GA BILLS FAN

I really hope he proves me wrong, I would like nothing more than to write an open apology on this forum when the Bills make the playoffs that says, "once he was given full authority and control, Russ Brandon proved me and a lot of others wrong by being instrumental in the turnaround of this team from a losing organization to one that is in the playoffs and on a path to be competitive in the future."

Brandon was promoted to "high level executive position" in 2006. That was 8 years ago. He was named CEO in 2009. That was 5 years ago. Jauron was hired in 2006. Jauron's contract was extended in 2008. Nix and Gailey were both hired in 2010. Not holding Brandon accountable for the performance of this team over that time period doesn't make sense to me. Who made those decisions ? If it was the 90+ year old owner, who was making the final recommendations to him ? I continue to be amazed that this guy (Brandon) gets such ardent defense from so many for what on the surface seems to be a career of utter failure and at best mediocrity.

And this has generally been the biggest argument on Brandon's behalf, that he has NOT been responsible for the on the field failures the past 14 years. While I can accept that assertion for the first part of those 14 years, Brandon was a key decision maker in FO for a good part of the past decade. As for a debate on the his performance in other areas, i.e. marketing etc. it's a non-starter -- I looked up figures that show the Bills in the bottom third in Revenue and Operating Income in 2011, 2012 and I suspect in 2013; I'm sure the retort will be that he is maximizing the top line in a small market. I'm willing to admin I'm wrong if the Bills turn things around and win this year or next. I'm hoping beyond hope that is the case.

I've always tried to take the emotion out of my debates on this forum. Sometimes it's hard to do, as you and most others can attest. When it comes to Brandon, I see overwhelming evidence of failure and little or no evidence of success when it comes to the product on the field. To prove my fairness, I've been outwardly supportive of Whaley as a GM, his first draft by all indications has been a success (although the jury is still out of EJ). His free agent signings in 2013 were good, especially Hughes and Lawson. I don't blame him for letting Levitre and Byrd walk, I think that was a Brandon/Littman decision based on budget. As for Marrone, I think his first year was good, not great, but good. I loved the Pettine hire and was mad when he left. I liked replacing him with Schwartz. I did NOT like retaining Crossman. I also give Marrone (and Whaley) some leeway because (1) they are NEW to their positions and (2) they are under certain restrictions from the FO (i.e. the training staff, Byrd, Levitre). So, debate is good, but when it comes to Brandon, I've yet to see one post that is based on facts that refutes my claim that he has been a FO failure when it comes to the only true measurable of success, WINS over the past 14 years.

I've resisted posting on this thread because, I too, was happy Russ came to the tailgate and said a few words and hung around. I also think he has lost a friend in Ralph and is grieving personally as well as professionally. However, none of that changes the fact that he has been a failure when it comes to winning games in the NFL. I'm still amazed how little it takes to satisfy some fans when it comes to this team. The Bills haven't made the playoffs in 14 years and Brandon has been a significant part of the franchise during that time period. There is only ONE measure of success in the NFL and that is winning. Until Russ does that, he will be a likable (to some) LOSER. I suppose we can debate whether he is likable or not, to me, it doesn't matter but when it comes to the later, let's face it, there is no debate. The Bills have been losers for 14 years and counting, when that changes, we can have a debate.

Agree on moving on from Byrd, however, the grade you give the Bills in free agency must include losing an All-Pro safety -- so, best grade I could give is a C+. If they would have kept Byrd and done the moves they did, I'd give them an A-

Great idea !!

No market, including Toronto is a slam dunk --- as for eyeballs, eyeballs in Canada are worth as much as they are in the U.S. --- think about it, the NFL could sign a contract with CBC or other Canadian broadcasting company --- Toronto has issues (fan support and CFL the two biggest) --- if LA doesn't get a team in the next 3 years, I'd put them ahead of Toronto in terms of risk --- I just don't like the rationalization that could be used by owners if team moved to TOR

I'll say it again, TORONTO scares me more than LA or London ! The more I think about it, the more I see the NFL rationalizing it as an extension of the Buffalo fan base and not abandoning the Buffalo market thereby satisfying whatever conscious these guys have. The two big negatives to Toronto; (1) fan support for Bills games up there was bad and (2) Conflict with the CFL. Otherwise, they have population (TV eyeballs), Money, corporations galore for suite sales and several billionaires in wait.

Here's another angle to the argument on whether the Bills will move. An NFL team in BUFFALO can make a profit. It does today. Previous threads have hashed out the cap issues and revenue sharing. To sum that up, trust me and others that making a profit gets harder as other cities build new stadiums and sell suites. Why ? Because suite sales get added to the CAP but the revenue is not shared. So, Dallas sells a suite for $32 million. The cap goes up by $500K for all teams, including the Bills. Why ? 50% of $32M is shared with players. $32M divided by 2 = $16M divided by 32 = $500K. Now, in that example, Dallas could care less, they just pocketed $32M - $500K = $31.5M profit. The Bills ? They just saw their operating cost (the cap) go up by $500K ! Given that example, a new owner will ask if he can indeed be profitable long term in Buffalo. That will depend on several factors including suite sales. It will also force that owner to run some economics. How much should I pay for a team that can make me $XM per year ? A Buffalo based owner will say $870M (or so says Forbes); an LA owner (with the potential for suite sales and higher ticket prices) might say $1.2B or more ! That brings me back to my original 3 options that WILL keep the team in Buffalo: 1- Ralph has clause in will to sell locally 2- A Buffalo based owner overpays by outbidding a California owner; i.e. Pegula is willing to pay $1.3B even though the Bills in Buffalo are only worth $870M 3- The NFL creates situation to keep team in Buffalo by blocking a new owner from relocating team or forcing estate to sell locally. I don't think #1 will happen, but we should know sooner than later. I would never bet on #3. I think #2 is possible, but a long shot.

Houston -- I was making a generalization on Buffalo's support for the team because we've all collectively spent page after page debating the very points you are bringing up -- suite sales, price of tickets etc. etc. --- the bottom line is that fan support and passion has never been a central issue with this team staying in Buffalo and I suspect never will be if fans continue to do what they've been doing --- the issue is population and income --- 2 things fans cannot control ---- Buffalo is one of the smallest markets and is also one of the most economically depressed markets in the NFL ---- none of the other 31 owners would ever utter the words "Buffalo doesn't support their team" based on the past decade --- that was my point --- like I've said, and will say again -- fan support, passion is there -- what Buffalo doesn't have is enough people and enough people with the money to buy suites ---

Weighing in on a few topics raised: 1- Bills need a new stadium if they want to remain in Buffalo long term. That doesn't mean they need to build a Jerry's World north, but a modern stadium that meets NFL standards. We can debate dome/open air, but I would prefer it in downtown Buffalo to help revitalize the city. 2- LA is the #1 potential market for an NFL franchise. It's 10X the size of Buffalo and probably 20X the amount of $$$. The NFL looks at potential in new markets, no market has more potential than LA. SD and Oakland would be easier moves with established fan bases already, but let's face it, winning creates fan bases. London is probably 2nd, but creates a host of other issues and Jacksonville is lobbying to "own" that market and potentially play 2 or more games there per year. Toronto is the easy "sell" for the NFL as they would perceive it as Buffalo-north and feel they still give Buffalo fans a team they could travel to see, WATCH OUT FOR TORONTO in this game for that reason--- Toronto scares the crap out of me !! 3- OKC is OUT because it's too close to Dallas and Jerry Jones would never support. San Antonio / Austin is actually the 15th largest TV market in the U.S. when you combine their metro areas -- Austin is only 75 miles from San Antonio --- Jones would fight to keep a team out of San Antonio, but I think at some point, owners would support, but it would be an epic battle. Portland is out due to size and proximity to Seattle (2 1/2 hours), it would cannibalize too much of Seattle's market. 4- This debate on Buffalo's support or lack of support for the Bills and whether fans need to change their behaviors going forward is nonsense. Buffalo supports this team as well as any other NFL city, we can argue and split hairs about % capacity, price of tickets, suite sales, the Bills buying the last 3,000 tickets, weather etc. etc. Bottom line, ask any NFL fan and they'll say the same thing. Bills fans are loyal, passionate, colorful and show up win or lose, rain, snow, sleet (and sometimes sun). Buffalo fans just need to keep doing what they've been doing for the past decade. While I am still of the opinion that fan support won't change an owner's mind if he/she wants to move team. It can never hurt and is a card that can be played to sway a relocation vote or two. Just keep doing what we've been doing. No need to start a fill the stadium campaign. 5- Lastly, I'm still holding out hope that Ralph put a condition in his will on the sale to find a local buyer if one exists, that would be a GIFT. A 6-year no move clause is no gift, trust me ! If the team gets sold next week to a California billionaire who wants to move the team, that 6-year "gift" will feel like the longest divorce in the history of marriages !!

I agree that fan support doesn't hurt the cause and might even help a little, and I also agree that it would make the NFL look bad, like letting the Browns move, I just have ZERO faith in the other 31 owners to do what's right for Buffalo and not what's best for their pocket books.

I get why YOU think supporting the team matters, I just think a new owner will either want the team here (a Pegula type) or not (a billionaire from California) -- filling a few extra seats won't change either person's mind. I'm offended because you continue to imply that the community isn't supporting the team now. I think it does. I also think blindly supporting a bad product is crazy. Brandon & Co. have a responsibility to put a good product on the field and stop taking the fans for granted.

I'm so tired of the preaching that Buffalo fans need to show their support for this team -- it implies, whether intended or not, that Buffalo fans have NOT supported this team in the past. What is that based on ? A couple playoff games 2 decades ago that didn't sell out ? A few December games over the past decade that didn't on a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 14 years and has only sniffed them twice in that same time span ? In an area that has been devastated economically ? I beg you "preachers" to just STOP. This community that we are all a part of lives, sleeps and eats the Buffalo Bills. Our passion for this team is one of the best in the NFL. We as fans have a right to expect and demand that the people that run this team to give us a quality product. To suggest such a demand is in some way shape or form an indication of disloyalty or being a bandwagon fan is simply bull$*it. Give your sanctimony a rest.

Completely understand. I've been bouncing back and forth between the two threads all day -- at one point, I'm sad and retrospective about Ralph and then I'm worried about what will happen to the franchise --- on top of that, I'm monitoring Jill Kelly's twitter to see what's happening to Jim --- tough day all around -- no debate here

Maybe if you wrote slower.

There's another thread to mourn Ralph and show him the respect, admiration and thanks he so richly deserves -- this thread is purely about playing the guessing game -- if your not into that, I respect your POV, but, don't post on this thread, simple as that.

WOW --- if that isn't convoluted logic I don't know what is ????? First, there are other choices for your entertainment dollars in Buffalo besides the Bills -- movies, theater, music, museum etc. etc. Second, actually, I really have no idea what point you are making in your second statement.

Buffalo fans have nothing more to prove. That's my point.

Your being too negative -- you say the Bills couldn't sell out a playoff game, I say, they sold 78,000 tickets --- probably, at the time, more than any other team in the playoffs --- plus, you are talking about a situation that happened over 20 years ago ! What Bills fans have done the past 14 years is support the team more than anyone would have expected given just how crappy the on the field product has been. I don't agree with buying tickets to try and impress a new owner, however, because I don't think it will matter. Does anyone know if it is true that Littman is in charge of the estate ?

So, selling 75,000-78,000 is not supporting the team ? Sorry, this glass is HALF FULL, Buffalo fans have supported this team.

So, PTR, you are now arguing that Buffalo fans don't support the team, don't pull a John Kerry and flip flop on us? I was at most of those late December and playoff games and I'd be shocked if there were more than a handful of empty seats.

While I think it's great the Bills finished 11th in TV market, don't be misled by that number and it's relationship to MONEY. The Bills ranked 11th in RATING. RATING represents the percentage of TV's in an area tuned into a particular broadcast NOT the absolute number of TV's. For instance, if Buffalo has 1M in population and has a 35% rating; 350,000 people are watching. If LA has a population of 10M and a 20% rating; 2,000,000 people are watching !! So, which market will generate more money ? Great we are so passionate about the team, there just isn't as many of us in Buffalo as there are in places like LA. Sorry to burst the bubble !

BTW, Goodell made a comment today that the NFL "needs to come up with a long term plan to keep the Bills in Buffalo" --- GOOD and BAD --- the GOOD, they are interested in coming up with a plan to keep the team in Buffalo. the BAD, there is NO PLAN !