Mango

He is playing well, and I am super pleased with his progress. But maybe we pump the brakes on the "on another level". Most of his time on the field the first two weeks was clean up duty when the game was won. And the last two weeks were Tua's 18 drop backs and the super rainy Baltimore game. He can certainly become a stud. But maybe we wait for a little bit larger sample size.

I agree. I am just going off the injury report the way it stands now.

This might....miiiiiiggggght be a good came to take Pittsburgh to cover? Occasionally back ups/rookies can come in without tape and make things happen. -14 is a lot, Pittsburgh isn't good. But if there is one game they keep it close with us, it might be this one?

The guy can’t even get through practice as a back up to the back ups without going on IR. He won’t practice for another month. At which point we’ll have Tre, Dane, and Elam. Elam is the press man sub at that point. Tre isn’t coming off the field in an important goal line situation. He was a fine pick up for what we needed given the injuries. Until he wasn’t when he got hurt again. By the time he’s ready he will be an emergency rotational player.

Rhodes is likely CB5 when this roster is healthy and 4 while Benford heals up and Tre is back.

I know that’s the case. But there is a Dibellas I go to in Albany and it sucks. Their “Buffalo Chicken Sub” is chopped grilled chicken. It’s really weird. Buffalo Dibellas is fine thoug.

Its only a reasonable alternate if you ignore the replay. The goal of the evaluation should be to determine if the symptoms could be a product of a concussion. If so, you get pulled. You can’t risk messing with your brain. The goal shouldn’t be alternative differentials to explain why it isn’t a concussion.

The thing is that an EMT at the OP vs. West Seneca JV game wouldn't OK that person to return to the game. If Tua started to lecture about string theory it wouldn't matter. The evidence on the field alone is enough to keep a pop warner kid off the field. I likely wouldn't be allowed to return for another shift in my bar league hockey game. In order for Tua to return you have to throw out evidence and/or be willing to explain it via something else.

I do not believe we have a copy of the report from the exam. This is likely part of what the NFLPA is reviewing. I suspect the reports reads with "(List of symptoms) Due to past medical history, symptoms can be explained by chronic spinal issues". Doctors never ever write anything concrete "The patient did not suffer a concussion." I would be floored if a report read "Patient shows no sign of a concussion". Doctors only report in terms of 1. facts and 2. to avoid liabilities when writing patient notes. The only possible way that Tua clears protocol is the presence of the team doctor to offer an alternate differential because you cannot have an island where he is "cognitive" with the neuro and the neuro see's that replay without another clinician providing an outside plausibility.

I would be curious to see the notes from the hospital last night. I have to imagine it reads something like “patient was brought in via ambulance after possibly suffering his 2nd concussion in the last few days.”

Just to be clear? if this isn’t on the league is it your ascertain that NHL players are just more honest than NFL players. Lindros, Crosby, Tim Connolly all missed an entire season or more with one concussion? Because other leagues are identifying more concussions with more extensive delays to return. Somebody posted an earlier a quote from the NFL about protocol along the lines of “we prefer a team approach to concussion evaluation with the independent neurologist and team physician because of familiarity”. I think it’s a liability fail safe to cover the neuro and play the player. In theory the team physician is there to tell the neurologist that symptoms that may be clinically insignificant should be taken into consideration. But what we see with Tua is the team physician is offering possibilities of alternative differentials. Given the replay of Tua’s first hit and his attempt to walk away there isn’t a neuro on the planet willing to clear him. Not without another clinician present providing alternatives. Given the embarrassingly low rate of games/weeks missed in the NFL compared to other sporting leagues, it’s reasonable to assume that this is happening regularly. I’d imagine that there are a lot of team docs similar to James E Woods’ character in “Any Given Sunday”

I have 3 herniations in my lumbar, 2 in my cervical, and spinal stenosis. That isn’t the way people walk when having disc issues.

The league has a system where they “prefer the the team approach” and the team physician is present because he can provide “‘more personal information”. In theory when Tua says “it’s my back” the NFL is pretending that team physicians are jumping in and going “no no mister independent neuro. He does not have a history of this. Please force him to sit” Glad he’s able to move. Just a reminder that NHL players will miss an entire season for one concussion.

I was trying to look for any movement. Looked like they folded his arms up for him and no thumbs up. Really scary.

He didn’t even give a thumbs up from the stretcher. Really tough situation.

There’s a scenario where that’s a career ender. Edit: After googling there’s a scenario where he doesn’t leave the hospital.

That is a lot of words to say “Buffalo has a harder SOS right now and aren’t even ranked number 1”

I didn't say rookies never start under McD. All those guys certainly didn't start because of "experience". Tre White was better than EJ Gaines out of the gate. Maybe they were comparable? But who was going to challenge for starting CB? Shareece Wright? What a joke Josh Allen, The guy who was the back up to Nathan Peterman coming into the season. Josh didn't start until Peterman had an abysmal Ravens game. Josh started because the only guy in his was was Nathan Peterman. The proud owner of the worst half of NFL football in the history of the league. Ed Oliver...started 7 games. He started when he was ready. Edmunds was the only serviceable MLB on the roster. He was better than Ramon Humber on day one. He didn't get the not at MLB because there was a better MLB on the roster and Edmunds needed "experience" Elam's extended run as a starter? It has been one game. The list of Kaiir Elam's starts is 1. @Miami. List over. I am taking your stance as Elam will only start because he needs experience. Sean McDermott doesn't start players for experience. He only starts players who have earned it. It is a consistent part of his ethos in building the roster. He will not start a lesser player because of their draft status or need for experience. Full stop. If your take is that Elam is the better player flat out than Jackson right now, I would disagree. But it is a topic worthy of discussion. But starting because of draft status and experience (which you cited as the reasons in your OP) isn't in this teams DNA.

My response was to the OP who said "Elam will start because he needs experience" (paraphrasing) I am saying that he won't start because he needs experience. McD has no issue keeping a rookie on the bench. As of the last game both Elam and Jackson played, Jackson was the better player. Elam will only start when he wins the job.

Right, so I can get behind that. If/when Elam is the better player he will start. It is certainly possible that happens at some point this year. This staff has made a career of sitting rookies forever in favor of vets regardless of draft position. Nobody is starting for "experience". They will only start because they are starters. I took the post as Elam starting now regardless of who is better for the purpose of experience. If OP thinks Elam will start because he is the better player right now and will start that is fine. But it isn't what was said.

We aren't benching marginally better 6th round rookie Christian Benford so that Elam can get experience. We aren't benching the player that is significantly better in Dane Jackson so that Elam can get experience. Especially without Hyde and a possibly still banged up interior DL. Elam will rotate in, but Dane Jackson isn't getting benched when Tre comes back.

Not super concerned about Benford if Dane Jackson can go on Sunday. Certainly rooting for his health, but I think the drop in Benford v Elam is likely small to negligible. Hoping this is the last week without Tre and we are playing Jackson/White on the outside at home vs. Pittsburgh. At that point Elam and Benford become depth. The reason Poyer doesn't get the credit he is due nationally is his ability to diagnose and support run plays. Those plays just don't show up on the stat sheet. He'll be a huge loss against Baltimore if he isn't ready to go.

But is that the differential the league requires? Does the report read "no evidence of concussion"? or can the report from the independent neuro's report read "Patient was pushed backwards and become unstable upon standing. Mental cognition is within the normal limits of previous evaluations. Team physician says unstable gait has appeared in the past due to ongoing spinal issues". This feels reasonable to me. I have had some health issues the last few years and have seen doctors all over the country. Many of which have written similar reports to the above. Specifically around the history of my spinal health along the lines of "Patient reports shortness of breath, lower back pain, and swollen lymph nodes. All blood work is normal. Patient states he has herniated discs in his lumbar spine and that these issues arose around the time of being covid positive. Likely long term sequalae from previous infection" While others have written reports along the line of "unlikely back pain is due to herniated discs. Swollen lymph nodes, shortness breath and back pain may be due to enlarged spleen as patient is tender to touch in the area. Referred to hematology with the recommendation of abdominal CT with contrast and excisional lymph node biopsy." I am pro doctor and pro science. But the above are two doctors with the exact same information and two totally different differentials that just happened in the last few weeks. I have had similar reports on multiple occasions, with multiple doctors, in multiple networks. It is certainly feasible that the independent contractors are able to provide a medically feasible differential outside of a concussion to avoid protocol while also protecting themselves legally.

Honest question. How can they say "The NFL prefers the team approach, especially since the team doctor knows the player well." , "If there is any disagreement it is a no-go" AND "once we make a decision the independent doctor keeps an eye on the player". (paraphrasing) I doubt the league prefers the "team approach" because a guy who might have a concussion is behaving in a clinically insignificant way and the team can step in and say "No doc! You don't understand, this is not normal for Tua. I know you were going to clear him, but you can't this is dangerous ". It is far more likely that the team rep/doctor is there to explain things that are clinically significant to the independent evaluation, but explainable by past behavior. IE. Tua is wobbling, "no sir, that is just a back issue". In fact, having another doctor to explain Tua's back issues no longer allow the evaluation to be independent. I will go a step further to say that having the team doctor present and consulting is actually there to provide legal protection to the league/team because there is another physician providing clinically plausible explanations outside of the possibility of concussion. Miami Dolphins: This guy bashed his head and was wobbling around. Couldn't even stand on his own. Doc 1: Not good. Likely concussion. Doc 2: Could it be because of his history of back issues. Doc 1: Sure. Miami Dolphins: Get back out there and win this football game Tua