hondo in seattle

Apparently, a lot of Lions were sad and/or angry when Schwartz was fired. In the words of Joe Fauria, "He loved us and we loved him back." http://www.prideofde...eact/in/5015389

Good find. Confirms what many of us have been saying - the guy's produced pretty merely average results. I'm not sure what Marrone sees in Hackett, Crossman, or Schwartz. Nothing in any of their resumes screams "winner."

Is it too late for the mods to break this into two threads? One about Schwartz, one about Downing. I'm easily confused.

I wonder if the Analytics Department provided Marrone with any feedback regarding Schwartz's resume. Most of us looking at his past stats are unimpressed.

I like the "Yards per Drive" stat when looking at DCs because some offenses force their defenses to be on the field a lot so, of course, those defenses are going to give up more total yards than a defense that only faces the opposing O eight or ten times in a game. Here's how Schwartz's Titan D was ranked in yards per drive when he was last a DC: 2001 26th 2002 16th 2003 13th 2004 26th 2005 18th 2006 29th 2007 5th 2008 5th Overall, it's a mediocre record. But at the end of his tenure in Tennessee he finished 5th twice in a row. Was there an influx of talent? Or did he become a better DC? I'm hoping it was the latter.

The Bills offense was 26th in average drive length. Too many 3 and outs. Yet our defense was #1 in average opponent drive length! And that was in Pettine's first year with the Bills. I'm imagining that he would have done better statistically overall next year. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats I don't know what kind of HC Pettine will be, but he was a good DC and I was looking forward to awesome things from the him and our D in 2014.

In 2012, the Bills gave up 5.0 yards per carry. In 2013, the Bills gave up 4.4 yards per carry. More work remains but Pettine made huge progress in both run and pass defense. Some of the progress is obscured by the fact the Bills 'D' was on the field so much. The Bills D faced the 7th most scrimmage plays in the NFL because our offense didn't sustain long drives. Naturally we gave up more yards than some other teams. But Pettine's D only gave up 4.9 yards per play - one of the best averages in the league. By comparison, Denver gave up 5.3 yards per play and they're in the Super Bowl. Pettine's loss is only good news if we hire someone even better. But there aren't a lot of better guys available. Most of the better DCs are already employed.

Crossman retained; Pettine lost. I'm not liking the postseason so far.

It's like playing McDonalds Monopoly and saying you're only missing one piece for the million dollar prize. That one piece is unique - only one printed for the whole country - and everyone is missing that very same piece. Missing a franchise QB is a huge deal. Let's hope EJ takes a big jump forward in 2014. But we might be missing the right HC, too. And OC. All these pieces are hard to find. As we look for them, we'll lose other pieces. FAs will move on. Other players will age and lose a step. Making the Bills equal to the Hawks is no easy thing.

If Brady became a Bill, I'd be a huge Tom Brady fan.

I haven't seen this. Inspirational. Thanks for sharing.

I voted for Marrone but it's a silly vote. Marrone has exactly one year of HC experience. Pettine has zero experience as a college or pro HC and only 1 true year as a DC. There's just not much to compare. Unless you're an insider and know things the rest of us don't, I don't know how you could vote for Pettine. The guy clearly did a great job with the defense this past year but could he run an entire team? Does he have CEO qualities? Could he attract and retain good coordinators? Work well with a GM? I still don't even know how good a DC he is. He certainly did better than Wanny. But wouldn't several other NFL DCs have done just as well as Pettine - or better - with our talent? In the end both Marrone and Pettine may turn out to be great NFL HCs. Or neither. It's all just speculation now. Both have relatively thin resumes.

If you're a HC with a DC background, you might not want an tenured DC with an established philosophy running your defense. You might want someone younger/less established who you can teach your philosophy to.

It's still all speculation but there seems to be three general possibilities regarding Ike's dismissal: Ike and the players. Maybe Marrone didn't think he did a good job coaching and developing our young receivers. No one can claim our WRs excelled on the field. Ike and the coaches. Perhaps Ike didn't get along with Hackett or one of the other coaches. Maybe he was argumentative with fellow coaches or criticized them behind their backs. Ike outside the Bills. Maybe Ike has personal problems that interfered with work. Marrone's comment about 'differences in philosophy' suggests - vaguely - the second possibility but it's hard to know. Marrone clearly didn't want to be specific.

McKelvin averaged something like 17 yards per punt return in 2011 and 2012. In 2013, he averaged, I think, 5.6 yds. That's a dramatic drop off. Did McKelvin suddenly become slow and clumsy? Or did the coaching change?

Maybe Chan saw some real potential in Edwards that he just wasn't able to develop. Maybe Zimmer, a strong veteran DC, will be able to mentor Edwards in ways Chan couldn't. Zimmer will probably be calling the shots in any case.

I used to think like this but no more. Your success or failure as a Head Coach is highly dependent on the quality and support of the front office. Al Davis - toward the end of his life - had trouble getting quality coordinators to interview for his perpetually open head coach position, and rightly so. If I were Pettine, I might pass if offered.

We gave up more long runs than any team in the NFL... Driesbach had no NFL experience... He had never been a LB coach before... I guess Marrone considered Driesbach a swing and a miss. Maybe Marrone or Pettine have a better replacement already lined up. I'm giving Marrone a pass on this one.

Yeah, this article made me feel sad. If Driesbach didn't see this coming, Pettine and Marrone did something wrong. This is Management 101. If someone is under-performing, they should be told what their mistakes and weakness are - so they have a chance to correct them - before termination. Driesbach seemed genuinely shocked, and clueless as to the reason why. But we only have his side of the story and that may be all we ever get (unless JW digs up the other side).

Just out of curiosity, why does Marrone need to "maintain public integrity"? Personally, I don't think he needs to explain his thinking on every single matter. What matters is that his players and coaches believe in him and I get the sense that they do (though who really knows outside the locker room?). The public doesn't need to believe. They'll believe when he starts winning. There are times when going public might not be in the best interest of the team. On another note, I thought this quote in the Buffalo News was interesting... '“That pains me, I’m not going to lie,” admitted Bills defensive line coach Anthony Weaver the week before the end of the season. “The thing that gets me is a lot of the time it’s gash plays. It’s not like they’re milking us for 5 yards at a time and working their way down the field. … To me it’s the 20-yarders, the 30-yarders, those are the things that are killing us.”' While Weaver was unhappy with his own unit, he wasn't exactly praising the LB play either.

+1 I wish our OL could open holes like the Pats line has been opening recently.

I'm not sure QBR is the perfect stat for measuring QBs but that's really a moot point. The bigger point is that we all know EJ didn't play very well in 2013 but none of us know how well he'll play in 2014.

JW, it's not a fair analogy. Crossman has been in the league for years. He's not getting better. He doesn't have a record of making ST units better. EJ is in his first year as a pro and he's improving. We don't know what EJ's ceiling is. EJ deserves another year. Crossman probably didn't deserve his first year and has done nothing to prove the doubters wrong. Crossman's results do very with talent, which confirms Marrone's comment about core players, but the scary thing is that - on average - Crossman's ST units average 22nd in the league. That's not a good record. And has been pointed out, his trend is that he seems to make teams worse over time rather than better.

I agree. I don't see enough holes for the backs to run through. Nor do I see enough push in short yardage situation. In short yardage, we're actually getting pushed back more often than not. Pass protection could be better too. Clearly guys like Brady and Brees simply have more talent than many of their peers. But there's a strong correlation between pass protection and passing productivity. QBs with clean pockets usually do well. EJ, CJ and Fredex would all benefit from a better O Line.

I don't want to defend Crossman - who should be fired I think - but how much of the blame belongs to Marrone? I've heard that the reason the results a guy like Bobby April gets varies from team to team is because of these two variables: (1) ST talent and, (2) head coach philosophy. Different head coaches have different attitudes toward special teams. Some devote far more practice time to ST. Marv Levy gave it more attention that most head coaches, for example. Maybe Marrone doesn't want to take time away from the offense or defense. Maybe he's retaining Crossman because he knows he's partly to blame.