dayman

Most people would have it 0 if they are not unionized (which a fair enough people aren't) AND not skilled enough so that they are totally replaceable...but they "have it 1 time" by virtue of that union or by virtue of their individual negotiation if they are a skilled worker... Everything else you said are reasons why they may not need a union as much as other workers (whether or not everything there is true is besides the point), but those don't address issue of bargaining power. "Do you have bargaining power?" and "Do you need bargaining power" are two different questions. Personally I think every employee group should have some reasonable ability to bargain for wages/benefits ... what is reasonable within different contexts is highly fact specific and as I said I think some limited internal process for this for public sectors protected from political whims would probably be enough...how limited?...pretty limited (but not totally lacking)

It's not necessarily that the jobs are "non-hazardous" but as others have hinted at when they strike they strike against the tax payers. They are the tax payers. "Management" in this instance is the government...and workers are citizen voters. So it's not really not really management v. workers bargaining for wages ... b/c the workers are all ready represented by the political process as voters. They can vote as they wish, and they can also lobby their fellow voters to persuade them that it's important to give x, y, and z conditions to public sector workers b/c they need to attract certain talent or whatever....Obviously that political representation is there and thus the public union is sort of "having it twice." Now, at the same time it probably isn't fair (IMO) to ONLY have that "first level" political influence as a citizen ... b/c while it's not the traditional management v. worker relationship it still IS a management v. worker relationship (lol) ... so long story short I think they should have some ability to "collectively bargain" but it should be significantly downscaled and ultimately it shouldn't resemble what we think of as a union at all there really should just be some sort of internal process of sorts that is protected against political whims (perhaps built into the state level constitutions?) that allows for some reasonable give and take/dialogue over various benefits and interests that are within the feasibility of whatever the current budget limitations are as set forth by the state congress. Long story short a traditional union would be having it twice. No protection is less than having it "one full time." Some lower-level bargaining power protected from political whims + the fact that they are voters will amount to a fair situation IMO.

LOL this topic is destroyed. I don't mind of course it was predictable but I do which it warped into something more interesting.

LOL, we sure did.

It's an entitlement program to allow students educated in American higher education institutions majoring in STEM fields to then put the education to work in America? And I'm not sure irrational fear of terrorists should be brought up every time people talk about any foreigner ... last I checked it takes years to graduate from college plenty of time to blow something up while here on their student visa.

On a note related to American Competitiveness...recently saw some stuff about the real flaws in our skilled-labor legal immigration process. Why on earth we would take talent from around the world suck them through our higher education system often coming out with graduate degrees in STEM fields and then make it difficult for them to get green cards? Needless to say, if you are an immigrant student graduating with a degree in a STEM field a green card should come with your diploma...no questions asked.

lol I'm sorry Tom but migratory birds **** in that puddle in your back yard that'll be $10K worth of impact studies before you can build a dog house there.

Now now, I wouldn't be so sensitive as someone who wages crusades against workers of other professions.

LOL yes 3rdling illegals are here not in accordance to our current immigration laws. However I have a forward looking approach to the issue of fixing the problem today for today and the future. What are your answers to the issues facing us in this realm?

Personally no I would not build a wall. Fareed's personal conclusion at the end of his special outlines what he sees a possible solution (his opinion of course). Basically give papers to existing illegal immigrants without criminal records, deport those with criminal records. Those given legal status would still have a long route to citizenship most likely lasting 15 years (back of the line) during which they have to pay taxes and stay crime free (of course). Then we would reduce the number (currently 75%) of all immigrants who come in currently b/c they have been sponsored by a legal immigrant, we would increase the number of immigrants who come in with skills we need (needless to say every higher education diploma we give out in our schools to an immigrant student studying STEM fields should include a green card). Lastly make some orderly provision for temp workers who pick crops seasonally. This is basically the crux of the bill co-sponsored by Ted Kennedy and John McCain and strongly supported by then President George Bush...but the right opposed any path to valid status for those who came illegally in the past, some leftist forces opposed the shift to skills based immigration (I assume to protect the higher percentage of legal immigrants sponsoring family members relative to those coming in for skills based reasons?), and the unions opposed the temp worker provisions. I am no expert on immigration but I don't see huge problems with that basic outline.

Of course I'm for legal immigration and against illegal immigration. I'm also against political manipulation of the issue in a way the prevents common sense reform. What about you 3rdling? Is this an issue you care about/what are your general thoughts and irks regarding various options?

IDK but piss me off and I will fear for my life don't think I won't.

So long-story short: Japan is basically insanely anti-immigration despite the fact it seems it would help with some serious problems they face. European nations have many of the same problems we have in the way they view the problem and the politicization of it. Canada and Australia do it well. We can do it well and know how (Ted Kennedy/John McCain/George Bush tried) but the extremes of the parties on both left and right oppose it and it's not likely we are politically capable of enacting intelligent reform anytime soon. No use writing a summary but it's worth watching even if you think you hate Zakaria or are generally "anti-immigration" (whatever that means to you personally).... Some fair discussion on the illegal issue....and some light shed on the backwards policy we have related to the educated immigrants (educated in our schools no less) particularly Silicon Valley's frustration with an inept skilled-worker policy.

Oh of course not....it's not even in Florida (although I would be shocked if Texas didn't have as similar law)...he's arguing self-defense (which is why he introduced the video into court Wednesday)...

If anyone is interested the special starting now on "making immigration work" should have some decent ideas whether anybody agrees or disagrees.

IDK about that...he called the police over a noise complaint...the police actually came out and said it was fine and left (apparently the guy was hosting a birthday party for his wife) http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Subject-in-Huffman-shootings-always-judging-1698753.php ...he then went down and stood on the road off the edge of the guys driveway with a flashlight, camera, and gun...b/c he was not happy taht the police didn't stop the party....and eventually shot 3 drunk people all on that dudes the driveway (the guy died on his own driveway)...I'm not sure he was within any right to do any of that let alone shoot.

LOL yes that is what I'm saying. But please spread the word. It is obvious, but people don't know this. I'm serious too...people don't understand this.

I mean my take is if you think you are giving too much money to doctors you probably are...and when you complain about your premiums you are the reason they are so high. NoW yes, what I'm about to say won't apply to everybody and may sound asinine...but the truth is we don't need doctors. I'm basically a youngish guy in good shape so I know not everybody is in my position but I use CVS as my doctor. I get my shot there and if I feel sick I just do nothing and get better...and if it's bad I go to CVS and tell the dude how I feel and ask what cheap over the counter stuff will calm my symptoms while my body heals itself. If I hurt my leg or something running or playing sports I stop being active until it feels better. We really don't need doctors. I talk a lot about allowing the specialist market to work more like a free market by having people have larger out of pocket expenses so they have to shop and doctors compete more...but the same is true of general visits...we use too much medical services. Now on the flip side I do understand early identification and preventative care is huge for health and costs ... so I'm not saying I don't think people should get a yearly check up or something (even though I don't)...but just trust your body and listen to it...take care of it...feel your balls in the shower and if you are older go get your ass looked at from time to time and that's about it the way I see it. I know not everybody can do that some people have real problems but most can do exactly what I do IMO and if they all did insurance costs would be much lower. And for God's sake NEVER GO TO THE HOSPITAL. IF YOU GO TO THE ER YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO COMPLAIN ABOUT INSURANCE COSTS EVER! Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor if you follow my advice and die you are a fool.

No like everything I link to it's hosted by Fareed "I brainwash NewBills" Zakaria. So it will probably be good.

8pm on CNN there is going to be what should be a pretty informative hour-long special on immigration. Probably worth watching I would recommend it.

I can't even remember the last time I actually went to see a doctor. I guess the people at CVS are nurses who give me my Flu shot? Or maybe just pharmacist (and maybe they count?). Why are you going to the doctor so much Exile? Are you dying?

No need to give the story for this one. Needless to say the HBO replay will get ratings...watch with this on your computer. Wow http://distilleryimage9.instagram.com/914b4ce8b2bc11e1a9f71231382044a1_7.jpg

LOL ok ok, I feel like I just touched a small dogs bowl while it was eating...I will return now to my usual abstinence from this thread

Of course I did this thread is nuts but that video doesn't deserve it's own thread it fits well enough in here. Calm your panties 3rd ... I've made enough threads recently

Oh calm down. I apologize for potentially disrupting the sacred Trayvon thread