hondo in seattle

I can understand your sentiment. But Napoleon and Caesar are gone and people still talk about them. Some people are just interested in history - recent or ancient. My own interest in Marrone stems from the disparity of the picture I had of him before he quit and the very different picture that's developing now. The Mehta articles/tweets and the Casullo interview really shifted my paradigm. Initially, I was disappointed he quit but now I'm glad he's gone. Though it's still hard to filter out all the misinformation, self promotion and character assassination.

Welcome! On this board you'll find a varied assortment of casual fans, NFL gurus, Kool-Aid drinkers, Sky-is-Falling cynics, trolls, old men, teenagers, charlatans, frauds and madmen... and an occasional Packers or Jets fan. Hopeful's summary is spot-on. If you don't want the QB benched or at least one coach fired, you won't fit in here. And, of course, on draft day we're all smarter than the GM.

Hopeful is probably right in saying Marrone is a little bit both SD and DD. Before he quit, I thought Marrone was more SD, but the reports that keep coming out since his departure make me think the DD description may be more accurate. It will be interesting to see what happens to Marrone post-Bills. I won't root for him. I won't root against him. But I will track him out of curiosity.

Yeah.... I don't know what qualifications Mike has to be President nor the qualifications Kyle has to be HC. But Mike has been (past tense) a good HC in the NFL and Kyle is viewed as an up-and-coming OC that may be a HC someday. Throw in Schwartz and this could be a good coaching staff.

I don't know if this is true. But it does make sense. Clearly, the Pegulas didn't think the world of Marrone. If they had thought he was a winner, they could have met his demands. Instead they made the considered decision to let him walk. But maybe, as you say, they may have actually pushed him out the door. And based on everything I've read since his departure - not to mention his sub .500 HC record - I thank them for it.

The Cleveland Plain Dealer now reporting it is indeed a package deal. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/01/3_teams_interested_in_kyle_sha.html 49ers and Raiders reportedly considering the same package. I spent the past 10 minutes googling and can't find where I saw that. I won't say it was a reputable source because I just don't remember. My apologies.

It's just been reported that the Bills have requested permission to interview Kyle Shanahan for our vacant HC position. We've already interviewed Mike Shanahan and that interview supposedly went well. I remember when DJ was fired, some on the board were saying Mike Shanahan would be an acceptable HC coach as long as he didn't bring his son along with him. Now we're interviewing the son, supposedly for the HC position. But could a package deal be in the works? Could Whaley and the Pegulas be considering bringing both Shanahans here?

Even though I would prefer an offensive minded head coach under the circumstances, I had to vote for Quinn. I think Schwartz has been solid as our DC. He implemented a new defensive system, despite the successes we had the year before, and created player buy-in and made it work almost instantly. Paired with with a good OC, he could win some games. But his failure in Detroit worries me. It's hard to evaluate Gase when a superstar veteran runs his offense. Of course it's productive. I think Frank Reich might be a good HC someday but right now, Yikes!, his resume is thin.

That's an interesting list. Thanks for doing the homework. Some quarterbacks get better with experience; some don't. Some coaches get better with experience; some don't. Harvey Johnson only won 1 games as the HC of the Buffalo Bills back in 1968. But he learned important lessons from that experience and perfected the craft of coaching over the next couple years. So we gave him another chance to be our Head Coach in 1971 and he won another game. The second-time is not always a charm.

I’m starting to think Doug Marrone is some kind of Janus headed monster suffering from Dissociative Personality Disorder. Because as I read TBD and media reports, I’m sensing there are two distinct Doug Marrones. Saint Doug. This Doug is a great coach who first earned much-deserved national attention turning around Syracuse’s miserable football program. Saint Doug’s great reputation in the coaching community allowed him to first lure Mike Pettine to Buffalo and then Jim Schwartz. Together they built a top five defense. Doug was less successful on offense because Doug Whaley and the front offense misfired on QB and OL decisions. Nevertheless, Saint Doug led this talent-poor team to its first winning record in a decade. Losing Saint Doug will set the franchise back. Douche Doug. This Doug is a poor coach who had a winning record this season thanks only to Jim Schwartz and great defensive players the FO has collected for this team. While DD’s not-ready-for-prime-time protégé held the title of Offensive Coordinator, it was Douche Doug’s scheme that failed so miserably at moving the ball offensively. Despite his background as an offensive lineman and OL coach, our offensive line regressed under his piss poor tutelage. Douche Doug’s Neanderthal interpersonal skills have alienated the several members of the FO, team, and media. His game management and motivational skills aren’t at the NFL level and it’s no surprise he has a losing win-loss record as a HC. The Pegulas were wise to let DD go. Retired GM extraordinaire, Bill Polian, seemed enamored with Saint Doug when he called him a Coach of the Year candidate just a few weeks ago. Manish Mehta has been providing a pretty interesting picture of Douche Doug as an overrated, abrasive, control-freak in articles for the NY Daily News as well as on Twitter. I wonder, which is the real Doug Marrone? And I wonder if the players are missing him, or rejoicing at his departure.

My prediction is that Marrone will make 4 million this year fishing. Or he'll make 4.5 million as an OL coach somewhere.

As has been previously noted, if all the media reports are true, the Bills are interviewing something like a dozen candidates. I'm glad - though not surprised - they're doing thorough due diligence. And it seem like all the candidates are NFL guys.

I'm old school and would prefer an open-air stadium. I wonder though if a roofed stadium would be better for (1) attracting free agents, and (2) getting at least an outside chance to host a SB some day.

I had never heard this story before. Thanks. Polian, in his book, made it sound more like a Polian-versus-Littman thing and took some blame for the bad relationship. In fact, Polian says him and Ralph remained friends throughout the years. And we have a lot of hints over the years that LIttman, Overdorf, and Berchtold (and others?) enjoyed Ralph's trust and were basically untouchable. Of course, the Old Guard was once the New Guard but I still think there's been some problems with them in terms of how responsive they were to the ideas and needs of the coaches. Looking at all this is like seeing an iceberg. There's definitely something there. But we're all inferring the other 90% differently.

I also find that part worrisome. You would think that Whaley takes it as a slap in the face. But there are a couple teams that have gone further (most recently Philly) where the GM (or the person with those duties, whatever the title) reports to the Head Coach.

I'm sure the Pegulas have a plan and I'm sure they haven't shared it with Sully. So Sully's going to add 2+2 and come up with 6. It's what he does. 6 is always a more interesting answer than 4. So Orton retires. Every player eventually retires. So the Pegulas didn't hire a czar right away. Most teams don't have czars, they have GMs just like the Bills. So Marrone quit. The Pegulas could have extended his contract and had him stay. Let's be clear, they let him walk obviously because they didn't believe in him enough to spend the money. The guy has a .500 college record and a sub .500 pro record. How much do any of us believe in him? The Pegulas obviously think they can do better than Marrone and God bless them if they want someone better! So Marrone gets $4 million. (1) the Pegulas can afford it, and (2) the dumb opt out clause was written before Pegs bought the Bills. So the Pegulas are going to be part of the interview process. That's not unusual, and I personally want our new owners to get involved and educate themselves. In the army we used to say, "The leader is in the critical place at the critical time." The Pegulas should be involved in the interviews. I don't see how these facts add up to the Pegulas being in over their head. I can't believe people still take Sully seriously. He's made it clear time and time again that he's not an objective, balanced reporter. He's someone who likes to stir the pot and here he goes again. Actual facts are never an obstacle for Sully. This is the guy who just recently accused Sammy of tweeting that Buffalo was a boring city when Sammy was actually in Florida and referring to a city down there. When learning of Sully's mistake, Sammy called him as a "clueless page stalker." I'm not sure about the "page stalker" part but "clueless" definitely fits. Here's what I wrote in the "What a circus thread": We've heard stories before that the Old Guard (Littman, Berchtold, Overdorf, and maybe a few others) viewed themselves as the heart of the team and weren't anxious to change things for a coach when we all know coaches come and go. According to TG, Marrone's beef was mostly with the Old Guard, not so much with Whaley. Rumor has it that Whaley himself has been frustrated with the Old Guard as he tries to change the organization. Polian was fired because he had conflict with the Old Guard, particularly Littman. And this shows you how powerful the Old Guard was. When Ralph had to choose between the guy who built the Bills into a SB contender or the Old Guard, he chose the Old Guard. Pegula needs to dismantle the Old Guard. And that's what he seems to be doing. Littman, probably seeing the writing on the wall, retired. None of the Old Guard will be involved in the HC interviews (contrary to initial reports). And none of the Old Guard will have any authority over our new coach who will report directly to the Pegulas. And these are just the first steps we've learned. I'm sure Pegula has an overarching strategic plan though he's still assessing things, too. Of course, he's not sharing the plan or the assessments with us. But his first moves are dropping some telling hints. I don't see a circus. I see hope. We've known for a long time (since Polian was wrongly fired, at least) that OBD needs to change. Now we see signs of change. It's about time.

Even then the Rooney Rule works because it gives the minority candidate invaluable interview experience even though the final decision was a foregone conclusion.

I'm sure all the candidates will articulate seemingly good plans for subordinate coaches. They know they'll be asked and they'll have canned answers. But how do you know which one will really deliver? That's one of the things I like about big name coaches. I'm not sure how many coaches out there want to work for Frank Reich or Adam Gase, for example. I do know that a lot of coaches would love to work with Bill Cowher or Tony Dungy. And a lot of players would love to play for them.

None of these top personnel guys (maybe Matt Millen excluded) are idiots. Certainly some are better than others but any GM knows more about football than you or me. Bobby Beathard thought highly of Casserly and made him his assistant GM. Does that make Beathard an idiot too? Together they won two Super Bowls. Let's see how many Super Bowls you can win with your most knowledgeable friend. Apparently you're smarter than Bobby Beathard who clearly judged Casserly as a non-idiot. Sports Illustrated, The Sporting News, USA Today, and PFW all voted Casserly "Executive of the Year" (or something equivalent) at one time or another. Were all these sportswriters paid off? They obviously didn't think he was an idiot. But you know more. Of course, all of Casserly's success was with the Skins. He failed miserable in Houston. It does make you wonder why he was so successful in DC and so bad in Texas. But it doesn't make him an idiot. Sorry if I sound preachy but it always strikes me as both arrogant and unkind to judge people as "idiots" when we don't have the knowledge to make such a judgment. Generally I think name-calling is resorting to 'short-man's syndrome.' We cut the legs off others to make ourselves feel better about our doubts in our own intellect or self-worth or whatever.

Most other OLs do a better job protecting their QBs and opening lanes for their RBs. Regardless of any theories about DLs, our OL needs to get better. That's my theory. And whatever challenges Hackett and Marrone may have faced, every team has shortcomings in talent. The question you have do ask about coaches: did they do the best they could with the hand they were dealt? On offense, many fans feel the answer was a resounding "NO."

Yeah, I won't pretend to know if EJ will ever be good. I don't think anyone can know that yet. Even the guys who do this kind of stuff for a living (GMs, scouts) aren't great at predicting which QBs will step up and which won't. But because we don't know if EJ will make it, we need to find sign the best FA QB out there or trade for the best QB on the trading block. And then draft a QB.

Sully's never actually worried about getting his facts right. I don't think he considers it part of his job. His job is to stir the pot.

I'm actually kind of intrigued by Reich. He clearly doesn't have a strong resume. He's only been a NFL coach for 7 years with only one unmemorable year as a coordinator. But over the years I've kept hearing positive things about his smarts and leadership. I can't remember who said it, but more than once I've heard "He'll be a head coach some day." So I don't think he's just the nostalgia choice. Some people in New York City are advocating for him for that vacancy and I don't think that's nostalgia. They don't care about his off-the-bench heroics for the Bills and he never did crap for them as a player. They see him as an up-and-coming coaching star. Then again, you can't ignore that he's only been an OC for one year and the results weren't impressive. I'd feel a lot better about Reich's candidacy if (1) I knew he'd retain Schwartz at DC, and (2) I knew he'd hire a dynamite OC.

For Schwartz to get another shot at being a HC (assuming that's his ambition), he needs redeem his reputation with success as a coordinator. What better place to do that than Buffalo? The players seem to like him. He knows how to use them. The Bills D has loads of talent. And Schwartz already had one good year here. Why not rack up 1 or 2 more good seasons as DC in Buffalo rather than rolling the dice somewhere else? Anyway, as has been noted, he's under contract.

We've heard stories before that the Old Guard (Littman, Berchtold, Overdorf, and maybe a few others) viewed themselves as the heart of the team and weren't anxious to change things for a coach when we all know coaches come and go. According to TG, Marrone's beef was mostly with the Old Guard, not so much with Whaley. Rumor has it that Whaley himself has been frustrated with the Old Guard as he tries to change the organization. Polian was fired because he had conflict with the Old Guard, particularly Littman. And this shows you how powerful the Old Guard was. When Ralph had to choose between the guy who built the Bills into a SB contender or the Old Guard, he chose the Old Guard. Pegula needs to dismantle the Old Guard. And that's what he seems to be doing. Littman, probably seeing the writing on the wall, retired. None of the Old Guard will be involved in the HC interviews (contrary to initial reports). And none of the Old Guard will have any authority over our new coach who will report directly to the Pegulas. And these are just the first steps we've learned. I'm sure Pegula has an overarching strategic plan though he's still assessing things, too. Of course, he's not sharing the plan or the assessments with us. But his first moves are dropping some telling hints. I don't see a circus. I see hope. We've known for a long time (since Polian was wrongly fired, at least) that OBD needs to change. Now we see signs of change. It's about time.