post rookie contract. My hot take, and I’ll eat crow if I am wrong.

All the cuts and trades as part of the "process" cost us nearly 20 mil in dead cap space for 2018. Also, Wood and Tyrod could throw another 10-20 mil this season in dead cap money. The big hits though are Sammy and Dareus.

Getting your MD or PhD while playing in the NFL is incredibly impressive. Quick google search says only one player has done it while being on an active roster. Pretty impressive stuff. I know some posters think it screams insecurity. It really does not bother me at all, unless he makes everybody actually refer to him as doctor.

Schedule is looking much tougher. My take on the schedule toughest to easiest. NE x2 - Still the team to beat until they are not. (Lx2) Green Bay- Rodgers back. Pettine on the defense. This will be a big year for them. (L) Minnesota- NFC Championship game. Very good defense. Lets see how QB pans out. Mostly dependent on that position. (L) Jags- AFC Championship game. Very good defense. Although I see them taking a step back this year. 50/50 game. We have played them tight. They are a good match up for us. A lot depends on Bortles. (W) Miami x 2 - They were a starting QB away from being a much better team last year. Tannehill will help. Gets moved up the list because they are in the division. (1-1) SD- Always a better team than their record. Anthony Lynn seems to have the team moving in the right direction. With Phil Rivers at the helm, they can beat anybody on a given Sunday. We traditionally struggle with this team. At least they are at home, but we got smacked around last year. (L) Houston- Watson is back. The defense is always formidable. Still too early to anoint Watson, especially after busing his knee up. Toss up game (W) Detroit- Had a good season. Stafford is still playing well. Better team than Buffalo last year (L) Indy- With Luck at the helm they can win any Sunday. Depending on when we get Luck and how comfortable he is being back (W) Jets x2- Lots of cap and changes. Still meh though. More of a future pain in our ass than anything else. Depends on what they do at QB. We split again. (1-1) Ravens- Meh. Slightly above average. (W) Tennessee- We will see how they do with a new HC. About the same as Buffalo last year. They have their QB. (W) Bears- Meh (W) 8 wins. About the same as last year. A few 50/50 games I counted as wins. With a few bounces our way we are back to 9-7/10-6. A few bounces the other way and we are 6-10. We aren't good enough to be hands down above .500, but can be if we are opportunistic. If we "Bills" some things, we are 6-10. Agreed, a lot of unknowns here. This is the first draft for the FO. McDermott pulled the trigger, but he did it with Whaleys big board. Will be interesting to see what they do.

I assume most most of these are a joke but wanted to throw this out there. NYG- Not resigned. Replaced by Geno “Flat Earth” Smith NO- Signed and cut in less than 90 days. JAX- signed and cut in less than 30 days, by a team whose WB depth chart starts with Blake Bortles.

It isn't just why would NASA lie, or look at pictures. The flat earth thing is particularly strange because the physics on how we literally move about our day is predicated on the very foundation that the earth is round. Next time somebody says they think the earth is flat "because research" ask them to redefine physics" IDIOTS But you are spot on. People think this way about all sorts of stuff and it is incredibly dangerous, because it is impossible to fight. All you we can do is make sure we educate their kids better than they were, and wait for them to die.

Does not change the tone (or lack there of?) of her response. She could have said: “Yes, I do think there is some viewership loss due to the protests. What we try to do in Buffalo is make sure everybody has a seat at the table regarding moving forward on the issue, and make sure we listen to each other. Players, can’t aches, staff, etc. We want to make sure we are supportive of our team, agile making sure the needle doesn’t trend down” But she didn’t. She was belittling.

I am sure there was “some effect”. But I doubt it’s largley to the degree people are claiming, if even measurable. I don’t know anybody and Dave in Philly has 4 generations of family and his 3 best friends currently boycotting. It’s all anecdotal. Reasons why people aren’t tuning in in order: -Over saturated. Sunday, Monday, Thursday, all season. -Lack of access. NFL network and ESPN. -Diminished product. I understand losing contact practices. It’s absurd that these guys aren’t allowed to even be at the facility for huge portions of the year. Less practice, less skill. -Protests. I think people use this one because it’s convenient, and the only one the NFL will halfway co-sign.

Ummm...okay? Am I the only one who thinks this didn’t make sense. (Granted I’m in bed with a fever and the flu) Nobody had ever explained the other side of the coin to black players? She then explain it was hurting business, which totally hasn’t been reported? And they were then like, “sorry boss, thanks for explaining. We will stop now” This whole thing comes across as tone def and condescending.

I agree with this. People are hating it though. It is gonna cost, what it is gonna cost to sign Cousins. It is not like he will take 18 mil to sign in Minnesota, or 30 mil to sign in Cleveland. Everybody will be in the 27-30 mil range. A QB like Cousins (whatever your ranking of him) rarely hits the market after his last few years. And teams rarely have the cap space the Jets and Browns do this year. It is incredibly wise to take the hit now while you have the space. Moving forward, in the last 4 years, he only costs you 20 mil. About average for a starting QB these days. The numbers sound crazy, because the QB market cost has skyrocketed the last few seasons. But 20 mil per year is pretty mundane for the position these days. If he regresses to the mean of the league, they still are in a really good spot whether they decide to keep or trade him down the line. I would consider signing Kirk to this deal, and trading down from 6 AND 38, and stock up on picks the next 2 years. With Kirk and a good draft they are 9-7 this coming year, with a QB in place, and draft capital for 2019. Depending on Bowles after that, it would be a really easy situation to make a HUGE splash for a new HC for 2019 as well. It "could be" the corner stone move, to a very quick and bright future for the organization. All that said, its the Jets. They'll pick some moderate players high in the draft. Sign Kirk. Fire Bowles. Get whoever is a half step above being the Browns HC, and flame out. Kirk will still be tough to beat, and they will be a thorn in the divisions side, because they really aren't very good, but a pain in the arse to play week in week out.

I was thinking about this the other day actually but slightly differently. Somebody from the top/middle of the second looking to move back into the first. Picking up their first next year, and another second this year. Heading into the 2019 draft with 2 or 3 first round picks again. It is a little Madden-esque, I will admit it, and only if the Bills think they can find similar value with another player in the 2nd, and not in love with anybody left in the 1st.

I have said this before, but the perspective is important enough to restate. The Bills traded down and got an extra pick, for the best QB in the draft class (however the worst draft in ages). I will never fault them for that pick IMO given the value with perspective. They didn't miss in Losman fashion. they found value and selected the best QB in the draft. He blows. I get it. But that doesn't make it a terrible roll of the ice. We would all roll the dice on that pick in another year/not EJ. Best pick at Qb at 16, with an extra pick on the second. You would take that 10/10 times.

PFF Ranked their top 101 Players. Bills: 21. TRE’DAVIOUS WHITE, CB, BUFFALO BILLS Top 101 appearances: New entry There were other rookies that received significantly more recognition than Tre’Davious White, but the Bills’ rookie had an incredible debut season in the NFL and was named PFF’s rookie of the year. White allowed just 50.6 percent of passes thrown his way to be caught in the regular season and allowed no receptions at all from three targets in his one playoff appearance. He has four picks and 12 pass breakups over the full season counting that playoff game and did all this while being thrust into the No. 1 cornerback role for the Bills from day one after the team traded away Ronald Darby. PFF Elite Stat: White led rookie cornerbacks in average cover snaps played per reception allowed (15.8). 95. JORDAN POYER, S, BUFFALO BILLS The Buffalo Bills‘ safeties were overhauled in the offseason, and a new defensive scheme only maximized their impact in Year 1. Jordan Poyer had an outstanding year for the Bills and made the PFF Team of the Week two times. Poyer had five interceptions and six pass breakups over the year, earning an overall PFF grade of 87.6. PFF Elite Stat: Poyer missed only four tackles on 572 snaps in pass coverage. Top 101 appearances: New entry 97. MICAH HYDE, S, BUFFALO BILLS Top 101 appearances: New entry Another player to benefit from the Buffalo safety revamp and scheme change, Micah Hyde came over from Green Bay in the offseason and immediately upgraded the Bills’ secondary. Hyde ended the year tied for the fourth-best coverage grade among all safeties at 89.8 thanks to five interceptions and five pass breakups. PFF Elite Stat: Hyde allowed 80 yards after the catch, eighth-fewest among safeties with 500-plus cover snaps. 99. LESEAN MCCOY, RB, BUFFALO BILLS Top 101 appearances: 3 LeSean McCoy had another excellent season for the Buffalo Bills, a team that found itself unexpectedly in playoff contention and ended up making it all the way to the final minutes of the wild card round against the Jaguars. McCoy had an overall PFF grade of 82.3 and broke 33 tackles on 287 carries. PFF Elite Stat: McCoy totaled 16 explosive (15-plus yards) runs in 2017, which was tied for the second-most among all NFL running backs.

This is really good. Can't argue with any of these. No peers in their prime. Fully agree on Ted Washington. For what he was tasked with doing, there wasn't a better NT in the game, and it isn't close. So you think that Randy Moss had a career that produced equally to his physical talent/ability? Based on how I am reading that, it sounds like you think Jerry Rice was equally as physically gifted as Randy Moss?

I fully agree. It’s the same with physiologists for most countries national teams. Take a guy who has intimate knowledge of stats/the human body and have them apply it to football/Olympic sport. Things are actually much harder, and less benifical the other way around.

I didn’t put AP as better than Sanaders or Emmett. The question was guys who were exponentially better than everybody they played with. AP early and mid career was hands down the best RB in the league, with the next best a mile back. The question wasn’t meant to cross era’s

I give full credit to Beane in turning over the staff and recruiting/hiring guys to buy into what we are doing. That’s part of his job. But these guys aren’t getting hired based on their actual work with the Bills. They’re getting hired/interviewed because the got a promotion to a higher role, for a franchise that exceeded expectations. I would argue that we are lacking in Pro Personell. That position is largely responsible for filling depth. And we lack that at basically every single position. QB, WR, OL, LB, CB (EJ Gaines record), DT, goes down and we are missing absolutely major pieces. FA was Whaley and Co. We replaced the FO immediately post draft. I purposefully left out the last draft as a pro or con for either GM for the same reasons I do with the transition of Nix to Whaley. Some picks you have an idea, but we really don’t know at all. It’s just a mosh-mosh. McClap was already here, and there have been zero inside reports as to what went on. Everything is speculation in both directions.

I don’t watch enough college ball to really know. It’s a really good question. The big question is what’s the cap hit if we cut TT in 2019 rather than now, 2018? Nobody worth anything will come here on a year or two deal just to be cut a year or two later. Since that’s the case might as well pay the contact we have now...unless we can get out of it for the same price a year or two from now. Otherwise we are right back where we started.

20 years was an estimate for my life. In my early 30’s. I can’t say I understood football at a mediocre level until later. In you lifetime would probably be better....but hey narcissism. Lokikngdor exponentially better than than everybody else. The quoted are a ton of guys who are arguably similar to others. Gotta pick a singular guy. WR- I would say Moss is easily the most talented of all time. Not even a question. But production and effort don’t match up. DE- another log jam of similar output. If you can’t differentiate, then I’d say it’s a disqualified position. Strahan was always solid, he did have a season with 20+ sacks with the next best at something like 15. Argument coupd be made. OL as a whole- in all honesty, I’m not fluent enough in OL play to differentiate between very good/dominant and better than the entire league. I just don’t watch individuals enough there to have an opinion. RB- those are good. Not much overlap. I think you hit it pretty well. TE- as a complete player, there’s Gronk and a mile between every other TE in the league in his tenure. As a pass catcher it’s arguable. Gonzalez is probably the closest. DT- this gets tough. But Sapp deserves credit. I broke it down as pass rusher. So I over looked LB- IMO Ray Lewis since 2001 and it’s not close. CB-Revis. Honorable mention Peterson because DR is on the downside of his career. Name one player who was the absolute best at any position, that most would agree on, during their playing time.

I came to say say the same thing. I wouldn’t consider Pennington a miss at all. Pre injury, his arm strength was very good. He lost a lot of strength because of it. Still had a long career. Leftwhich, he was a good passer and QB. Just wasn’t great. Looking back I feel like he kinda just hung it up, rather than bouncing around a ton. Speaking of Jags QB’s that flamed out. I’m always confused on what happened to David Garrard. I feel like he was good enough to be a decent stop gap or quality backup. Just stuck on absolutely horrid Jags teams. He just stayed there for like 10 years and disappeared. Sweet gig I guess.

A friend and I were having a conversation the other day about players who were best compared to everybody else they were playing against in their era. Hands down better than everybody else at their position without question. We are at the tail end of a QB surplus, so it’s hard to argue a guy like Rogers who plays with Brees, Brady, and Manning. All are sure fire first ballot HoF, and no one isn’t a standard deviation better than the rest. Pass Rushers are hard from the mid 80’s to 90’s as well. Bruce, Reggie White, LT. They had peers of similar caliber. Same with RB. Thurman, Barry Sanders, Emmett Smith. My thoughts on guys I can remember since I understood football, not just watched: Adrian Peterson Derrelle Revis Ray Lewis- Urlacher is over rated IMO Steve Tasker- as a special teamer Devin Hester- as a returner Pat Williams- might be a homer pick Any others?

Father Time punched him right in the face. He went from all time great to a journeyman pretty quickly. Being a crappy teammate helps. He’s still talented. Just not even close to the same guy.