hondo in seattle

I so disagree. I'd probably take a healthy Freddy in his prime over any of these guys. You gotta remember the line Freddy ran behind when he was in his prime. He got all those yards on his own. I believe he was 1st or 2nd in the league one year in Yards After Contact (too lazy to look it up). He was exciting to watch back then. I think Freddy would have produced Thurman like numbers if he had played in the early 90s - and stayed healthy. Where he ranks in Bills history is debatable. The Bills have not been blessed with a lot of good QBs but we have been blessed with some dynamic backs.

He's been my favorite Bill since he was a backup years ago. Even then you could see he acted with class and played with determination. If he had played on a better team and stayed healthy, he would have been invited to multiple Pro Bowls. While his character is widely praised, I still think his talent is often underestimated.

I live in Seattle and would have trouble naming 5 players from the Seahawk squad despite their Super Bowl run. I'm not even slightly a fan. I'm not much of a NFL fan as far as that goes. I'm a Bills fan and will always be a Bills fan. I get a lot of grief from 'Hawk fans and that's great - it's all part of the fun of the sport.

It is interesting that there's been so little talk about our D. But with Kiko out and Byrd gone, will it be good enough to win low scoring games? With Crossman running ST, I'm not expecting a lot there. And both Hackett and EJ are unproven youngsters. I worry about 2 of the 3 units.

Huh? The Star? You're using the Star to make a point? That's worse than using Wikipedia. Far worse. During Desert Storm some of my soldiers were interviewed by a reporter from the New York Times. The reporter had a canned, incendiary quote written before the interview and asked if anyone was willing to have it attributed to them. One of my naive young privates - who never said anything like the quote - said the reporter could attribute it to him. When it hit the papers, a PR firestorm ensued. If a reputable newspaper like the NYT does stuff like this, what low journalism standards can we expect from the Star? To me, Brady is just a football player. I have no opinion of him as a human being because I don't know him personally. All I know is that he's a good QB who plays for the wrong team.

Good summary

Best: 10-6 Worst: 4-12 Most Likely: 8-8 (yep, benderbender, my grapes have apparently withered to raisins)

I wouldn't be surprised if Orton supplanted EJ at some point this season. But that might not mean the end of EJ. Orton is an aging journeyman. EJ is a learning youngster and 1st round draft pick. EJ could potentially sit behind Orton for year or so before taking the reins back from him.

Whatever your point of view, didn't this ship already sail?

"When a pickpocket walks down the street, all he sees are pockets." The OP isn't an EJ fan - clearly - and only seems to notice the bad stuff and miss the good. It's hard to know what the players truly think of EJ. But certainly a number of them have praised him this year.

I think the Bills have 10 or 11 new starters (counting old starters in new positions). It may take a while for the team to gel (if it ever does).

Fair enough point. But even 1st round QBs have a fairly low success rate in the NFL. Given the importance of the position, I was among those advocating for the Bills to draft another QB this year. If Manuel crashes and burns this year, Orton will suffice as a caretaker. But we'll have to wait until next year to roll the dice in the draft again.

Orton is, by far, my favorite pick from the QBs realistically available. In 2009 and 2010, when Orton started for Denver and had some talent around him, he completed about 60% of his passes for a QB rating of about 87. His more recent stats with Dallas are even better, though in very limited action. Having started 70 games for 4 different teams, he's a perfect mentor for EJ. Regards to comparisons to Fitz: I really have trouble understanding how anyone who witnessed both them play could rate them as equals. I really like Fitz but his arm is neither as strong nor as accurate as Orton's. As for Orton's pay, I have to guess that we paid what we had to pay. I'm glad Whaley and company anted up instead of going the season with Tuel as the backup. If EJ fails, Orton will take over and do reasonably well. Then next year we'll draft another QB with an early pick. If EJ succeeds, he'll be aided by Orton's experience. This was a very good signing.

Given that none of our 3 young QBs have improved much - if at all - from last year, does anyone else worry about the coaching they're receiving?

I actually thought Lewis could be a good #2 when I watched him last year. Considering how little preparation he had, I thought he looked okay when thrown into action. And Tuel seemed to have a live arm and just needed to be coached up. Apparently Whaley thought similarly. And we both turned out to be wrong. So now we're shopping and kicking tires. OBD clearly made a mistake but I don't know if it "reeks of incompetence."

I don't think it is a "completely different game." Certainly both the rules and offense schemes have evolved in ways that help QB stats. But football is still football. I think the stats tell a story: neither EJ nor Jim were stellar in their first ten starts. But that's a pretty meaningless story. Lots of HOF QBs have had crappy starts as have lots of sh*tty QBs. Nothing in these numbers tell us what kind of QB EJ will be. EJ lovers think they see something beyond the numbers - strong arm, good study habits, etc. - that will help him eventually excel in the NFL. EJ haters think they see something beyond the numbers - "slow eyes," lack of competitive passion, etc. - that will prevent him from excelling in the NFL. The numbers themselves don't tell us much about EJ's potential.

And they cut him early so he would have the opportunity to latch on with another team.

I'd sign Orton. Orton would need some time to learn the offense which would give EJ time to prove he's ready to step up. I'm not sure how long I'd wait but at some point if EJ wasn't producing, I'd hand things over to Orton (who is not a bad QB). Even if Orton didn't end up starting, he'd be a good mentor for EJ and an insurance policy if EJ got hurt.

Really? It's like me saying I know more about your work than you do. I used to be an army officer and was struck by the clueless arrogance of some of the correspondents reporting on military operations. They had no idea what they were talking about but pontificated with confidence. Marrone, Hackett, et al might not be geniuses. They might not be winners. But they sure as heck know more about NFL talent evaluation than anyone here. We have no idea what concerns the coaching staff are sharing with each other, or what schemes they might be devising to work around EJ's weaknesses. They're not going to talk about these things publicly of course.

Preseason is never the time to panic. We all remember Levy, Kelly and company going 0-4 in preseason in 1990. In fact, I don't believe the Bills ever had a winning preseason record during the SB years. Preseason is a time for vanilla offenses, vanilla defenses and talent evaluation. Not for panic. When Trent Green injured himself in a preseason game in 1999, Rams fans began to worry. Worry turned to panic when they turned the team over to a former stockboy with a 47.2 QB rating in his limited NFL action. And thus began "The Greatest Show on Turf" - which produced a victory in SB XXXIV. So I wait until we start screwing up in real games before I panic.

An exceptionally quick, athletic, poised QB could have got this to Fred. But the main problem here is the OL broke down and did not provide adequate protection. Hindsight is 20-20. Yes, EJ does seem to glance at Fred. But no QB will always make the perfect decision with a second or two to react when facing rapid unexpected pressure. This one play doesn't damn EJ. Lots of Hall of Fame QBs have made comparable errors.

Just to play devil's advocate, I'll chime in with Hogan because EJ will know where Hogan's going to be.

The Jags reportedly sold for $760 million a couple years ago. Buffalo is small market and the sale of the Bills involves a restrictive lease and restrictive NDA. And who knows what else the trust is requesting that might temper the bidding. Furthermore, we don't really know what anyone is bidding. Unnamed sources are reporting bids anywhere from $800 million to $1.3 billion. I don't think any part of this process is embarrassing to the NFL. In fact, I suspect Jamestown native Roger Goodell is happy with how things are playing out so far. I bet he's a closet Bills fan so he'll be thrilled if Pegula buys the team at whatever price. The only thing that would make Goodell and the NFL happier is if WNY builds a new state-of-the-art stadium.

I really don't see this as a bad thing. The players got a little feisty. Good! Players need to have some passion, some fight in them. Marrone reined them in. Good. A coach is supposed to establish discipline. Let me tell a story about when I was a tank platoon leader in the army stationed in Korea. A group of my soldiers got into a fight with a group of soldiers from another battalion. My battalion commander asked me about the event. I confessed it was true. He told me that it was unprofessional and couldn't be condoned. But then he added, speaking in a low voice, "But tell me something, do your guys win?" I replied in a serious tone, "Sir, we kicked their asses." And he said something to the effect of, "Great!!! The army's too soft these days. We want soldiers who are fighters - who have that warrior spirit!" He also took consolation that the losers were from another battalion, not his. I think Marrone is like my old colonel. He has to establish discipline but, at the same time, appreciates the warrior spirit.

I used to believe this (kind of) but now I wonder if Fitz just threw the ball toward some general area and Stevie got himself there. Stevie is talented but his creative freelancing was hard on EJ and is apparently hard on Kap too.