hondo in seattle

I get the whole good is the enemy of great argument but I'm not sure it applies. Since McD has been here, I have never once felt we had the best roster in the AFC. So why would we expect a Super Bowl appearance, let alone a win. The playoffs are a brutal gauntlet. Getting through it requires a strong roster, a strong coaching staff, good health, and a little bit of luck. We haven't had all that. When I look back on McD's tenure, each season he either achieves to the level of the roster or he over-achieves. Getting us to the playoffs in his first year was a heck of an accomplishment. The six wins the following season was also a great accomplishment considering we had the lowest cap spending on active players in the league and arguably the worst roster (that was the year Beane started cleaning house). Last year, given our injuries, we didn't have the roster of a 13-3 team but McD produced 13 wins anyway. This is the first season when I see McD is winning fewer games than he ought to with the roster he has. I tend to be in favor of the Steelers model: Find a good coach and stick with him. They've only had 3 head coaches in the past 50+ years. That continuity has all sorts of positive consequences. Position coaches and coordinators want to work for a stable organization. Players want to play for a stable organization. With stability, the staff learns from its mistakes and corrects them. Lessons learned are retained within the organization. Noll, Cowher, and Tomlin weren't great strategists. But, with the steadfast support of ownership, they earned six Lombardis. Over the same time, our reactive approach has netted zero.

Obviously, I was talking about their records with the Bills. But that is an interesting point. Rex has a buffoonish reputation yet he did that.

Yep. McD at 4-5 is one game under .500 in the playoffs. Andy Reid had a losing record during his first 20 years as a head coach, too. It doesn't mean he was a bad coach. Only the very best teams with the best rosters and coaching staffs get to the playoffs. Every playoff game is, more or less, a tossup. Even now, having had an elite roster over the past few years, Reid is only .579. There are a few standout coaches in history who have won over 60% of their playoff games but many good coaches - including ones with rings - hover around the .500 mark. Of course, I want Sean to do better. But I'll take his 4-5 record over the 0-0 record of his predecessors.

Other than NE, where he was subservient to Papa Bill, McDaniels creates dysfunction and despair everywhere he goes.

Yeah, I'm aware. I watched the O'Sullivan breakdown and was kind of amazed at how - even after 50 years of watching football - how much I don't know or don't notice. It was humbling. Though it's still not wrong for me to give the OC some of the credit when an offense is humming and some of the blame when it's not. It is, after all, his job to make it hum.

I grew up in Cheektowaga but left the Buffalo area when I went to college and, other than a couple of brief stints early on, never looked back. Since then, I've lived in the South, the Midwest, and on the West Coast, as well as spending time overseas. But everywhere I went, I remained a Bills fan. In the old days, it was hard to get news about your hometown team when living out of state. But the invention of the internet, and my discovery of TBD, were unexpected blessings. I enjoy the camaraderie of my mafia brethren, but it was the in-depth coverage and discussions that brought me here.

Last year, I was sitting at a table on the outdoor patio of a restaurant in Morgan Hill, California, when the folks at a nearby table struck up a conversation with my wife and me. At first, we talked about our husky who was with us. But then they noticed my Bills iPhone protective case and commented on it. It turned out they had recently become big Bills fans because of Josh Allen. The woman went to high school with Josh's mom and both husband and wife knew his family. They were complimentary about the entire Allen clan... "Just the nicest people you'd ever want to know."

This is how a lot of Bills fans feel about our OC (Dorsey). Some folks complain about Allen running around instead of getting the ball out quickly. It would be easier if Dorsey's schemes and play-calls gave Allen someone to throw to.

The OL has generally looked better than last year. But I'm suspicious of any metric that says our OL is the very best at pass pro.

They're a 4-3 team with a big win on their resume. We're a 5-3 team with a big win on our resume. We both have strengths and star players. We both have notable weaknesses. Given how bipolar both teams have been, it's hard to predict the winner. But we really need this game almost as badly as needed the Fins game. I'll shed tears of happiness if we get a similar result.

Yeah... cash flow and valuation are two entirely different things. Davis isn't managing cash flow very well by continuing to pay two ex-coaches who failed. But if he decides to sell the team, he'll do great.

NFL head coaches from the Belichick tree... 10. Joe Judge NFL head coaching jobs: Giants (2020-2021) Career record: 10-23 A longtime special teams coordinator under Belichick in New England, Judge brought bravado to his press conferences, but it didn't translate. The bar was set low after dismal two-year stints with Ben McAdoo and Pat Shurmur, but his teams -- despite occasionally feisty defenses -- never materialized on offense and threw in the towel late. 9. Matt Patricia NFL head coaching jobs: Lions (2018-2020) Career record: 13-29-1 The bearded wonder helped Bill win three Super Bowls as the Patriots' defensive coordinator, but he was largely disagreeable in Detroit, guiding some scrappy upsets -- including over Belichick's Pats in 2018 -- but ultimately expediting the future relocation of big names like Matthew Stafford and Darius Slay while failing to sniff the playoffs. 8. Josh McDaniels NFL head coaching jobs: Broncos (2009-2010), Raiders (2022-2023) Career record: 20-33 The longtime offensive coordinator was ousted quickly by two different franchises. Controversy followed him, from a reported dispute with ex-Broncos QB Jay Cutler, who left Denver before McDaniels coached a game; to a videotaping scandal that prompted NFL fines. He's proven capable of designing an offense while in New England, but his redemption tour with the Raiders was quickly undone by an overreliance on aging, battered friends from his Patriots days. 7. Romeo Crennel NFL head coaching jobs: Browns (2005-2008), Chiefs (2011-2012)*, Texans (2020)* Career record: 32-63 The longtime defensive coordinator is respected and well-liked, hence his repeat role as an interim for failed regimes. But in roughly six seasons of combined experience running the ship, he managed just one winning season and zero playoff bids. Note: * = Crennel was an interim coach for 15 of his 32 games with the Chiefs and Texans. 6. Eric Mangini NFL head coaching jobs: Jets (2006-2008), Browns (2009-2010) Career record: 33-47 (0-1 playoffs) A defensive assistant under Belichick with both the Jets and Patriots, Mangini started hot, finishing 10-6 and guiding Chad Pennington to Comeback Player of the Year honors in his debut, only to fall to Belichick's Pats in the first round of the playoffs. He never recovered, going 19-29 for the remainder of his career, which included a reportedly alienated locker room in Cleveland. 5. Brian Daboll NFL head coaching jobs: Giants (2022-present) Career record: 11-13-1 (1-1 playoffs) Daboll held three different positions in two different stints under Belichick before taking off at Alabama and as the Bills' OC, then rejuvenating the careers of Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley to guide a scrappy Giants team to a road playoff win in his HC debut. He quickly fell back to Earth in Year 2, however, as he's failed to overcome a shoddy O-line with curious situational decision-making. 4. Al Groh NFL head coaching jobs: Jets (2000) Career record: 9-7 You can't tarnish a legacy that barely exists! Groh, of course, is best known for his long run as Virginia's coach, and a champion Giants assistant, but he spent just one year on the sidelines in New York before resigning to return to college. He at least paved the way for Herm Edwards' tenure -- a five-year run that included three playoff berths and two postseason wins. 3. Nick Saban NFL head coaching jobs: Dolphins (2005-2006) Career record: 15-17 A defensive coordinator under Belichick with the Browns, Saban would obviously rank No. 1 if we were including college achievements; he's the NCAA Belichick running the powerhouse that is Alabama. In Miami, he was just mediocre, which is more than most of these guys can say. His broken promise to stick with the Dolphins rather than bolt for the Crimson Tide will always be part of his NFL "legacy," however. 2. Brian Flores NFL head coaching jobs: Dolphins (2019-2021) Career record: 24-25 Miscommunication seems to be the chief reason for his departure, with reported disagreements over key spots like QB -- where he tried but failed to acquire Deshaun Watson and/or ride a combo of Tua Tagovailoa and Ryan Fitzpatrick to the playoffs. His teams were also very streaky. Still, considering the barren rebuild he inherited, he always kept Miami in contention with a stout "D." And he might be on his way to another top job after bringing physicality to a makeshift Vikings defense. 1. Bill O'Brien NFL head coaching jobs: Texans (2014-2020) Career record: 52-48 (2-4 playoffs) O'Brien helped leave the Texans in their recent state of ruin, seizing personnel power and even an official general manager title while shipping Pro Bowl stars like DeAndre Hopkins and Laremy Tunsil out of town. But he at least brought toughness and respect to an organization long mired in mediocrity, guiding four playoff runs and two 10-win finishes in just over six seasons. www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/raiders-fire-josh-mcdaniels-ranking-all-the-nfl-head-coaches-from-bill-belichicks-coaching-tree/

True but maybe he's not a good talent evaluator when it comes to coordinators. Belichick has run some good offenses and defenses with OCs and DCs that failed once they left Boston. Maybe he propped them up and helped them perform beyond their level. It could be a case of good teacher/bad students.

Outstanding athlete... excellent return man... but, boy, it was frustrating when he was draped on a receiver and still allowed the catch.

Six people, so far, voted for McGee. As I recall, he had a knack for closely shadowing receivers only to let them catch the ball anyway.

He's a great back for a passing offense. He runs hard, blocks well, and is a reliable safety valve. His career catch rate is around 80% and slightly more than half his catches result in first downs. When he's not protecting the QB, he's moving the chains. As for being washed, his rush yards per attempt last year behind a bad OL was only 3.5. That may be cause for concern. But otherwise, his performance last season was fine: 1,191 total yards, 88% catch rate, 55% success rate... www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FourLe00.htm

I don't know what to expect. So far during the season, we've won three games by 28 points including a big victory over the Fins. But we struggled against everyone else, including teams that were clearly inferior. I feel like the team has Dissociative Identity Disorder and suffers from multiple personalities. If the Good Bills show up, we'll win by a wide margin. We'll lose if the Bad Bills show up. If a third personality manifests... who knows? To me, this game isn't about matchups. It's about whether or not the Bills choose to be the best version of themselves.

Someone even demanded that I give my Jim Kelly bobblehead away to a "real fan!" No... actually I'm just having a little fun. There have been no nasty DMs and I love my fellow Bills Mafioso's, even when they're giving me flack. We're a "band of brothers" (and sisters like Muppy) who have suffered long and hard together. I just don't understand why we, as fans, can't suggest that Josh might be a small part of the problem we sometimes experience with our passing attack. I love Josh and am super appreciative that we have him as a QB after so many poor-to-mediocre ones. I'm just not into the sacred cow thing. But even though I think Josh could be doing some things better, I'm upset at the team for not creating the conditions for him to be the best QB he can be. Beane hasn't built a good OL line. And the receivers, other than Diggs, are pretty much jags. And it's not just Beane. The coaches don't scheme the offense as well as Andy Reid for example. As many pundits have pointed out, the Bills ask Josh to do too much. He's very talented but he's not Superman.

If Von and Josh are really holding a player's only meeting, I assume they feel the main problem is with the players: effort, execution, etc. It'll be interesting to see if those things get better. Though clearly the coaching needs to get better, too. The Bills do not have the best roster in the league, but they do have more talent than their 4-3 record indicates. Maybe the team is missing Frazier and Daboll more than people expected.

One of the oldest leadership principles in the book is that you praise in public and criticize in private. We have no idea what McD is saying to Dorsey in private.

Why do you put all the blame on McD and none on Beane? Part of your plan to fix the team is to build a dominant offensive line. Beane's been here a while and hasn't done that. You would think it'd be a matter of urgency since we have a great QB. But even great QBs need time to throw. Receivers need time to get open. And a passing game works best when there's a complimentary running game which requires an OL to open holes. Finally, a good OL keeps your quarter-billion-dollar quarterback healthy. Beane's failure to effectively prioritize the OL is concerning. But that's not his only failure. Draft picks have been wasted. The splashy $100 million on Von has mostly been wasted thus far (we could have used that money on an OL). The talent in the secondary is fading as the stars get older and more injury prone... I'm not sure why people demand McD to give us a SB performance when Beane hasn't given him a SB roster. Your plan, by the way, is a fan's plan, not a realistic one. For example, every GM wants to build a dominant OL and DL and then the uncertainties of the draft and the limitations of the cap slap them in the face. Building an SB championship team is easier said than done.

I think it's interesting how many people rated responded to this thread with vomit icons & the like and DM-ed me to turn in my Zubaz and burn my mafia card. It's as if I urinated on some sacred object when I simply posed a question. Well, actually two questions. How good is Josh really? And: Who's to blame for his inconsistency. After watching the first half of yesterday's game, I don't think these are unwarranted. I hope McD is figuring this out because something needs to change.

For those making Kelly-Allen comparisons, one difference is that Kelly could rely on Thurman when he was having a bad days, or receivers were struggling to get open, or the OL was screwing up passpro. Josh can't do that. He carries the load by himself. Insofar as there is a problem, that's part of it.

After the playoff run in '21, I started feeling the same way. But he's been frustratingly inconsistent since then. All QBs, of course, suffer inconsistency but Allen moreso than, say, Mahomes or Brady. I think the receivers (not getting separation, drops...) are part of that. I think the OL has been a big part of the inconsistency though, so far this season, it seems we've made some progress. The coaches are part of it, too. But Allen owns some of the inconsistency too. He needs to not let his frustration in low-scoring games impact his decision-making.

I wish we could hire Andy Reid as our offensive coordinator. I think Josh would set records with Reid running the offense. But that's not a realistic wish. So, barring that, I'd love to see Josh behind a good offensive line. He'd have more time to throw. Receivers would have more time to get open. Backs would have holes to run through - meaning defenses would have to respect our run game and not focus solely on stopping Josh. And a good OL would keep Josh healthy.