dayman

Nope. Not if it was a solid move. I love me a strong president. Always have always will

Just to clarify you guys (assuming you are) are upset of this ... why?

I know you guys hate Obama but this stuff is serious. I flipped through some book the other day (didn't buy it just looked) after hearing his interview on Sirius of some ex-FBI dude that did all this stuff ... we got holes. If we're going to be Stuxnet'in other people we need to take efforts to secure our own networks.

And tell me why you can say that w/ a straight face. What evidence do you have that will happen. B/c there is plenty of evidence it won't happen, and hasn't happened. We've done nothing but cut cut cut for over a decade....we should be awash in jobs and should have been for the last decade...your thinking is just a fantasy. It's not a plan. It's a hope. A hope that hasn't come true...obviously we can't "balance the budget" to grow the economy which grows b/c we balance the budget...there needs to be an actual plan...and the government spending doesn't match up w/ the growing economy over the last few years of stagnation...we really could have used a little more gas in 2010/11 (linked w/ a compromise kicking in around 2013/14 to provide stability and giving us time to get things under control)

I'm not sure how $5 trillion in tax cuts puts us "closer to cracking the code" http://www.bloomberg...ses-table-.html I know you guys hate Obama and think the Liberals are just insane, but the truth is the GOP philosophy really is the thing keeping some sort of a deal from happening. The fiscal cliff is there to force a "grand bargain" of sorts...and one side basically still going with "all my stuff" (massive tax cuts)...that's not a bargain and it doesn't add up. You guys can call Romney a bold leader w/ a plan, or Ryan some wonk-genius boy...but it is what it is. If Obama gets a second term we're going to get something close to Simpson-Bowles...that is going to work a lot better than this madness the GOP is trumpeting...all that assumes of course the GOP agrees to *gasp* some revenue increases...so here's hoping they take it to heart when they lose this election.

Ahem *puts on raspy, silky smooth, soothing voice* "So far everyone who has bet against America has lost money" *enjoys massive applause*

you just !@#$ed up...somewhere...clearly...

That is pure maniac talk

And the solution is to not pay our bills? Makes no sense...tough problem no matter who you ask and most reasonable agree we need revenue increases and spending reductions (more spending reduction than revenue increase obviously) and we can't shrink up the economy while doing it b/c then we won't be able to do anything but pay our interest and eventually it will collapse. So we need to find a way to compromise on an appropriate balance between revenue increases and spending reductions through a smart policy that allows leaves room for policy that allows us to grow out of this stagnation. Sound familiar? And the elephant in the room is the mortgage write down thread...we can't do the most important part (keep growing at a moderate rate) until we get with it. Throw the tea party and Grover and anyone so pissed they can't think anymore out (including liberals), come to terms on Simpson-Bowles, write down substantial mortgage debt, and capitalize on the investments we've already made in the reinvestment act which are more than anybody has reported on. That will kick us in the right direction pretty hard, and in the coming years after taking that path we'll have more room to push even harder. Before long...we'll be alright.

A default would be bad for the short term, and catastrophic if we defaulted for any considerable amount of time. You cited a defaults in the past...was it good for long term economic outlook? Whether we make payment of our obligations (when we are the US government) is not the answer to spending problems. The only answer to spending problems is...obviously...coming to terms on a budget deal that works well enough and both sides can accept.

LOL and our spending is under control? You arguing for or against my position that the debt limit does not solve our spending problems?

Comparing my financial situation to the US government? Are we going to actually talk seriously here? Congressional Budget Office: By itself, setting a limit on the debt is an ineffective means of controlling deficits because the decisions that necessitate borrowing are made through other legislative actions. By the time an increase in the debt ceiling comes up for approval, it is too late to avoid paying the government’s pending bills without incurring serious negative consequences. Read more: http://business.time.com/2011/07/12/what-to-do-with-the-debt-ceiling-get-rid-of-it/#ixzz25qHen3F7

That's all there is read. It's not a "golden opportunity" ... we have to pay our bills. It's that simple. There are no golden opportunities with that. It's crazy and it doesn't matter who does it, who did it, when how or why...it's just crazy. It's unconstitutional quite frankly.

Except it ... isn't the budget. It's whether we will..pay...for...the budget...after we...ordered the meal...

Why don't you send that to your guys...or does it work one way? It's well documented the GOP's stance on how to recover from the shellacking of 2008...sit on the sidelines and B word betting the economy to crash and keeping their finger prints off it (aka doing nothing in a time of crisis) so when it was time for the next election they could point a finger and also state exactly what you are doing now: "Obama is not bipartisan." You see..when cooperation is a campaign theme the other party can single handedly break it. All that is need to examine is what is known ("known" as in fact) about the strategy meeting in late December/Early January before Obama was sworn in...all that is necessary to show it was working in action is the events leading the recovery act. Buy your parties own trash, go right ahead. You are literally the product of a political strategy.

The last situation aside let's talk about this point. 1) Congress approves spending. 2?) Congress... authorizes to pay separately? We're not going to pay? There is no logic for the debt ceiling to not automatically increase. We don't even decide to spend when it's time to pay. It's other legislative action that gives rise to the future need to pay. By the time the debt ceiling is an issue, it's too late to avoid paying w/ out "bad things" happening. It's not rational or effective in controlling spending. The spending debate is real, but the debt ceiling debate is not.

Ok well no need to continue posting. You like that the Repubs played hardball with fire and caused enough anxiety to downgrade our rating which is Obama's fault. I understand your view. End of discussion.

We'll not vote to extend the debt ceiling unless *condition, condition, condition* Hostage is a talking point? Maybe...a pretty damn accurate one. Get over your partisan hackery you can hate on Obama for all the other things you hate on Obama for...don't let it blind you and excuse the GOP when they deserve your hate. Seriously, take off your blidners

I suggest you acknowledge a few truths. 1) No matter what playing with the debt ceiling, no matter who does it, is pure retardation. It should happen automatically as it does for countries with a brain. 2) The GOP did it again, in a more serious manner than ever before. Took a hostage, demanded a ransom, played with fire and got us all burned. That is undeniable. Regardless of what you say, this is the plain story.

You are thus absolving the GOP from this by declaring "Obama bad"...in other words...you have just sanctioned ransom holding the debt limit the exact thing that was responsible for the downgrade and basically condoned the downgrade. It makes no sense. It's retarded when it's used for political purposes and it's disastrous when taken to the extreme to actually cause real anxiety in the markets. Take off your blinder brother

Politicizing something makes you unfit to lead? Well damn...I think we have a huge problem in Washington in both parties lol In any event a very real ransom and political posturing are two different things...and a downgrade is all the evidence you need. When someone takes a hostage and demands a ransom and the hostage gets shot...we all know who's fault it is. This topic is stupid. Point the finger at some other event this example is pathetic.

It's retarded to use the debt ceiling for anything. It should just be automatic that is the ONLY sane way for things to exist. In any event, retarded as it may be to posture against spending when there is no real anxiety or threat of not actually passing it to make a point known...and to actually hold ransom the debt ceiling in a very serious way that is creating all kinds of anxiety...are two different brands of stupid. By any analysis...both retarded...and one clearly way way more retarded. There is no excuse..."Obama did it in '06" is no point at all to relieve the ransom that happened plain and simple. There is no excuse. It is straight retarded. Congress buyers car. Congress tells bank not to pay dealer. Congress retarded.

Historically both parties have cast votes to signal their disapproval of majority spending, and historically each time any one of them did they were rather retarded. It has been raised countless times in it's history usually as a matter of course and actually automatically for much of that time (just as it is in basically every advanced country)...b/c ya know "the validity of the US debt shall not be questioned" is in that document they're all pledged to uphold. So tell me again, why were did the Repubs one up even previous idiocy and play games with it when it actually could be stopped by them?

Can anyone explain to me why the debt ceiling is appropriate to debate in the first place. Not trying to be snarky but let's get down the crux of it here. To sit here and put this on Obama we should first address what "it" is...and "it" is insane.

Oh, Tom (non Obama supporter acknowledging) that it can't be magically fixed? Wow. Hehe. In any event as I've said over and over until we write down some mortgage debt it's not coming back plain and simple.