hondo in seattle

I'm came here expecting a conversation about Xavier Worthy. I guess I was confused.

"A cauldron of sound!" Love the mafia!

Funny you mention Earl. As soon as I posted, I regretted not mentioning Campbell - the human battering ram. Loved watching him play. Dickerson, too, though I never quite put him in the OJ-Jim Brown tier. I've always been more of a Bills fan than an NFL fan. But in the old days before Sunday ticket, if I had a chance to watch a great RB on some other team, I did. I guess I should give Emmitt credit for his longevity. He was tough enough to avoid career-ending injuries. He kept himself in shape. Etc. But whenever I watched him, even in his prime, I felt like I was seeing a good back in action, not a great one. But using longevity as a tiebreaker makes sense. One guy I wish I could see more highlights of is Cookie Gilchrist. As I recall, Larry Felser (of the Buffalo Evening News) among others said Cookie in his prime (1962) was as good as Jim Brown. The stats don't seem to support that but there's one story about Cookie that I love and wish I could see. It was the last game of the season and the Bills had to beat the Pats at Fenway to make the playoffs. The first play of the game was a sweep. The DB squares up to tackle Cookie and instead of side-stepping him (Cookie was hard to arm-tackle), Cookie brutally plows directly into the man and knocks him unconscious. Then he walks over to the Pat huddle and challenged them, "Which one of you mother-f****ers is next?" The Pats folded. I'd love Cookie - with that attitude - on the Bills. Him hammering up the middle... Josh throwing all over the field... How could you defend that? www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF-VeROi5kA&t=193s

Actually, as little as I know college ball, this was my first thought when we drafted him. Davis will be the new starting RB on a rookie contract when Cook leaves.

When teams play Buffalo, they scheme to stop/slow down Josh. They don't scheme for Cook. The attitude is: Yeah, Cook may hurt us, but Allen will kill us if we let him. He's a nice back but I think his solid YPC since being with the Bills is more a factor of the offense he's in and how he's used.

Good points. I had thought to compare the #1 back to the average of the #2-10 backs which would be fairer and largely correct for the problems of two great backs playing contemporaneously. But it was too much work. One thing OJ's career teaches us is the importance of coaches. As you know, OJ's statistical output his first three years was mediocre because he was misused in an inept offense. Then Lou Saban came along and designed a good running attack that highlighted OJ's skills. Let's remember back in OJ's and Jim Brown's day, LBs weren't quick guys with nimble feet who were good in coverage. They were mean hulking monsters born-and-bred to destroy RBs: Dick Butkus, Ray Nitschke, Ted Hendricks, Jack 'Jack Splat' Lambert, Chuck 'Concrete Charlie' Bednarik, etc. I think Jim Brown, for example, would feast against today's pass-first defenses. I agree about Emmit. He's not the best RB in NFL history despite being the rushing leader. He played on balanced offenses - defenses couldn't sell out to stop him. He played behind good lines. And I guess I should give him credit for his longevity, but I don't. When I think of the "greatest" RBs, I think about who dominated in his prime. Jim Brown, OJ, Walter Payton, and Barry are the guys that first come to mind. For me, these are the Big Four just based on personal observation (in Brown's case - highlight film), not based on stats. And if I was asked to name my top five, I'd be tempted to add Gale Sayers to the list - his highlights are a joy to watch though he only had 2 thousand-yard seasons. I fancied myself a WR when I was young. Yet when I watched games on TV, I always focused on the RB. The combination of finesse, power, speed, athleticism, vision... It fascinated me. Still does.

I suspect part of Beane's cap-management plan is to keep drafting backs and never paying real money for one. You can't spend big at every position... RBs are a dime a dozen... Today's NFL is a passing league. I'm guessing those are his considerations. I think Cook walks.

You can't just look at stats which are significantly determined by talent of the OL, play design, play-calling, rules of the era, defenses of the era, and so on. OJ played when hashmarks were wider, so the offense was often squeezed against one side of the field making play calls more predictable. Offensive lineman couldn't block with their hands the way they could later. Defenses were still built to stop the run in OJ's day but were focused on the pass by the time Barry played. In 1973, the Bills had no passing attack (less than 1,000 yards for the entire season) so opposing defenses had to do just one thing to win - stop OJ - and they couldn't do it. OJ played in more open-air stadiums and more crap weather... In the end, it's subjective. There's no scientifically or mathematically precise way to say who was better. But in my opinion, having watched them both play, OJ's the better running back. Just for fun, this is a list of the best running back seasons ranked by how dominant he was vis-a-vis the other RBs that year:

Doc, this is very interesting but I don't think it tells us a lot unless we're playing football archaeologist and trying to understand the past. I don't think its predictive. I don't think the 2024 version of Brady is going to be the same as the 2023 version. Using the Dorsey playbook, Brady passed about the same, produced fewer passing yards but ran more and produced more rushing yards. I guess the one take-away is that Brady will maybe/probably run a more balanced offense than Dorsey did? That's about it. When asked about Brady's new scheme, Allen recently said this, “I think it remains to be seen, we’re putting in a lot of new stuff, a lot of different concepts that we typically haven’t ran since I’ve been here, which is very exciting for me. I’m learning a whole new offense, and guys are excited." It's possible that Brady will pass more this year than he did last with passing concepts he likes built into playbook. Despite being 6th in scoring, the offense last season (under both OCs) looked suboptimal and stale. I'm hoping this "whole new offense" is better though I'm not sure what to expect.

It sounds like Brady's offense is going to be significantly different than last year's. This is what Josh said: “I think it remains to be seen, we’re putting in a lot of new stuff, a lot of different concepts that we typically haven’t ran since I’ve been here, which is very exciting for me. I’m learning a whole new offense, and guys are excited. I think what coach Brady is doing right now is some really good stuff, and our guys are going out there and executing really well, and we’re just trying to learn, grow, and be the best that we can be.” www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/learning-whole-new-offense-has-bills-josh-allen-excited-for-season-ahead/ar-BB1nqeev?ocid=BingNewsSerp

I still believe there's too much talk about the soldiers and not enough about the generals. This O has Josh and enough other weapons that it could potentially score a bunch of points. Whether or does or not depends on the offense that Brady is able to scheme up and how well he trains the players to execute it. When asked about this year's offense, Allen said this, “I think it remains to be seen, we’re putting in a lot of new stuff, a lot of different concepts that we typically haven’t ran since I’ve been here, which is very exciting for me. I’m learning a whole new offense, and guys are excited. I think what coach Brady is doing right now is some really good stuff, and our guys are going out there and executing really well, and we’re just trying to learn, grow, and be the best that we can be.” Josh tends to be an optimist who supports his coaches so I'm not sure I trust his evaluation when he says this is "some really good stuff." I think the better quote is, "it remains to be seen." I'm hopeful because I'm a Bills fan. I'm not down on this O nor especially excited. But I am very curious.

I grew up in the suburbs of Buffalo but not in a football family. But I knew football was a popular sport so once, when flipping channels looking for cartoons, I came across a football game: Browns vs. Cowboys. The Brownies were losing by two scores. Naturally, being a kid, I rooted for the underdog. When the Browns staged an unlikely comeback, I was hooked. I soon had a Browns football, a Browns pennant, and Paul Warfield became my first football hero. A year or so later, the Bills drafted OJ. There was so much hoopla that I started following the Bills, too. I remained a dual Browns-Bills fan for years. But when I went out of state for college, I started identifying more as a Buffalonian. Rooting for the Bills seemed like a way of demonstrating my loyalty to Buffalo and staying connected to the folks back home. When the Browns moved out of Cleveland in 1995, any vestigial allegiance I had left for them died. I've been a monogamous Bills fan since.

Personally, I think this is a terrible idea. The NFL is currently an American sporting league. Its championship ought to be in America where NFL fans can see it without a passport or transatlantic flight. Someday when we have international franchises we need to start talking about a non-US Super Bowl. Not before. Though I'm against a London SB, I've been wondering how Khan might try to sell the idea to Goodell. And I remembered Goodell is dedicated to growing revenues to $25 billion. Having a Super Bowl in the UK would raise the awareness of American football in England and enhance its branding as an international sport.

A freakish Brit rugby player, a pro lacrosse player (former MVP), and a former gold medal wrestler. I love it!

Elam's been taking boxing classes with the great Joe Messi. And he said something about it that I thought was interesting: "My number one thing is becoming a better me every single day. I think boxing has definitely helped me become that from a physical aspect, but now mental aspect as well, to allow me to stay calm, relaxed and able to execute details and fundamentals without getting stressed out or tense." Is he saying that he's had a problem with getting stressed or tense in football games? Has his struggle been more mental/psychological than physical? ww.wkbw.com/sports/buffalo-bills/i-love-it-buffalo-bills-cornerback-kaiir-elam-using-boxing-to-improve-mental-and-physical-health

Thanks, Alpha. This actually makes me feel better. While I wasn't sad in the slightest when Dorsey was canned, I didn't jump on the Brady train either. As a fan, it felt like the O didn't get any better overall when Brady took the reins and the passing game actually got worse. I may not have been considering the strength of the defenses Brady faced. And part of my feeling of disappointment may have simply been me hoping for more. Over the past few years, we've had some beautiful streaks of consecutive 30+ point games. I wanted Brady to give me that. I still do.

I never played beyond the HS level so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. But it seems to me that you have to be athletically gifted to be good at press/man coverage which Elam is. Playing zone requires less athleticism. You do need some quickness as one guy leaves your zone and another enters it - or as you read the play differently as it develops. And you do need smarts to understand what's going on around you. Elam seems to possess both adequate quickness and smarts. So it's puzzling to me why he still struggles. It seems like he's had more than enough time to figure out how to play effectively in McD's defense. Intellectually, it's not that hard. While Butler was a talented DB coach, maybe having a new position coach will be good for Elam. I hope so because (1) he seems like a good, hard-working kid, and (2) we could use another quality CB.

Wholeheartedly agree. Allen has a talent for running and we'd be dumb not to use it. But we'd be dumb to overuse it when it (presumably) heightens the risk of injury. It felt like the passing game underperformed most of last year. There were games when Josh looked a little off - either throwing to the wrong guy or just off with his placement. And there were games where we weren't seeing a lot of open receivers. And while the OL was better than previous seasons, there were days when Josh made a struggling OL look good by rolling around and avoiding the rush. We can't fix all of that. But I hope Brady schemes a better offense than what we saw last year. If he does, we won't have to rely on Josh's legs very often.

Brady said... “I think the guys last year — obviously it wasn’t exactly how we wanted, and didn’t end how we wanted it to end. But the guys kind of played together and it’s kind of, hey, in this offense, everyone is going to eat. And they’ve got to have the mindset that it’s not just about one person — no one’s bigger than the offense. But, in order for someone else to have success, I’ve got to do my job so they have success and then vice versa. So that’s the biggest thing that we’re preaching right now.” The biggest thing Brady's preaching is that everyone needs to do their job - even if it's not time for them to eat. In other words, teamwork and high effort on every play. If that's his biggest thing to preach this year, is it because he didn't believe we had that going on last year? That's what I think. As he said, "The guys kind of played together" last season.

If anything, I pay more attention to the Bills. It's the extra incentive you mentioned. Since McD and Beane arrived, I feel like every season we have a chance to win a Super Bowl. A slim chance maybe but it's not 1,000 to 1. Maybe 10 to 1 and that's enough to grab hold of my hope and blow it up. So I watch the team closely to see if maybe this is finally the year.

Agreed. The narrative on him has been that he's good at press coverage and man-to-man but the Bills primarily employ zone which he doesn't excel at. How does size impact your ability to play zone? Zone requires smarts and quickness, and Elam doesn't seem to lack either. He may be a bad fit for the Bills but not because of his size. The whole thing is puzzling, and I feel like we're not getting the whole story.

I don't think Brady is saying he won't do this. I think he's saying he's building his offense around the skills of the players on the roster. And that starts with Josh. I'm sure Brady has the desire to scheme guys open but it remains to be seen if he has the ability.

I don't think the do-nothing camp looks defeatist at all. While I don't necessarily agree, I think they're just being prudent. I suppose it partly depends on how you evaluate the current squad and whether or not it has glaring needs. Apparently, you see WR as a glaring need. Orlovsky and others seem to think differently.

When I got in trouble as a kid, my mom would slowly call out my full name: first name... middle name... last name... If I had Davis's name, I'd be out the door before she got to Jamar: "Re'Mahn Walter Zhamar Jamar Davis, where do you think you're going?!?!"

I just want to mention the obvious... When I think of the leaders of this defense over the past few years, I first think of Matt Milano. As far as the identity - McD isn't going to change his scheme very much when it's mostly worked. While it's broken down in the playoffs, I'm guessing that he doesn't see that as a schematic problem as much as a roster & injury problem. So I think this will look a lot like previous years maybe with a few tweaks as he adapts to different personnel. McD philosophically prefers to pressure with the front four. But if that doesn't work, he's not afraid to blitz. So maybe we'll blitz more than what's been the norm. Overall, it'll be a solid, well-coaching defense with excellent teamwork. But it won't be an elite, stifling D because there's just isn't enough individual talent. I wonder what wrinkles, if any, Bobby Babich will bring. When I see him at pressers, he looks like he's in his late twenties, so I think he won't have much to offer. But the guy is actually 40, with 18 years of coaching experience. About half of his time in the NFL has been with McD so I think he's probably a McD protege & disciple. It'll be good that the two will understand each other and work together well. But I wonder how much he'll be able to challenge McD with divergent opinions?