dayman

That is what we are talking about in large part. And to the point, what reasonable privacy expectations are being violated here?

Well there is a lot of chatter about potential abuse and lies and more things that have yet to come out...but the leak didn't show any of that...you know...the kind of stuff good leaks show...nobody has shown any of that

I have heard a few tv heads claiming that basically the system is source/destination/time of call is stored forever...then they can go back w/ FISA warrant to look at all of that info for a number once they identify a number as a target... For Internet the heads claim they do look at actual content but that nothing for US citizens ever and nothing for people in the US ... unless of course looking at there their stuff happens when looking at foreign terrorists stuff .... but supposedly this program is in someway "real time" and they catch traffic of targets as they flow through US servers ... they do not collect or store this data as they do w/ the phone stuff... In other words...phone stuff is trolling with a net and they sift through what they catch once they have a target to look for...and Internet stuff is more like spear fishing (to stick w/ the fishing analogy) where as they need to identify something ahead of time and need to target that specific fish in real time.

As far as I know that is true for phone calls, not true for texts or web stuff...

Both. The phone program for sure, and to a lesser extent PRISM which as far as I have been shown does not effect US citizens or people in the US unless you have correspondence with a foreign terror suspect.I'm sure more will come out but I haven't seen it yet.

This is exactly the type of kid you want to entrust our country to....not my words.

Pretty sure a lot of people in Congress already know -and have known for some time- more details than are publicly available about this program.

I still fail to see how people can call the idea heroic when the program, if honestly evaluated, is not that outrageous.

I mean, if you had your pick, you pick the guy who went on a rant at the end of his speech about Christ dying an excruciating death so his blood could save us and state censored speech?

!@#$, I agree with Sarah Palin.

Of course nobody is right. Everybody is an idiot in that story.

I can't bring myself to catch up with this thread but generally speaking do people on this board want to do anything, including sending weapons, with regards to Syria at this moment?

3rd is correct. He aided the enemy by telling them what we are doing. He also aided the American people by telling them what we are doing. Both a traitor and a hero. But mainly a traitor until it is proven that something truly outrageous is happening (which it has not bene proven yet)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKdocYeSqTA

Some self-proclaimed constitutional scholars don't really care about these things...you see...never mind that it created a system of self-government...pay attention only to such self-proclaimed constitutional scholar's reading of certain provisions...do not pay attention to anything else...

If you give information to a news publisher you give it to everyone, including terrorists. That is obvious. Also, the poll contrasts "traitor" with "hero"...so didn't realize legal definitions of treason came into play.

Really not a big deal to me...maybe I'm just young and didn't grow up in a more private world but honestly I like the technology and I don't think this is that bad...apparently they can't get at texts b/c the companies do not store that data (or something like that)....and the email stuff...well...they aren't spying on me based on what I've been told...could there be more to it that could change my mind? Yes. Do I know anything more? No. And that is why this guy is a traitor. hehe

Incoming Glomar-ish response

lol lobbing discovery demands at a program that doesn't officially exist and has no public regulations or code as to confidentiality.

At this point I would say traitor. Although I do think what is leaked is important...I'm not really convinced this stuff should have been leaked. Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong but to the best of my knowledge there is giant a database w/ the numbers my number called and how long we spoke buried somewhere in there..and nobody can look at the content w/ out more particularized suspicion...and apparently nobody can read my email unless it is somehow connected with a terrorist suspect who is not in the united states... Less than optimal to say the least...but is this something that shocks me given my understanding of how "private" my digital life is anyway? Not really.

Pretty sure the economy falling off a cliff had more to do with that election than Palin...

The public is just doing what it always does with respect to former presidents... and with respect to current presidents. Nothing more. Give up the quest to vindicate Bush... nobody has to be mean about it now but that doesn't mean things didn't end up about as bad as possible. lol

haha scrambling? if you believe that Bush is in some way recovrring from his presidency outside of basic time passing...then that is what you believe. and I could care less of course but thebskewed overall view you have of the public opinion of bush and obama is simply your view

This really means nothing given that it is expected. If anything it took Bush too long to even get near 50 post presidency. Active presidents are another story all together.

THIS POST IS A SPOILER FOR BOOK READERS ONLY: Looks like they are incorporating a particularly nasty aspect to Robbs dead from the book in the next episode: http://i.imgur.com/D3Co1OW.jpg