Mango
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Posts posted by Mango
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1 minute ago, Brand J said:
I never bought into him being the best. I thought he was probably the purest and craftiest route runner, but he never had physical attributes a defense had to fear - size (average), speed (above average), hands (excellent?).
He’s a high level possession receiver and should’ve received a 2 year pay raise - not one for almost $100M - given his age and malcontent history.
The issue is his restructure. It doesn’t give the team any bit of leverage. Without it we could move on this year. -
1 hour ago, Warcodered said:
It did seem different from previous ones he seemed angry in his postgame like not overtly but like underneath the surface.
The end of the year presser definitely seemed locked in sounded like he was frustrated that he had to not practice right now. But it's offseason now and he has to take a break, but he doesn't want to lose how well the ball is coming out and clearly wants to get back to it. Definitely could pick up bits in pieces from it like it sounded like he'll be involved with working with his playmakers in the offseason, though he also seemed to have to note around the same time about the pieces not being set. Though he definitely identified a group at the end I wouldn't be surprised he's keyed in on.
The other thing is we’ve had him say “heal up from the bumps and bruises then work on somethings”.
But today he was all about getting right back to work when there are a lot of rumors swirling about an AC joint AND rotator cuff injury to his throwing shoulder.
If we can protect him and get a nice rookie piece or two at WR, we could see a huge tear from Josh in 24.
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Just now, RiotAct said:
More like 99/1
The only way Allen is done in Buffalo is if his arm gives out on him a la Kelly.
Granted he has had a couple of injuries to his throwing arm pretty early in his career. But he is not asking for a trade because he hates McD and Co.
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5 hours ago, WNYFAN1 said:
This is the major problem with this team. Far too much cap space devoted to players that contribute at a level far below their cap number would warrant.
Now that the QB contract has really kicked in, you can't get away without cap efficiency. Bills are the opposite of cap-efficient. This is really difficult to overcome.
This is precisely why I am pro going very conservative in 2024. Any major restructure to clear space is just destroying our cap efficiency. Outside of discontent it is my biggest reason for me advocating moving on from Diggs for the extra $3M pre June 2024 rather than 2025.
My one quibble on this is moving on from Knox. It doesn't really provide any relief or any value. I think he could maybe be prime for an extension after 24/25 to lower his cap hit with a lesser value. Dawson will have to decide if he still wants to be apart of this for the future as a secondary TE option on passing downs or does he want to take more money to be a primary elsewhere. I think he stays.EDIT: Speak of the devil. I just found this from Knox after the game.
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I like Lamar the QB. What a talent. I am over KC, Mahomes, and Travis Swift.
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5 minutes ago, Warcodered said:
I think the cap issue is somewhat overblown the number will go up by a big amount again and Bean is a wizard, not to mention if there is anything can do to help he's going to do it, within reason obviously. Defense could still be great if we stick with McDermott calling plays getting Milano and Benford back for year 2 with a whole offseason together. Also another offseason for Williams to develop, also I'm just not as worried about McDermott finding ways to fill in the gaps in the secondary White will also be back.
Another leap, what's he going to start levitating and shooting lasers out of his eyes?
I think they can get through it this year and basically do whatever they want. But my thing is at what cost?
I would rather reset it and move on from hefty vet salaries.-
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2 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:
Yep I get it but from a leadership standpoint if Josh really focused in this summer and worked out like crazy he would set the standard for the team. When the team sees him out golfing they probably think well he's not working out maybe I don't have to either
I have been hard on Josh's post season, film, and decision making. But he seemed much different the back end of this year.
One notable mention was that he directly said "I am anxious to get back into the lab and start working". Normally we hear "Gonna let the body heal" or "I will take some time to decompress from this" or "We will work on some things this offseason".
But this was much more along the lines of "lets get back to work".-
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1 minute ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:
What about when the defense was much healthier 2 years ago and McD's D gave up 42 to the Chiefs? The year before that when they gave up 38? And lets be honest, the Chiefs put the brakes on in that game because it was over. They could've put up 50 that night.
What about it 2 years ago? We blew it.
Last year we were paper tigers on both sides of the ball.
For the most part I was higher on this team at the back end of the year than either of those other two. This one hurt, but this wasn't a "McDermott was protecting his precious defense" game. The defense was a seiv and needed to be kept off the field,
Mahomes and co. didn't win by 4 because they took their foot off the gas. They lost by 4 because the Bills kept their possessions to a minimum with long sustained drives. I am confident that Buffalo wins that game fairly easily with a healthy Milano, Bernard, and Douglas.-
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I would protect the 2025 cap number as much as I possibly can and use 2024 as a mini-reset. Get kids in the building in 2024 that can take a leap in 2025. No need to try and mortgage the future to try and hold this together with elmers glue. The ship can stay afloat without it, and will be a better version for it if they weather the storm.
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Just now, HomeskillitMoorman said:
I think so too about offense...but we know the script if McD's still here. The offense will once again have to be perfect for multiple postseason games to win in spite of McD's defense getting lit up, which we KNOW will happen in big games and his in-game managing. It's a bad recipe and probably not possible.
McDermott or not McDermott, we have no money and we have to get some quality rookies high in the draft this year. Next year the offense will have to ball.
That said, for the 2024 playoffs, that defense was a mash unit. We are rolling out with backups/injured players at nearly every back 7 position. And not just backups, guys that were 4/5 on the depth chart at their position. It was brutal.-
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2 minutes ago, Warcodered said:
Kincaid, Shakir, hopefully a healthy Diggs, and a rookie WR/who they bring in no way they don't do something. Allen seemed locked in on those skill guys in the press conference his frustration is extreme. Plus continuity on an O-Line that actually performed well, I wouldn't be surprised if the offense was very good next season.
I think they will have to be. I really believe we have to take a half step back and refuel for a very aggressive 2025. If we time it right we should be able to open another $65M in 2025 cap dollars by moving on from Diggs, Miller, and Tre while an offensive focused draft comes into its second season.
But that means we are winning a lot of games because we score a lot of points. The plus side is we should have enough room ($$$) to keep that group together for a very long time, with enough left over to make a couple big signings on the other side of the ball.-
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Odd to me that all we have is live interviews with Allen and Dawkins at this point.
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6 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:
I’d pick up the 5th year option on the guy. He’s flashed at moments, feel like he might end up like Oliver and have a real breakout in a year or two. We need some edge rushers in their prime versus just starting over in the draft only.
I think we will get a better idea of his value next year. Floyd had a great year opposite him. He will likely have a lesser partner next year and will have to take a big step. If he makes that step you pay him. If he is still just a guy, then you have a tougher call on his value.
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Gabe's value on his rookie contract was great for us. Let him go get an Edmunds contract. He was a good teammate and provided some value to this team. He just proved he wasn't "the guy".
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9 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:
Not sure about Diggs but a cap reset of sorts is probably needed. So if they can offload a big one I think they have to consider it. At this point, the Knox contract is one that seems like one we can do without, I don't hate the guy or anything but the 2 TE thing never took off and that is a lot of money for a backup TE and we don't need Knox taking any of Kincaid's targets.
Totally agree. I would protect the 2025 cap space however possible. To me that means either keeping Diggs all year or moving on before June 1.
We need one of not two wide receivers, a center, two safeties, and a couple of pass rushers. Clear the deck where we can, load up in the draft, and be aggressive in 2025.
EDIT: For reference, the timing of releasing Tre, Von, and Diggs would open up $65M in space for 2025.
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1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:
I think that the Bills best option would be to trade him post 6/1. Let draft and FA play out and teams get their rosters set. Then wait for the eventual catastrophic injury to a stud WR on a contender. Then you might get a second out of them.
Notably Diggs’ salary becomes guaranteed at the start of the league year but he doesn’t have a roster bonus. The team trading for him could do a restructure to fit him under their cap. One snafu is if the Bills restructure his contract early in the off-season to macerate cap space. His trade value would increase, but we’d be on the hook for his salary and associated cap hit.
I don't think his cap hit is prohibitive in a trade. In that scenario Diggs $18M-ish next year puts him at 15th overall between Ceedee Lamb and Justin Jefferson with the freedom to walk away. I think that would be good value for a team with a young QB and a lot of cap space.
If this team wants to move on from Diggs I think they can and even get 'some' return on it if they want. -
10 minutes ago, Big Turk said:
Fvck no. What the hell is a 2nd round pick going to do for us? Take on 31 million in dead cap for a 2nd? You must have lost your mind.
The delta in keeping Diggs vs cutting/trading Diggs is $3M. That is an important distinction to make.
1 minute ago, Big Turk said:He will put up another 1000 yard+ season next year here. Who do you plan on replacing him with? Signing Mike Evans to a $25 million dollar a year contract?
I generally agree here. When you cut a guy, you have to replace him. But Diggs has had the ability to be a distraction.
I wouldn't be quick to pull the trigger on this one. But I also don't fall into the "fork no" category either. Both seem to have some cost and some benefit. It all depends on what kind of Stef we get back next year? Do we get this seasons teammate that was a good soldier. Or do we get the Bengals/OTA Stef. If it is the ladder you pull the trigger. If it is the former you ride this out another year.-
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1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:
Trading Diggs prior to 6/1 would increase his cap hit from $27.9M to $31.1M. We are at a point where it is possible to do this - albeit very painful and unlikely. I do not see another team trading a second round pick (especially in this draft which is loaded with WR talent) and paying Diggs $18.8M for the season. Not when Diggs turns 31 in November.
I think we are stuck with him one more season and then he gets designated a 6/1 cut the following offseason. But to the OP’s question - hell, yes, I’d move him for a 2 and take the cap hit.
I think the one thing that makes Diggs an OK trade candidate is that they can risk his cost for the season. But I believe the receiving team can move on from Diggs without any real cap ramification because all that is left is his base salary, roster bonus, etc. Buffalo eats the rest.
A team like Houston or Indy could take this risk to help out a rookie QB. If it doesn't work out they move on the following offseason for basically nothing. If he does work out he is certainly worth his cap hit.
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I just posted this in the other Diggs thread but it works here:
If Diggs can find a way to be reasonably productive this year without causing a scene, the Bills should hold off on moving on and keep the $3M cost savings by keeping him here.Some interesting numbers in relation to Diggs cap. For reference red is bad. But his contract is absolutely workable this offseason if all parties NEED to walk away from each other. People freak out over the $31M as if it is in addition to. The post June 2024 number is interesting, and I think it could make Stef a post June trade candidate this year.
2024 Pre June: -$3M (+$22M in 2025)
2024 Post June: $19M (-$22M in 2025)
2025 Pre June: $5M ($28M in 2026)
2025 Post June: $18.5M (-13M in 2026)
There is zero place where discussing restructuring Diggs makes any sense. It should be removed from every single discussion of the Bills cap space from here on out. It didn't make sense 3 months ago and it makes much less sense today.-
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If Diggs can find a way to be reasonably productive this year without causing a scene, the Bills should hold off on moving on and keep the $3M cost savings by keeping him here.
Some interesting numbers in relation to Diggs cap. For reference red is bad. But his contract is absolutely workable this offseason if all parties NEED to walk away from each other. People freak out over the $31M as if it is in addition to. The post June 2024 number is interesting, and I think it could make Stef a post June trade candidate this year.
2024 Pre June: -$3M (+$22M in 2025)
2024 Post June: $19M (-$22M in 2025)
2025 Pre June: $5M ($28M in 2026)
2025 Post June: $18.5M (-13M in 2026)
EDIT: There is zero place where discussing restructuring Diggs makes any sense. It should be removed from every single discussion of the Bills cap space from here on out. It didn't make sense 3 months ago and it makes much less sense today.-
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A 100% healthy Milano, Bernard, Tre, and Douglas absolutely win that game last night by some margin.
(I know we don't make the Douglas trade if Tre is healthy. But right now they are both on the roster. Let me have this one today)-
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2 minutes ago, Aimee75 said:
This.
I mean, we were at what, the 30 yard line? We aren't going to be able to kill off that much clock when you are that close. I guess if you keep executing 5 yard runs for a span of 2 minutes. There was a TD for the taking, so I don't think you turn that down. MHO anyway.
And even then, TD for the taking for the lead or risk not getting a TD and get screwed in OT because the defense is a spaghetti strainer.
Take the lead.
But yes in a perfect/bizarro world, the Bills score a TD as the clock strikes zero.-
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3 minutes ago, Logic said:
This is where I'm at.
The Chiefs have an excellent red zone defense. There's absolutely NO guarantee that if you extend the drive on a hypothetical Diggs 1st down, that you'll have another shot at a touchdown as open as the Shakir route was.
The Chiefs had also done an excellent job limiting explosive plays by the Bills all night -- 0 plays over 20 yards.
So now, a receiver open in the end zone on an explosive play for a go-ahead touchdown -- how do you pass that up to go for a 4-10 yard completion instead, just based on the ASSUMPTION that you'll still be able to ultimately score a touchdown?
In a vacuum, you can sit there and say "well, the smart play is to bleed more clock, continue the drive, take it down to almost no time, AND THEN score". But again, there's absolutely no guarantee that you're still going to get that opportunity.
It's just hard for me to fault Allen for taking a shot to an open player in the end zone -- which, make no mistake, would likely have been completed had it not been for Dawkins getting walked into the QB -- for six, when the alternative would've been a mere 1st down and then hoping/assuming that you'll still be able to score a TD.
If an explosive play for a touchdown is there against an elite defense to put you ahead with under two minutes left, you take it. That's where I'm at. Execution is what doomed the play, but I'm okay with the decision itself, because football isn't played in a vacuum.Totally agree, and for years I have pounded the table loudly on this forum that "Josh should have done this and instead of that".
He was an absolute hero last night and I have zero criticisms for his game yesterday.-
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1 hour ago, klos63 said:
Actually I think the injuries were a pretty good excuse. Our MLB shouldn't even be in the NFL, no team wanted him. Losing 2 great mlb, Douglass didn't look 100%, obviously missed Benford, Von not close to 100%. Injuries were significant. Rapp out was significant as Hyde and Poyer are finished.
Agreed here. We were struggling against an opponent we were ultimate better than. A healthy Bernard and Douglass is likely worth a punt or two and we are talking about a Bills 2 score victory today.
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Key notes from players on locker room cleaning day (here is what you need to know)
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
I’ve been wanting to take a step back from the cap ledge for a few seasons just to give us more flexibility.
I disliked Diggs restructure after his schtick to end last season and OTA’s. I thought Von was a huge risk when we signed him and his restructure was bonkers.
Of course it made some room to sign other players. But every time we do this we need to make bigger decisions a year or two down the line. It’s certainly a cost v reward that is catching up to us.