Mango

I don't think people want or expect him to throw 300 yards week in or week out. Or at least I don't, you become too one dimensional all the time. Rather would like to see him own a game if we do need to go there in a shoot out. Not to rehash old wounds/threads, but Josh is pushing pretty low on the list of starts to 300 yards. Right now he is at 24. The only QB's since 1998 who lasted 6 years and/or had 20 starts in the league who failed to hit a 300 yard game by now are: Vince Young (25) Charlie Batch (27) Tyrod Taylor (29) Alex Smith (36 David Garrard (40) Seneca Wallace (never) Kellen Clemens (never) Trent Edwards (never) David Fales (never) Again- hitting early doesn't mean anything, but it seems hitting late is not great.

I agree with you to a certain extent. I would much rather have Josh than Duck moving forward. I think Josh is a better QB because of his legs, his arm strength, and his intangibles. But to play devils advocate, I think we all wish that in the Baltimore game Josh took some more safe underneath stuff, and that his bombs were 50/50 balls (which they weren't). You don't get bonus points for missing more difficult throws vs. completing easier passes.

I don't think it is an agenda. Via the numbers, TD, TD:INT, Per Attempt, and Comp %, he is playing better over 4 games, than Josh has over 13 this season. The sample size is small. It is a bit of click bait, but it isn't necessarily wrong, and does not mean that their careers will follow that trajectory. He is bound to lay No need to get our panties in a bunch. He is bound to lay a few clunkers against Buffalo and Baltimore...god knows what happens in that Jets game. The numbers will play out.

I think we are very much on the same page. Glad you posted, much easier than half replies in another thread.

Sorry, part of my point was, I don’t think he is a very accurate/precise passer in general because of the issues I said above. I think a large part of the perception of being more accurate in the short/intermediate is just shifting what types of passes he is throwing a majority of the time, not making huge strides as an actual thrower. I thought I was seeing a change the last three weeks , but then Sunday happened and I am wondering if I was wrong. He’s made some improvements in addition to taking some of the underneath stuff. But he’s moved the needle from a 52% passer to a 59% passer. I really liked his last 3 weeks before Baltimore. But Sunday was a rough one.

I am not so sure the issue last year was with the short to intermediate stuff. It seemed to be a matter of learning to take it rather than a matter of delivering it. If I recall, wasn't JA near the top of the league last year in average yards per attempt last year. Josh's issues seem to have always been controlling his velocity, mechanics, ball placements, and reading the defense quicker (which velocity bails him out on a lot). I don't think it has ever been as simple as "he can't throw the short stuff". It is the other big picture/fundamental stuff that has been holding him back as a passer, not granular specific throws. Which is why I would think BOTH deep and intermediate routes would have improved this year because it really is the base layer.

I could be wrong, I think he is more talking about Lamar running the option. Still, if a mobile QB wants to pretend like they either have the ball and are making a throw, or pretend like they are running the ball off tackle, they should be treated as if they actually have the ball.

Thanks for the correction. I didn't recall, just went off context.

I think this is the article you are talking about. He doesn't say that he was terrible with the deep ball when he was in the NFL. Contextually, I read it as implying he was terrible at it in HS. He could throw it 75 yards, but it wasn't catchable. I think it goes back to what Rodgers said helped fix him, footwork, then timing footwork to each throw/route. Then of course Allen needs to control his velocity, and be a little bit like Rick Vaughn. http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/11984391/green-bay-packers-qb-aaron-rodgers-talks-art-deep-ball

Slow work day...I put it in excel. Josh is better than Kyle Allen, Rudolph, Foles, and Daniel Jones. The only other who played this week was Kyle Allen. Name COMP ATT Comp % Kyle Allen 9 45 20.00 Mason Rudolph 8 34 23.53 Nick Foles 4 17 23.53 Daniel Jones 9 37 24.32 Josh Allen 13 53 24.53 Sam Darnold 10 38 26.32 Josh Rosen 4 15 26.67 Jared Goff 13 43 30.23 Aaron Rodgers 20 64 31.25 Lamar Jackson 13 39 33.33 Andy Dalton 10 30 33.33 Joe Flacco 7 21 33.33 Dwayne Haskins 6 18 33.33 Case Keenum 5 15 33.33 Derek Carr 11 32 34.38 Jacoby Brissett 10 29 34.48 Ryan Fitzpatrick 15 43 34.88 Mitchell Trubisky 15 42 35.71 Philip Rivers 23 64 35.94 Baker Mayfield 18 49 36.73 Ryan Tannehill 10 27 37.04 Jameis Winston 28 75 37.33 Carson Wentz 22 58 37.93 Drew Brees 8 21 38.10 Matt Ryan 19 47 40.43 Matthew Stafford 22 54 40.74 Deshaun Watson 25 60 41.67 Patrick Mahomes 23 54 42.59 Teddy Bridgewater 6 14 42.86 Tom Brady 24 55 43.64 Kyler Murray 21 48 43.75 Kirk Cousins 21 48 43.75 Russell Wilson 28 62 45.16 Eli Manning 5 11 45.45 Marcus Mariota 5 11 45.45 Dak Prescott 30 65 46.15 Gardner Minshew 19 39 48.72 Jimmy Garoppolo 16 27 59.26

I guess you would have to take a look at the tape and break it down as to whether or not the WR has a step. There were a number of opportunities against Baltimore where coverage was beat and we didn't make a play deep. I feel like we are going down the long ball rabbit hole of is Josh good or not. My original point was, this is the NFL, Josh Allen has just as much access to resources, coaching, reps, etc. as every other QB in the league. To somehow insinuate that after 4-5 months with his receivers, he is in some special position in the league that he can't hit an average rate is silly. He had the worst long ball accuracy in the league last year, and he is on pace to do it this year.

No. Lamar is 13/39 Josh is 13/51

NP @Hapless Bills FanIt’s seems most outlets aren’t producing the data set until it is complete. I found that SIS is keeping the data live and to the public. Josh Allen is the worse ranked starter in the NFL at deep passes. The trend is continuing from year 1 to year 2. Now @GoBills808 , if you’d like to actually add to the conversation rather than being pedantic and combative, that would be great. To my original point, Josh Allen isn’t in some special circumstance where he can’t develop rhythm with his WR’s after 4 weeks of camp and 14 weeks in season (+ the bye). He gets just as much practice as everybody else. https://sisdatahub.com/leaderboards/QB

Football outsiders does it at the end of the year. But we know he is among the worst in the NFL this year at the long ball in general. He was the worst QB in the NFL in 2018 at the go route specifically. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/2018-dvoa-routes-quarterbacks

I agree with just about all of this. I would guess between last years season, off-season, and this season, Allen is getting a bunch of reps with go routes. I don't think it is a "he isn't practicing it so he isn't connecting on game day with it". I guarantee he is practicing it a ton, he still just blows at it. (Hopefully that isn't a forever issue). It just feels like this is being presented as a special Josh Allen issue. Other young and veteran QB's are hitting these passes at a much higher rate then JA, with the same amount of weekly prep. He doesn't have a special circumstance other than sucking at it currently. And frankly, if he needs more than 4 weeks of TC and 14 weeks of the season (13+ bye) with his receivers to hit on more than like 8% of deep routes, than things will be tough sledding for all of us long term. Because in 3 years this WR corp will be much different again, and we can't wait nearly a season for it to come together.

I mean, you would think they practice during the week, right? Teams don't actually throw the go/fly route terribly often. In 2016 the high end for a QB was about 2.5 times per game. Just throwing it, not completing it. It would be nice to hit on them occasionally, and we do need to, but I don't think chemistry on a route that the average QB only throws 1-2 times per game is the issue we hit on near ZERO go routes.

I would honestly consider vacating the rest of the season. It’s never been about the results, it’s always been the process. It’s institutional. Trying to pick up tells and signals is different that changing/creating/cutting out head set frequency. Psi of the football is meh to me. Submitting them to the ref high or low doesn’t matter. Coordinating their theft to adjust is terrible. Now, creating a TV show so you can have an excuse for videotaping calls...AGAIN!!!! This is strike 3. Spygate. Deflategate. Spygate 2.0. How can you let them compete for a championship this year after this. Forfeit the rest of the season. No playoffs. Vacate wins this year, give them away. If the NBA can remove an owner for racist remarks, the NFL can remove an owner for destroying the integrity of the game. Let them keep their picks, but dismantle their ownership, FO, and coaching staff.

I have been beating this drum for the last few weeks, basically since Cleveland. This game has the biggest effect on the Bills playoffs both positive or negative.

Just to be clear, I personally think this was one of his worst games of his career, and wasn't just bad. I was more commenting on fan reaction, than quality of play. He is basically getting a 1 game pass because of the last few weeks.

For the record, I don't think people are dejected after this game, just disappointed. Josh has been slowly getting better since the Patriots debacle. I think he looked like he had been hitting a nice stride the 2-3 weeks prior to Baltimore. We just expected his showing to be not exactly what we got against NE, and he failed to deliver. But I think the fan base is a bit higher on him now after this loss than they were the NE loss because of some of the progress he has shown. But as we know this league is "what have you done for me lately", and he just made his own leash shorter.

Dude, YOU ASKED WHY THE MEDIA WONT MAKE A BIG DEAL OUT OF LAMAR'S INT !!!!!! I responded with a 3td game, 64% completion percentage, his ability to take over the game as a passer and a runner, the win streak they are on, etc. YOU ARE THE ONE CLINGING TO THE 3 TD GAME AMONG ALL THE OTHER POINTS OF REFERENCE. Lamar has had much better games, than just about any of JA's better games this year. JA's worst games are worse than just about all of Lamar's worst games this year. Lamar, has also been much more constant than JA in 2019. LJ will most likely win MVP this year. These are all part of the answer as to why nobody is going to call Lamar Jackson terrible after throwing a single INT (that resulted in 0 points) in a W where he also threw 3 other TD's. I have no idea what the hell you are trying to rally behind, or what point you are trying to prove. This just feels like arguing for the sake of arguing. What do you think the reasons are?

The original question I responded to was about why people aren't flaming over Lamar's 3 TD day, in an offense that begins and ends with his production both through the air and on the ground. If you think its stupid or some media conspiracy for fake news, go right ahead, but that is why Lamar isn't being ripped apart for a single INT yesterday. You don't have to like it, but that is why.

I mean, did you read what he was quoting. Feels like this board is more mellow about criticism of JA after this loss. I suspect it is because the last few weeks have been much better. That said, Watson has had more moments where he has played much better than JA. He also has a larger sample size. Allen has had more moments where he has looked much worse than Watson. Hopefully that is the answer you were looking for.

I listed a bunch of reasons why LJ isn't being judged the same way as Josh. You chose just one....And yes throwing 3 TD's against 1 turn over in a win, will garner you less criticism than 1 TD and 1 turn over. I am unsure if you actually don't understand that or just don't want to except it.