Mango

Are there actual people that think Kelly was better than Marino? He is easily the greatest QB without a ring and retired like 20 years ago.

I would feel better about it if there was say, some sort of NFL sanctioned pre-declaration seminar. Where regional scouts, GM's, coaches, whoever, from NFL teams just sit down with some of these kids and say "Hey, love the skill set you are building. Love that you want to take it to the next level. We have a 7th round grade on you. There is a a 85% chance you don't make a roster right now and your career is over with no degree. You want to prove to us how hungry you are to play at the next level. Wow us next season. Your footwork/route running/ flexibility blows. Make sure next year when we have this conversation those things aren't an issue and I tell you I hope you are still on the board on day 2 when our pick comes around". It could be like an old folks home for retired GM's, or guys who just aren't working in the league anymore. What is Polian, Gill Brandt, Whaley, Pat Kirwin etc. really doing these days? I am sure they are still watching tons of tape and could definitely get behind doing regional college scouting.

Whoops, I meant RS sophomores or true juniors.Good catch. Either way leaving school and risking your college degree/another year of eligibility when you are projected to be a low round pick (and have MAYBE a 50% chance of making a team) or becoming an UDFA (and have an even smaller chance of making the team) is a really bad idea. There is no amount of legislation from the NCAA or NFL that will change that.

Yes he red shirted his freshman year, but he also got a degree and graduated in 4. Good point though. I think I would be OK for going back for your final year of eligibility if you had a degree in hand. I was more thinking of true sophomores and juniors.

I agree. It doesn't hurt anything by allowing it. But it probably changes who actually gets drafted by 0% so it doesn't hurt by keeping it either. The inverse situation. You are a junior with a low draft grade so you roll the dice. You get scooped up in the 6th round. Chances are you don't actually make the roster. Now you are also ineligible to play college ball and you are right back where you started. This rule doesn't actually effect anybody getting drafted in the first 3 or 4 rounds.

I mean sure I am with you...I guess. I just think there a few to zero students that this applies to.

Jim Harbuagh thinks the NFL should remove the minimum age/college requirement to enter the draft as well as allow undrafted kids to go back and play for their school. Removing minimum age/college requirement: I don't really care. I mean I wish there was more emphasis on getting degrees, but it really is not the NFL's job to push that, so remove it for all I care. From a physiological stand point, it is a violent game played by grown men. Seems like a bad idea to throw a 19 year old in the NFL. That said, if you have a 3rd round grade or better, and you want to leave school to go give it a try, that is up to you. There is a chance you make a life changing amount of money you may never get back if you get injured or stop progressing. Undrafted kids going back to school: This feels like a non-issue to me. My feels sensor says almost all UDFA's are seniors. I couldn't find a good list so I just went through Arizona's UDFA list and they were all seniors, as I expected. It is not like these guys have no idea what their draft grades are before they declare. Seems really unnecessary to allow athletes to declare and go back to school and is probably in the institutions favor and not the athletes. I am unsure what it provides. It isn't like there are a bunch of sophomore's with a 3rd round grade declares and wakes up needing to apply for student loans and no football team to play for. Just spit balling here, but maybe the NFL/NCAA sponsors a program for all college kids with NFL scouts, coaches, and GM's to provide some insight into when and if they should declare for the draft as underclassmen. I wouldn't trust an agent to do that just because they are chasing a paycheck. But the regional scout for an NFL team might tell an anxious underclassman to stay in school, they only see them as a 6th rounder. https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29146934/michigan-coach-jim-harbaugh-wants-college-football-players-flexibility-nfl-draft?platform=amp

It is the offseason and we are all locked inside so I will stoke the fire a bit.... Josh has gone 27 starts in the NFL since he entered the league, without a 300 yard game. There are only 4 players since 2000 who have started their career and gone longer to throw for 300. -Player Name (First 300 yard game) - David Garrard (40th start) - Alex Smith (36th start) -Tyrod Taylor (29th start) - Trent Edwards (33 starts and no 300 yard game)- No other player has been given so many starts (since 2000) without EVER having a 300 yard game in their career than Trent Edwards. He retired with 0. I will just hide over here in my bunker while everybody yells at me.

I sort of agree. I would put the Titans in a toss up a lot depends on Tannehill capturing the same magic/efficiency. I also think that applies to Pitt. Bills had a good defensive game, but a not 3rd string QB and there is a chance it goes the other way. A lot depends on Big Ben. I am 65% we sweep the Jets. I have a hard time writing of a Greggo defense and we had trouble beating them week 1 last year. I am guessing the Bills are a better team, but with a harder schedule will probably match or go 9-7 compared to last year. I think the defense takes a bit of a hit. I am trying to dig it up, I posted it over the winter. I broke down our defense vs. each QBs average passer rating in the league and their performance vs us against their average QBR for the season. If I recall correctly top half QB's had better than season average days against us, bottom half had below average days against us. There may be some concern going against Wilson, Mahomes, Garapolo, Big Ben. We should be fine against Stidham, Tyrod, Fitz/Tua. I am guessing Darnold has one good day and one bad day. I would probably put him in a toss up category with Tannehill, Carr, Goff, and Murray.

Agreed. Plus you add Gronk. Their defense was good last year and their offense was electric (when Winston wasn’t turning the ball over)

It is a pretty easy primtime schedule. with Arians/Brady on offense and if their defense can have another good year, they will get a bunch of hype nationally because of it. I would be surprised if they don't come out of that 4-1 on national TV. Week 5- Thurs- @ Bears Week 7- Sunday- @ Raiders Week 8- Monday- @ Giants Week 9- Sunday- vs. Saints Week 11-Sunday- vs. Rams

I am aware of how the transition tag works, that is why I said it doesn’t make sense to use it when you can guarantee that 5th year for the same exact amount of money with no danger or matching. The franchise doesn’t make any sense in this scenario because by the time the situation arises for a 5th year, it will cost the team an extra $10M minimum to apply it. You can avoid all that mess by just applying the 5th year option, assuming Allen shows even incremental growth/the wheels don’t fall off.

I cannot believe this guy recovery. His wife posted this video on his birthday to show how far he has come. Pretty remarkable he is able to move that way given the extent of his injury. Mods- Thought this might be worth its own conversation. Feel free to merge with either two Alex Smith threads from this weekend.

Huh, this is a wild take.....I partake in the herb on occasion, worked from home pre-pandemic (so no change for me), and don't get tested for pot. It has literally never been an issue. Also from the pro-athlete perspective, I lived at the Olympic Training Center for a few years. Pot is only a banned substance in competition, so again, there are just a few weeks per year where you need to test clean. It was literally never an issue for anybody, and yes a very large portion of Olympians smoke, vape, eat edibles, etc. regularly during the year. This is the way it works for a huge portion of the population, professional athlete or not. I have experience in both. For example, Phelps was suspended from competition for 3 months by USA Swimming not FINA for "Code of Conduct Policy". Not for breaking any FINA, WADA, or USADA rules. Just don't have it end up on social media, ,and there is no rules broken or detriment to training. If it were some alternate on the US squash team there probably would not have even been a suspension. Then again, no 20 year old college kid would have taken that video and had it gone viral either.

This is a good point, why commit yourself financially if you don't have to. Again, I think Allen gets 5 years on the roster to prove he either is or is not the guy. I have been critical of his passing, but he has shown enough improvement currently to get that year. Even if he only shows incremental improvements over the next two years, they will give him part or all of his 5th year to take a huge step as a passer. And if that happens, there will be somebody on the bench ready to step in if he doesn't at that point. But probably not before then. In regards to the difference between a 5th year and Transition tag, I believe the Transition tag is similar to being an RFA. Where the Bills have the right of first refusal. Just an example, Jacksonville in 2 years offers Allen 3 years at 30M/Y, because they still blow and their new HC thinks they can make something work. Buffalo can match or decline and lose him. Which they probably would in the above scenario because they are waiting for him to "prove it". Where as the 5th year option, he has to be a Buffalo Bill in year 5 baring a trade or cut. After that both can re sign or walk away without an issue.

He’s a top 10 pick, the 5th year option is the same as the transition tag. Why use one and not the other? It’s about $24M. He’ll have to go full Trubisky/Bortles to not get his 5th year option with this FO. Right or wrong, I think they are all in on 5 years with the kid even if he flat lines or shows incremental improvement. Which is fine with me because he has shown he can get better. And I say that as a guy who also thinks the current version of Josh Allen is a pretty bad passer of the football. Edit: Let me rephrase. He’ll get 5 years in a Bills uniform. I can’t see them not taking it after this year barring catastrophic failure. They may head into year 5 with a fail safe and Allen could get yanked.

Add Lofton and that roster has 5 HoFers in it. I think Bruce and Thurman translate best to today’s game.l and would be absolute studs in 2018. Andre is a close 3rd. QB/Kelly is a tough one because of how the position is played these days, could go either way. Now Marino. He’d be an absolute stud in 2020. The only guys on the 2020 roster who might even consider projecting in the hall right now are probably Tre and Diggs. I’ll take 91 all day.

I was more responding to the question as to how could the pats secondary be rated higher. The Bills are a very good unit without a lot of very good individuals. Based on the “metrics” of the rankings. It’s basically starting 5 with plus flex player. The Pats are loaded in the secondary. The Bills have one great CB, a very good safety tandem, and the rest are meh-ish. It makes them a high level unit but not really close to be ranked over NE. Who had 6 players in the top 50 for all DB’s regardless of position in the backfield. Simply, I would rate NE’s secondary well above Buffalo’s right now based on both top end talent and depth. I’m not arguing that as a unit they are bad.

I think Allen has to fall off a cliff to not get his 5th year, as he probably should. I say that as a guy who has been critical of him at times. That said, if Allen doesn’t show another large leap in his consistency and effectiveness from the pocket, the staff will find somebody else to give it a go. It isn’t one year, it is two. Allen is headed into his third season. Buffalo will have to make the decision before he starts his 4th.

The Bills as an overall team had the 5th lowest QBR in the league defensively. But to @thebandit27 point below. Only 1 other player not on the Patriots from the AFCE make the top 40, and you get to 48 before you find Maulett from the NYJ. The Bills lack db depth. Wallace has been inconsistant, Johnson needs to stay healthy. Gaines needs to stay healthy. Norman needs to return to form. If they all end up on the positive side of "what if" then they will be a great unit. If they don't they will still be a single star player and a bunch of meh enhanced by a solid DC/HC combo.

Agreed. Buffalo could turn out to be just as good or better. But there are a lot of "what ifs". Tre is great, but who knows what we get from Gordon. Does Gaines stay healthy and return to form? Wallace has been up and down at times. Johnson needs to stay healthy. Outside of Tre, there are a lot of questions that could rightfully make us very good or very mediocre.

It wouldn’t have increased any return but it would have helped our dead cap situation.

Star does have everything to do with it because the trade itself was terrible cap management and largely responsible for our “cap he’ll. Waiting 16 games would have halved our dead cap space. But we traded MD and needed a replacement. So we were then in the whole for more than if we just kept Dareus and probably got less production that year. It’s the entire reason I disliked the trade. Darby’s 2 years in was better than Harry has played. And that’s not a knock on Harry at all. Unfortunately RD’s time was injury plagued in Philly. Hopefully he bounces back, we shall see. Largely he was traded because he was a man to man corner and McD loves to play zone.

I didn’t hate the trade as much as I hated the timing of it. The Dareus trade plus Star signing was a huge part of our “cap he’ll”. Had they waited until the end of the season we could have cut his dead money in half. Instead we traded him away and signed Star to an inflated contract. We ended up having a larger cap hit with dead money + Star than if we would have just kept him one more season. Dareus seems to continue to regress but I think we also get more out of MD that year than we got out of Star. I also didn’t like the Darby trade. Jordan Matthews was a dud. We all like Harry (picked with the 3rd in the trade) but we really don’t have any idea what his career will be like at this point, and so far is off to a lesser start than Darby did. Even pre draft we weren’t sure if we would take a CB in the first 2 days because we are lacking depth and a ton of question marks around Norman having much tread in the tires. Still chasing his replacement.

This is homer-ism at its finest. Even most national pundits are expecting improved things from the Bills. But to answer your question, yes. Even this year Cam Newton is trashed all the time. Trubinsky is on his last leg in Chicago. Chad Kelly gets pooped on. Everybody thought Ryan Mallet was on meth Ryan Leaf...woof. Even in his own draft class, Baker Mayfield creates a crap storm around him. JOSH ALLEN IS NOT A MARTYR Edit: add Alex Smith and Kirk Cousins to the list.