hondo in seattle
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Posts posted by hondo in seattle
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Judging from your post I would almost guarantee that you would score higher than a 4. However, I would certainly guarantee that Claiborne could absorb a defensive scheme and it's corresponding playbook far better than you. For all of you mentally superior fans I find it amusing that many can't grasp what our defensive alignments actually are week after week and yet arguably the best CB in the draft is considered doomed in the NFL because of a Wonderlic score. The young man will get drafted early, he will get paid, and he will probably play very well for years to come. FWIW, the most brilliant guy I have ever been around when it comes to architectural drawings and running bridge work was borderline illiterate.
The Wonderlic already has it's critics and it will have many more if Claiborne becomes a star. And I think that's possible. I certainly don't think he's "doomed." I just think it's easier to coach someone with good learning/analytical skills.
This is from PFT:
Long-time Buccaneers cornerback Ronde Barber echoed on Wednesday something many have said since LSU cornerback Morris Claiborne’s score on the Wonderlic test surfaced on Tuesday: The 50-question general intelligence test is irrelevant to on-field ability.
“I don’t think it’s a factor,” Barber tells NFL.com. “I don’t think it really translates into the football IQ . . . I wouldn’t pay much attention to it.”
So why then does the NFL continue to administer the test? Former Cowboys and Dolphins coach Jimmy Johnson said Tuesday via Twitter that “90% of my misses were because I took a chance on marginal intelligence.”
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Heres the thing about having a deep threat, theyre useless if the qb cant throw it deep accurately, Fitz's deep ball sucks, so why target a one dimensional deep threat
+1
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God forbid the Bills front office does its due diligence.
PTR
I get the 'due diligence' argument. But not really. Are we doing due diligence on Luck and RGIII? So why do due diligence on Richardson when we know we won't draft him? Even if he fell to #10, we wouldn't take him. Would we? Any chance he falls to the second round???
We don't fly everyone to One Bills Drive. Why Richardson?
Smoke screen? Maybe. But would we waste Richardson's time as part of some odd deception plan?
Are we considering trading one of our other backs if we have the chance to get Richardson at #10?
I understand why we're doing due diligence on these other guys. But Richardson confounds me.
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Maybe we want some other team to think we might draft Richardson???
Or maybe - with our new QB coach - we're going to create a cutting-edge offensive attack with 3 RBs in the game at the same time????
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Maybe we're targeting him?
Hmmm.... I hadn't thought of that.
?????
Another RB?
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Now if we can only get a good LT that wants to be here than we can seriously be a threat for the play-offs. I almost feel like Buffalo is the farm team for the Eagles' LT position. We groom 'em and they take 'em! Wtf!
Yeah, that's kind of weird. Both Peters and Bell were really unpolished coming out of college. We taught them both how to be NFL tackles and they both cashed in with the Eagles.
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Per Chris Brown:
The Bills just like every other NFL club are doing their due diligence in the final weeks prior to the NFL draft. Part of that process is pre-draft visits as they tie up any remaining loose ends on prospects. Buffalobills.com has learned that a pair of players widely forecast as first round picks and two other top prospects are making such visits to One Bills Drive today. Alabama RB Trent Richardson and Ohio State OT Mike Adams are the headliners with Syracuse DL Chandler Jones and Wisconsin QB Russell Wilson also visiting.
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Using the wonderlic to try to measure a player's football intelligence (and general intelligence) would be like using a potato sack race to determine how fast they are. There's no correlation.
I agree it's not a great correlation but I wouldn't say 'there's no correlation.' It's gotta be harder on the coaching staff to make a guy with a 4 wonderlic score understand a defense than a guy with a 40.
There's a reason many football teams look at Wonderlic scores. That's because at least some football professionals do see a correlation.
Wasn't one of Edwards downfalls as a Defensive Coordinator that he made his defense too complicated? In other words, some of our players weren't bright enough to execute his good ideas quickly and instinctively. If I was a DC, I'd want bright players who could quickly grasp what I was trying to do. If I didn't have those kind of players, I'd have to "dumb down" the defense. Wanny is supposedly dumbing-down our D this year. But how dumb do we want him to go? You want to retain some complexity to make it difficult for opposing offenses to scheme against us.
Obviously I'd rather have a super athlete with a 4 wonderlic playing DB than a fair athlete with a 40.
But if I had a choice between one super athlete with a 4 and another with a 40, I'd choose the guy with the 40.
As for the imperfection of the Wonderlic... I'm surprised nobody's created an intelligence test specifically for football players that looks at the kinds of things football minds need to be good at. As someone commented earlier, playbooks are mostly diagrams. So a football IQ test would measure, amongst other things, an ability to understand diagrams.
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This would be useful if thw wonderlic actually meant anything. But it doesnt. It's not a test of intelligence or smarts. It does nothing but test how well you take the wonderlic.
Have you ever taken a Wonderlic? You are right when you say it only measures what it measure. Just like combine results. A 40 time doesn't tell you how well someone plays football. It only tells you how fast someone runs the 40. But I wouldn't sign a CB who runs a 5.5.
I have taken a Wonderlic, btw, and I would be seriously concerned about any player scoring a 4. Did he even bother to try? Can he read? NFL playbooks aren't that simple (some old one are available online). You have to at least be able to read.
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And this is the difference between making a team better and spinning your wheels in mediocrity.
Yes the bills have SJ as the #1 WR right now and are looking for a #2. So your saying they shouldn't take someone who has potential to be better because they are only looking for a #2? If you can get a guy with the potential to be better then SJ to be the #2 for now, you do it and give Fitz more weapons on offence. You can't keep ignoring the offence and expect the defence to carry you, look at the 49ers this offseason, they went out and tried to get Peyton and upgrade their WRs cause they learned from last season that a top defence can only carry you so far, you need to score points too.
+1
The more weapons, the better. No one lines up on the field as the #2 WR. There's really no such position. There are two - or more - WRs on the field every play and the more good ones, the more likely you are to score.
Andre Reed was our #1 in the glory days. But the Bills got a future Hall of Famer to play opposite him. It's on of the reasons the K-Gun was so prolific.
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The passing attack was working fine until Fitz broke his ribs and WRs started getting injured and we began playing street FAs. (And Wood went out on IR).
The pass rush never worked except during one freak game.
On top of that, we were switching to the 4-3 without any capable 4-3 DEs on the team (minus perhaps Kelsay). I think Nix began the off season with the idea that he had to find two DEs either in free agency or the draft.
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From Sunday's New York Post:
"All of the attention on Tebow has some Jets shaking their heads. Several current Jets ... asked not to be quoted but expressed disbelief at the team bringing in Tebow. ... The idea of a backup quarterback having a press conference is something they can’t wrap their heads around, and they know it’s just the beginning."
The article also includes a healthy dollop of incredulity from Damien Woody, who we're now 90 percent certain retired just so he could rip on his former team on a semi-weekly basis.
As for The Anonymous Jets, you have to wonder how Tebow will be received when OTAs begin. This is a team that's clearly unsure the direction it's being steered, and Tebow has become the face of that confusion. Welcome to New York, kid.
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I'm not in the Ralph-Is-Cheap cult. He has shown a willingness to pay in the past. And I believe Nix when he says that Wilson doesn't handcuff him.
I think the difference this year is that there was one FA out there that they desperately wanted. With the Bills going back to the 3-4 and lacking anyone who can pressure the QB, Mario Williams was a perfect fit. To sweeten the attraction, Mario is in the prime of his career and the kind of high-character, team-player that Buddy and Chan prefer.
I just don't think they've been enamored with anyone in recent Free Agencies like they were with Mario.
To give Mario a bookend, we've now signed Anderson and don't have to worry about finding a DE in the draft.
I don't think Nix wants to win anymore than Marv did nor do I think he's getting more cash to play with (other than the cap has gone up). I do think Nix is a better GM than Marv and is doing a better job targeting the right players.
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A poll on CBC Sports shows 57% of fans think Sanchez should be the starter and 43% Tebow.
Wonder if the Jets locker room will be equally divided.
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The Colts and Redskins both need QBs and will almost certainly take Luck and RG3. Miami is also desperate for a QB and could easily take Tannehill.
There could easily be 3 QBs off the board by the time we pick. That leaves only 6 teams selecting players we potentially want at #10. Whether it's Blackmon or someone else, we're likely to get someone who will make the Bills appreciably better. I'm excited...
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Yes, Millen's draft record was very poor for sure. However, as someone old enough to have been around for all of those
drafts, I can say that other than Charles Rogers and Mike Williams, none of those first round picks were considered bad
or "reaches" at the time.
Many in Buffalo (and other cities) would have been thrilled to get Joey Harrington. Same could have been said for Roy
Williams. Williams was 6'2.5", 212 lbs, with 4.42 speed and a lot of production at Texas (70 catches, 15 ypc his last
year there for a team not known as a passing team).
My point is not to defend Millen, but rather to say that the draft is very unpredictable. Even guys that look like sure
things can flame out. Scouting is very important, but having some luck on your side helps, too.
That's why amateurs shouldn't be GMs. According to Kiper and the like, Millen didn't reach. But clearly every other GM in the league was wiser than Millen and made better picks over that time.
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That may be true. It is not a given.
There is no reason a professional scout cannot post on this site. Just sayin'.
Matt Millen was paid to be a GM. In fact, he was the highest paid GM in the NFL.
Anyway, what were the criteria for evaluation of the "bet" angle? If Matt's Bag says that he'd have selected some set of players and Buddy selected some other set -- we'll have unimpeachable evidence as to whether Buddy "got it right" but the choices Matt's Bag makes would be totally uncertain ... assuming they are not drafted by the exact same team other than the Bills. Anyway, just curious... interesting thread by the way.
Professional scouts here? It may be true. We have professional sports journalists posting here from time to time. I suspect players/ex-players visit TBD occasionally. Why couldn't a scout post?
Matt Millen? I mentioned him earlier and you are right. Most GMs and scouts know more than the average fan. Not sure about Matt.
Here would be a good test of a fan's ability to draft... During the draft, when ever the Bills have a pick, we could make our own pick. Then evaluate our picks in 3 years.
"Sisyphean Bills" is a great nickname by the way, an accurate if depressing one.
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Personally, I think I can scout college talent better than Nix.
I can also pilot the airplane better than the "captain", drive better than whoever is in the car in front of me (especially if that person doesn't have a Y chromosome), and coach any NFL team to more wins than Gailey.
But I'm kinda awesome at stuff.
Rumor has it that Marv wanted to bring you in as his replacement but the Competition Committee disallowed it citing "unfair advantage."
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I also did NOT claim a better talent scout than Nix,, but that I could DRAFT as well. BIG DIFFERENCE. I would simply be using a a professional scouts magazine's "big board".
Some of the draft guru big boards are well-researched and not that bad. Still, if these guys making these publications were so good, why wouldn't a team hire them?
Of course, some professional draftniks like Gil Brandt do have NFL experience. But Gil will tell you that he doesn't know college prospects as well now as he used to when he and his staff studied college players full time all year long.
I would trust Nix FAR MORE to run our draft than some fan following the big board out of some sports rag.
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Spags, good to see you here though you are so very wrong.
The two big winners in free agency have been the Broncos and Bills.
The Jets made their team worse: (1) Tebow will create a QB controversy on a team that already has a disunited locker room and, (2) you wasted draft picks to achieve #1.
Good luck to you anyway. I wouldn't mind seeing the Bills #1 in the AFCE, the Jets #2 with the Pats in the basement.
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I recall, as others do, that he was moved to the OL right after preseason.
Some speculated that his short tenure on defense was some kind of ruse so other teams wouldn't sign him when we moved him to the practice squad. I'm not sure about that. It was odd, though, that we played him at one position in preseason only to have him on the PS at another position.
It will be interesting to see this preseason how this mountainous man has progressed.
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As some of you know me, you know I coached 5 years in high school and 12 years at the JC level. Two years ago we had over 100 guys on the team and almost all of them had some talent but being at the JC level there are way more issues with size, speed, and especially character.There is pressure to pick the right guys even at that level. You are basically scouting and watching film albeit at a much smaller scale but some of you guys don't really understand.. I am NOT NEARLY qualified to be a scout at the pro level but I know several that do/have and you guys really don't know what u are talking about if you think you have the skill set to do what these guys do. If you showed up @Texas A&M's practice and went over to the linemen what exactly would you be looking for ,hmmm? My son is coaching and scouting JC.HS player for a FCS Div. achool and he is looking at tape, cutting tape about 12-16 hours a day EVERYDAY
Bottom line yeah teams mke big mistakes and the Bills have made plenty and it's great that we share our opinionsbut if you have a skilled type job then i can't do yours and you can'd do Buddy's.
I'm with you. Scouts are hired in the first place because they really know this business. After being hired they spend ungodly hours analyzing tape, interviewing coaches, interviewing players, etc. Somebody who does this as a hobby just can't compete.
It's both arrogant and insulting for us to think we can do a GM's or scout's job.
If any of us were really that smart, some team would pay us. But good luck to anyone here trying to find a job as a scout.
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Fans have the luxury of throwing all the darts they want. NFL GMs only get one shot. Fans were "right" about Ngata and Orakpo. How right were they about Bowers, Clausen, Tebow, Leinert, etc?
PTR
+1
We've seen lots of college names championed here over the years by draftniks. Most of these names have quickly faded into obscurity.
Draftniks are like Edgar Cayce. They like to celebrate the one or two predictions they got right and forget the many dozen they whiffed on.
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As an amateur, I often did a better job scouting talent than Russ Brandon, Marv Levy and Tom Donahoe. So yeah, it's going to take some time for me to completely trust Buddy Nix and his decision-making. He's been a mixed bag so far.
Honestly, I don't think it's that hard to spot talent - even if you are just a fan. I think these scouts and "experts" overthink themselves, when 95% of the time it comes down to production on the field. Not combine numbers, Wonderlic scores and pro days. Just some examples:
> Coming out of college, I felt that Bryant McKinnie was a better LT prospect than Mike Williams. But our front office went for size over talent. I was right. They were wrong.
> When we let Pat Williams go in free agency, I made the comment that it was "the beginning of the end" for our dominant defense. It's been downhill ever since.
> I saw JP Losman as a first-round reach and Willis McGahee is a wasted pick that would force us to trade Travis Henry. I was right in both cases.
> If I was drafting instead of Marv Levy and Russ Brandon, we would have grabbed Haloti Ngata and Brian Orakpo instead of Donte Whitner and Aaron Maybin. I also thought Patrick Willis and Adrian Peterson were two of the rare players worth trading up for.
I hated Nix's first draft (Spiller, Troup, Carrington, etc.) and his first year of free agent pickups (Dwan Edwards, Andre Davis). Two seasons later, we've got almost nothing to show from those additions to the team. Last year, I felt Nix did a lot better job - particularly in drafting Marcel Dareus and nabbing Nick Barnett in free agency. Lo and behold, they were our two best pickups.
For the record, I liked us drafting Aaron Williams and Kelvin Sheppard, but I preferred us taking Ryan Mallett in either the 2nd or 3rd round. We will see how that pans out.
Using a few anecdotes from the top of the draft to prove you can evaluate talent isn't a compelling argument. Any NFL fan can say they were right about this or that pick when the establishment was wrong.
Here's a tougher test. Could any of us fans actually act as a GM and run drafts year after year that added more talent to the team than the NFL average? The answer, without question, is no.
Why is Trent Richardson in Buffalo?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Okay... I guess I'm buying this.
If this guy is the next Jim Brown, I want him. Otherwise, I'm very content with Jackson/Spiller and don't want another good back. Too many other, bigger needs.