Mango

Situationally things change. But largely I agree with Warner in this one. My biggest complaints with Allen have been late to throw and ball placement. I can’t disagree with much KW has to say here.

I’ve gotten the all 22 in years past and I’m debating going in for it this year based on current struggles. That clip is frustrating from an OC and OL standpoint. Anybody smarter than me know if shotgun was helping or hurting this game? The clip here has both ends coming off the line fast. In a vacuum it seems like a 5 step drop out of shotgun when your OT’s are trying to guide the DE’s past the QB isn’t great from the get go. But I don’t know if that was what was happening all game.

This is a good enough comment to warrant another thread entirely. I’ve noticed over the last few seasons as well. We telegraph the run a lot based on formation. Josh telegraphs the hand off as well. Via the eye test (no data), we rarely pass with a QB behind center. I think this tends to make life more difficult for our OL and the run game.

This is what I came to say. Ike could have helped before getting to the LB, but I also think Dawkins is having a rough go and can make that play last year. With all the talk about our interior line, both tackles blew it here I think.

This, I would love to see us try and get outside more. We have a knack for just sort of: 1. Pounding the ball at a wall of people between the tackles (success or skill be damned) 2. Taking guys who are either decent receiving threats and/or have some outside speed, and just not dressing them at all so that we can rinse and repeat no. 1,

I meant dig and the receiver coming across the field. A safety will absolutely creep up if he reads the play coming across his face. Regarding the screen. in a general sense, I agree that the OL is not athletic enough to pull or get outside. In some cases Allen needs to fire the ball out quickly to counteract the pressure. In others he has to hold the defense back to give his WR some room to work. Peyton was just talking about this a few weeks ago in regards to a bad game Mahomes was having, and a criticism. He didn't hold the defense off before throwing the screen. He also mentioned it as an improvement as the game went on.

Adding on here post edit. I think Allen is smart. I also think Allen is making the right pre-snap read more often than not. But I also think he telegraphs a lot. I have criticized our screen game quite a bit. We have been using them more, but they are hard earned yards by the WR or RB because it tends to be snap, stare/wait, throw. The ball catcher on our screens are running through a ton of traffic a lot. Or in some cases, Allen might have the right read on Diggs on the crosser at the line, which is awesome. But he is watching Diggs the whole time to make his break. I would like to see Allen in that situation follow Sanders running the post above him to keep the safety away from Diggs to give himself an easier throw. Allen makes throws that nobody else in the league can. But some of that feels self inflicted. Some of this feels like a "we don't have the right kind of receivers for our QB to do X- thing" Which feels frustrating after signing our guy to a big contract. I think Allen is easily good enough to be our guy forever, but he is still on his learning curve, and has been frustrating this season.

This is my thought as well. I think back to some of those Gailey/Fitz lines that seemed worse than this one. Or at least covered up better. Demetrius Bell and Chris Hairston weren't beating anybody one on one. But we did a good job of getting the ball out quickly and spreading the field. I don't think Allen or the offense has played well. Part of it is execution on Allen. Some is on the OL. Some is on Daboll.

The post I was also responding to was using next gen to say Josh was taking the short and QUICK throwing. He wasn't quick, and he rarely ever is. I agree, Josh's style is a pro but also a con at times. I actually don't mind that he holds the ball longer than other QB's because he does have the ability to extend plays. Hard disagree that implication that Allen's TT metric is because of a couple long scrambles otherwise his game was hit the back foot of his drop and let it go. To your comment about reading long to short. It is great when he reads long to short and he can make it work. But sometimes he has to read from short to long because that is what the game or his protection dictates. Josh can get away with what he does more often because he is bigger, stronger, better. But sometimes that isn't enough. I will give you the rolls out unnecessarily to an extent in that I understand it, but don't condone it. But facing and looking at an open guy on the most critical play of the game, and deciding to try to thread the needle to the moving and covered receiver has nothing to do with the OL.

The final 4th down play is on Allen not the OL. Some plays are JA17's fault, others are not.

I agree. The OL is not great. I also think that has gotten into his head, but maybe too much. I don't think it is "the worst" but it is most certainly not "the best". This grouping was at least adequate last year so I am really hesitant to call them any sort of embarrassment(maybe not you) like to claim. Make no bones about it. Saying Allen was bad doesn't necessarily mean that the OL or Daboll was good. It just means Allen was bad. My biggest frustration with Allen Sunday can probably be summarized in one play, the final offensive play of the game. Protection is fine. Allen gets a little jittery at the RT shuffling. He rolls right. Has Emmanuel Sanders open at the first down marker, but decides to try and thread the needle to a crossing and covered Diggs. It was right there for the taking! Allen gets away with a lot because he is just better than everybody else. But sometimes he has to play like he is not. (If that makes any sense)

This isn't a pie. The OL, Allen, Daboll, etc. can all be to blame. Just because Allen or the OL or Daboll screw up, doesn't mean it necessarily shifts or exonerates other parties.

Hoping this merges my above reply. Josh held the ball for as long as almost anybody in the league this past week. He has done this for almost his entire career.

You are confusing short with quick. Josh held the ball for 3.12 seconds per throw last week (about average for him). That was good enough for third longest behind Darnold and Prescott. The only other players above 3 are Siemian and Brisset this week. He was also pretty low on intended air yards this week. Josh had a bad go. Some of that is on the OL. A lot of it is in Josh too.

Oh jeez, if we drafted DK, some guys here would send out a physical search party to go look for Gabe Davis.

I have been one to mention the DL. I don’t think they are bad at all. But I think we are way over invested compared to our current return.

Allen has improved way more than I ever thought he would. He is now one of the better QB’s in the league. He’s elite, but elite at what he does. Allens next step has got to be learning how to change his style to the game he’s playing. If Allen wants to have some longevity and be the player we think he can be, he’ll have to learn to move the defense better with his eyes. And he has to get the ball out quicker. He holds on to the ball longer than almost every QB in the league. Lots of problems with the offense right now. I have some issue with Beane and Daboll, but Allen belongs in that conversation too.

Maybe losing to Steelers Titans Jags will turn the season around like (insert game in different season)

My better half knows something about that... ayyyooooo

Tell me you never competed in sports outside of high school without telling me you never competed in serious sports outside of high school. Releasing a player mid year after a loss to prove a point is a terrible idea, especially with a pretty healthy locker room. This is something Gruden would do.

I think it’s more telegraphing. Allen has to do a better job of holding the LB or safeties with his eyes. To Allen’s credit I think he knows where he “should” go with the ball most of the time. But he makes life harder for him and the receivers. The right read might be Diggs on a crosser, but he can’t watch Diggs and wait for him to get a step or make his cut. He needs to look at the back in the flat to hold the LB. Or follow Sanders on the post to keep the safety high. When he makes the throw to Diggs, it’s a great throw and a great catch. But he made the job harder on everybody. The the easiest example is our screen game (which I also blame on Daboll). It’s snap. Stare at the WR in the flat. Throw. If he could look down field for a split second to pause the defense, guys wouldn’t be fighting through traffic.

If anybody is watching the KC game, the difference between the GB OL with Rodgers vs. Love is something we should keep in mind with Allen’s play today and his protection.

I don’t think it’s that we don’t call them necessarily. I mean, we don’t call much with Allen behind center which changes some things too, but I really think Allen is looking for the next big play. He’s got to stop playing with a TD in mind and has to start just playing for the first down, or the next next first down. Keep us in 3rd and manageable. Take the first rather than the home run.

Right, I agree to a certain extent, but let’s take it a step further. The OL is one of the highest paid units in the league. Our DL is the same. Or LB Corp will be next year. So, like, where and how to we fix that? The FO has heavily invested in both lines, we are tight(ish) against the cap, but our heaviest investments are underperforming. So what’s the solution other than “fix it”

Mine goes to Josh Allen.