dayman

Keep in mind, no matter how bad Orton has been...EJ was and is much worse. There isn't much to prove, I would refer you to his play throughout his career. Orton occasionally hits guys throughout the game. It's a miracle for EJ to throw one pass on target.

That is what the calculator tells you, whether that feeling is good or not. It isn't. We can make it, and need to win to do so--but odds are even with 10 wins we are out.

Just played around with it. It is pretty depressing. We really aren't making the playoffs.

If full throttle CJ is back, it certainly will.

I'll be optimistic b/c it is our last home game. Packers - 24 Bills - 27

We are playing 3 of the top teams in the league so this will be a true test... Are the Bills a great, good,average, poor or dreadful football team? Average with a splash of poor Will the players fight or quit ? We need to dump the quitters before next season Fight Lets list some questions leading into 2015 #1 The difference between Kyle Orton, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Aaron Rogers . Can the Bills compete or is the experiment over at Quarterback? Is Kyle Orton a winner or loser ? Loser #2 After 12 weeks of tinkering, can the Bills finally run the football . If not, what adjustments are coming ? Nope. Need new personnel on Oline. #3 Can the Bills offense line protect Kyle Orton against 3 of the better pass rushing teams or will we blame everything on the quarterback position ? For the most part, yes. #4 Will we see enough improvement to retain the present coaching staff ? We probably already have. At least in reality...and probably IMO as well. #5 Is there any future in Buffalo for Mike Williams and CJ Spiller. Is Bryce Brown a suitable replacement for Spiller? No, No, and yes but it isn't saying much. #6 How well does Sammy Watkins play in the BIG games when winning is vital to survival . Can he play at a higher level ? Who is Buffalo's #1 Wide Receiver ......SAMMY WATKINS or ROBERT WOODS ? Sammy will not play very good but we'll all just wait to see him when he is healthy next year before going crazy. #7 Can the Bills win at home like all great NFL teams or will we choke in our own stadium against the Packers? Losing at home is killing this team! Lose at home, not really a choke though b/c Pack is just a lot better team right now. #8 Are we heading for another rebuilding project with new coaches and future draft picks or are we one quarterback away ? We are one QB and a few other things away. We are not in need of a wholesale rebuilding project, if anything we need to lock a lot players we have in for the long term. We probably don't need new coaches at this point. #9 With a safe lead or hopelessly behind will the Buffalo Bills use EJ Manuel before seasons end and actually let him throw a pass ? Should Orton fail, EJ could be the starter on Week #1 next season, that's some pretty scary stuff. ... Nope. Nope. #10 Will Buffalo fans riot ,loop and set fire to the city of Buffalo should the Bills miss the playoffs for 16 straight seasons ? Of course not. -

Lose again the team implodes.

Even still, if you were to compare them Orton is way better. EJ mind doesn't process and you can see it...then he throws bad balls constantly. Orton's mind processes it a good deal of the time (although he has killed us on a some plays) and he is capable of placing a catchable ball. Orton not being the best is no defense of EJ.

Bottom line is if we can lock the D up and attack the offense in the draft we can not only make the playoffs but win in the playoffs.

Is it not the person who keeps venting his salt at the Bills?

You got a link to good/current SOS rankings?

He isn't wrong about the Jets but most division have their version of the Jets. Carolina and Jacksonville instantly come to mind...Oakland...etc....

Well the good news is it looks like Fred will never stop.

Rice would be good for us, and he's going to play for someone.

We have 3 of the top 7 on the sack list. No other team has 2. http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/defense/sort/sacks 1Justin Houston, LBKC 13.0 2Elvis Dumervil, LBBAL 12.5 3 Connor Barwin, LBPHI 12.5 4Mario Williams, DEBUF 12.0 5Von Miller, LBDEN14 10.0 6 Marcell Dareus, DTBUF 10.0 7Jerry Hughes, DEBUF 9.5

Yup. PLEASE GOD let us lock this front in. The money doesn't even really matter. It would the first true identity the franchise has had in a very long time....

I would consider Kiko for a 10 ten pick if we resigned Spikes. You have to at least consider stuff like that.

Yup just saw the Jets v. Bills graphic. We are, indeed, golden.

Just showing a directtv symbol. I'm getting nervous. Please tell me it is doing that for you also....

Ej has roughly 4 decent games in career. The rest is bad and in spots horrid. He's put up single digit QBR twice (winning one of them...to show how useless it is to talk about wins). He was holding the team back and losing games all by himself at the end there and it was depressing the entire offense. The WRs had basically given up on life 4 games into the season b/c they obviously are in a unique position to know when it is truly hopeless.

I mean this is the real issue to debate. Is it really? I don't know what you would have to do as a young QB to fail spectacularly if EJ didn't. It really just comes down to some fans will give 2/3 years no matter what even if it is terrible. Don't forget, the players made it known Kyle was an upgrade. They weren't in revolt but they had terrible body language after many of EJ's throws towards the end. I mean, don't you guys remember how bad it was?

Asked and expected are different things. And as I said almost all fail, it is about how you fail. EJ has failed spectacularly. I'm not in any way saying he has to be rookie Cam/RGIII/Luck etc. I'm saying he has to show he can throw. He's played enough games to prove it will never be a strength.

The article says he will act crazy again and create more problems. I doubt he would. He's immature and obnoxious but I get the impression this whole thing, having gotten to this level, would cause him to at least pretend to be civilized for the duration of his career.

Sums up why I'm done with EJ perfectly. He just doesn't have the arm talent and you can see it. Also, it's not like he's showing signs of grasping defenses either...nor was he asked to do much at FSU. Honestly, based on how he operated at FSU, I think he was somewhat surprised when the NFL asked him to go out and win the game throwing as a QB--right now. Almost all rookies that are lucky enough to start are asked to do that...most fail...but it's about how you fail. You can't fail in the way where fans think you can't throw.

I just can't think of an example where a QB that had huge accuracy problems early became a good passer. I would love to hear a few, and I know guys improve...but they don't really learn how to throw on the job. There's a lot that goes into being a QB but that doesn't make the act of throwing any less important, the best QBs are usually really gifted at throwing great balls.