Mango

How about a simple, where am I wrong? I can’t find a single position, that as of today, is going to be better in 2018 than it was in 2017. Edmunds might. Maybe Allen turns it on. Hence I marked today. I also just looked at the starters, not total depth, which it seems might apply to WR3+ or RB2+. But starters for this year? As of August 28, I don’t see it.

I am a Whaley fan, and I fully agree with this. Failure to commit to the QB position was an issue.

How many of those are self inflicted wounds by the FO. I totally agree that we have too many holes to cover in an off season. He’ll, I think it probably takes 3. But there didn’t need to be that many. Dareus is a good example. Between dead cap and salary, we are paying his replacement 23 mil for lesser production. We had an out next year that would have slashed his dead cap money. It feels like we are trying to clean out the fridge but just throwing perfectly good food on the ground in the process. Now we have to clean up the mess and buy more groceries.

I had some issues with that response from McD. We don’t even have a starting 5 on our OL. Basically LT is the only position set. Instead of taking the game to evaluate who to start where, we scrambled it all around for a bunch of “what if” scenarios. Seemed counter productive to the big picture. I used to have a coach that always said, “the main thing, is to keep the main thing, the main thing”. It didn’t really resonate for me until I got older and I started my own coaching career/life generally just gets more complicated. But Sunday seemed like the antithesis of this.

Pitiful OL performance all pre season. After a season of varied results, mostly bolstered by the performance of the left side of the line. I think the larger gripe is that the FO has literally been preaching for us to trust them. Now 15 months into the job, we are seeing the results of their trust. They lost 2 pro bowl lineman, with a terrible right side, and traded away another talented (albeit injured) LT, and made no real attempt to fortify those positions, we should “trust” them. Since Beane took over, virtually EVERY SINGLE position on this roster is worse than the day he started. In 15 months it’s not crazy for us to expect some position to be better. Allen might be the guy. MIGHT. Which is fine, swing for your QB, but you can get better elsewear. Same with Edmunds. He might be better than Preston Brown, but he’s leading a LB corps that is under performaing last years group. QB- Worse (today) RB- Same. Although Murphy looks good. FB- Same WR1- Same (not good enough) WR2- Same (Zay- not good enough) TE- Same LT- Same LG- Worse C- Worse RG- Same (bad) RT- Same (bad) LDE- Same DT- Same DT- Worse (sorry Dareus is better) RDE- Same (until Trent proves otherwise/healthy and currently not good enough) OLB-Same (not god enough) MLB-Same (that’s being generous) OLB- Same (not good enough) CB1- Same CB2- Worse Safeties- Same CB3- Worse

That wouldn’t be needed if we didn’t trade Darby. It’s a hole because the FO made it a hole. That’s the most frustrating part about all of this. I don’t get the blinders by some fans, saying “we don’t have any talent on the roster.” Or “you can’t fix everything at once” It’s all true, but it’s also largely self created.

Probably would want to address that well before August 2018...

Shiite. I forgot about Kromer. That’s kind of ruined my day now. Thanks for the reminder...

Glenn is totally fine per reports in Cincinatti. 2016 was a high ankle sprain he came back too soon from, that lingered all season. I forget the issue in 2017, but he just had surgery. I am also assuming we could have still gotten Allen without the Glenn trade at a different cost. Didn't see the Gaines injury. Good point. We were 8-3 in the regular season in games he started though. Something to account for.

Can Mack play OG or OC? Asking for a friend.

Currently making too big of a deal about this. Per the Bengals and Marvin Lewis, "Cordy Glenn is fine". He isn't missing anytime with this. Probably just a tiny ding, and it's preseason, so he was done for the day.

Eric Wood came very shortly after the playoffs, so it wasn't like it smacked us totally in the face, there was plenty of time to redirect the offseason in regards to the C position. Richie was about 3 weeks before the draft, so I will give it "some" credence, but it isn't like we went all the way through the off season and suddenly lost or LG.

If the strength of the OL the past few years has been LT, LG, and C, and we drafted a rookie QB, and have two very inexperienced vets as QB's, why wasn't the right side of the line addressed/upgraded? Regardless of the left side of the line, they knew the position they were going to be at with the QB, and the right side remained exactly the same. It is kind BS to pin this on Incognito and Wood given the lack of other meaningful moves on the OL.

We keep (justly) complaining that the FO totally underestimated how bad this OL would be this year. What are the moves we should have made in FA and the draft to solidify the unit? (outside of Wood and Richie) My thoughts: - Keep Glenn and kick Dawkins to RT - Tyrell Crosby in the 4th instead of Taron Johnson. Can play G and T. - Re-signed Gaines - Retained either Coleman or Johnson for slot CB. Our Secondary is better than current, and OL is upgraded. Starting OL would look something like: LT: Glenn LG: Crosby/Teller/Ducasse/Miller C : Groy (I have faith yesterday wasn't his true form) RG: Miller/Ducasse/Teller/Crosby RT: Dawkins (His projected position)

This is actually a good discusssion, what should we have done to address said needs, especially on OL. Probably kept Glenn, swung Dawkins to RT (where he was projected), also drafted Tyrell Crosby in the 4th instead of Taron Johnson, slightly over valued there, but fills a huge need for us. Offered EJ Gaines an extension and retain Coleman or Johnson. Secondary and OL are both improved. At the time I don't think I really wanted the Schwartz hire to replace Marrone. Looking back on it, I am pretty curious what this team would look like if he were the hire and not Rex. My guess is we would have been a playoff team sooner than 2017. But still in QB purgatory (which we are still in now, until Allen pans out)

I agree with this. I am generally a Whaley supporter about most of his moves. Whaley’s biggest down fall was NEVER being able to hire his own HC to run the pieces he put together. but... Part of his job is to generate trust and buy from the people above him to make those moves. In that regard Beane is far out performing him. Whether Beane is successful in personnel moves remains to be seen. Right now he is losing to Whaley in that regard.

Are you telling me FA signings like Starr, Tolbert, Bodine, Newhouse, Kerley, and Davis aren’t inspiring a whole lot of confidence in the FO?

Fully agreed. This isn’t the 90’s anymore. Teams don’t take that long to turn around these days. If you aren’t difinitevly better after 3 years, you’ve failed IMO. That’s just the NFL in 2018.

Gotta read the thread man. Safety: Whaley QB: Maybe- I was fine with the TT trade. But Allen needs to pan out. LB: Maybe- Edmunds needs to pan out CB: Whaley drafted White, Beane traded Darby. We could have both. But instead have White and Davis. Cap: this is fair, but not until next year.

I would disagree with that, totally. Obviously there is some nuance and explanation to a lot of the moves, but it is not asking too much of your GM, after 15 months, to make a single position or positional group better than what they inherited. Right now we are hoping that the future is better for us with Edmunds and Allen, but those are still question marks. Maybe DE is better with Trent Murphy over Shaq?

sarcasm dude.

Huh...did you follow the thread/quote at all. I was commenting on a guy that said Beane upgraded the secondary. He didn't, at all. That isn't really up for debate, because, well, it is definitely worse. The thread is about what position(s) did Beane upgrade. There may be reasons, like draft capital, and clearing cap space as to why some are not upgraded. What positions do you think are upgraded on the current 2018 roster from the 2016 or 2017 roster?

I thought Milano had a nice game for us yesterday. If there is any bright spots on the defensive side of the ball, I thought he was it.

I read a stat a few months ago (trying to find to confirm), that in the years Whaley was named GM (13-17) he has more starters in the NFL than any GM in the league.

Not to pile on, but White was also not a Beane draft pick. Haha. Too bad EJ Gaines couldn’t stay healthy for us, and we didn’t offer him an extension. I was fine with the Watkins trade for him since we were never going to pay him. A healthy and re-signed Gaines would have been a great Beane move. but I guess that’s too many what if’s...